The 5th Benitel

I just think it's logical to presume he doesn't fancy him. I mean we've got a 20m supposedly creative attacking player and he's barely getting a kick when we go through 4 away games only having 6 shots. Even if he's not up to speed yet, surely if he thought he had something to offer he'd give me a run out in an attacking position where the players on the pitch are showing no potency whatsoever? I can understand him not starting every game but he doesn't seem to even want to risk him as a sub in tight games. Given he needs games to adjust to our league that says to me he doesn't believe he can cut it.

Surely if a foreign player needs time to adjust to our league the only way he can do it is through playing games? I think he's seen Aquilani just isn't suited to our league. I'm a firm believer that you need certain basic attributes to succeed over here and if a midfielder hasn't got pace or agression he's gonna struggle in midifeld. I can see him getting sold to an Italian team for about 12m in the summer.

I still dont buy that Venables and Thompson had a significantly worse childhood than hunderds, probably thousands, of kids in this city in the last 20-30 years. Bear in mind, they didn't just kill James Bulger they sadistically tortured him for a prolonged period. Doing things that wouldn't even occur to anyone of any age, let alone two young boys. I just dont see how anyone could be confident that they'd been fully rehabilitated more or less as soon as they hit adulthood. I read that release in those circumstances are made purely on public safety rather than the interests of the prisoner. How could they be sure that someone capable of the things they did would pose no threat after only 8 years?

I think we're effectively saying the same thing. We dont know what happened. The point we were trying to make is that people shouldn't look down others for their beliefs cos no one knows for definate. They are all exactly that: beliefs. It is futile to try and prove there's a God just as it is also futile to prove there isn't because no one knows anything for definate. Bear in mind i am the least religious person you could meet. I've only been in a church for my best friend's, a mate i used ti live with and then my girlfriend's sister's weddings. I just prefer to say 'i dont know' cos i dont see how anyone can say otherwise. And the Big Bang goes back to the same argument. How was there anything there to bang together in the first place?

I think the rational answer is that we understand the issue up to a point but beyond that we just dont know. It's not as simple as believers and non-believers. Believers in what? In the literal interpretation of the bible or of the possibility that there is more to our creation than we currently understand? The fact that you're talking about assertions shows there are no concrete facts that prove either end of the argument because the human race still does not understand the origins of the universe. It's pointless comparing who's got the most intelligent mates and who believes what. I recently saw a program about the first astronauts, who were all prodigiously intelligent men, and many of them became deeply religious after their flights. Mainly because having seen the Earth from that perspective they found it impossible to believe it was all a big cosmic accident. Does that make these ground breaking men any less intelligent? The simple answer is: we dont know how everything began. Until that changes you can only believe one way or the other.

The bit in bold is exactly the point i was making. It's evident the literal story in the bible isn't true but that doesn't mean there is no possiblity of the universe being created by something we have no current comprehension of. The other option is the one you mention of something enternal with no origin which would set it apart from everything else we currently understand. I'm not saying one is right and one is wrong, i'm saying i dont see how anyone can have a confident opinion either way when it's clearly something we are long way off to even beginning to fathom?

I'm going to break a self-imposed unwritten rule and agree with piscinin here. I had as religion-free an upbringing as possible growing up in our educational system and would describe myself as agnostic, following in the foot steps of my agnostic parents. While i dont believe in Chrisianity in the biblical sense i am aware that even with evolution or the big bang theory there has to be a point at the very beginning where something magically appears out of thin air. Which, as we all know, is a scientific impossibility. I cant believe in anything completely and i dont see how anyone can. The real, complete answer is currently way beyond human comprehension.

That's shit. Like you say, it wont last. There was a posh woman in there after the Blackburn match who asked for Rose wine and got looked at like she was mental by the bar woman. She asked what they had apart from beer and the woman said 'vodka'. She asked what mixers she had and she said 'orange cordial'. I love the solly. And well spotted to ther person who wrote the tag. That's kind of the whole point.

Eh? Have they renamed it? I love the solly. It's as basic as it gets and all the better for it.

I was surprised the news got out into the public eye like it did but then to keep it quiet they'd have to keep James Bulger's mum in the dark as well. If they had told her they couldn't reasonably expect her to keep her mouth shit in order to maintain the best interests of her 2 year old son's killer. It's been announced on the news he's been found with child porn but, when it was said he'd been drinking in Liverpool, I cant believe people on here are saying it's no big deal. Surely the fact he was in the city is enough? Surely the very least James' family can expect is to know they live nowhere near him? I could never believe they only got 8 years. A friend of mine did a psycology degree in LIverpool uni and they saw the actual case files as part of their course. It's not so much the fact the killed them, which is clearly horrific enough, it was the level of sadistic torture that poor child was subjected to. I dont buy into entirely blaming their upbringing either. I'm sure it was far from perfect but there will have been thousands of children who have grown up in much worse environments but none have committed the atrocities comparable to Venables and Thompson. How could the system presume to have cured them as soon as they got to adulthood?

I'd take 0-1 and at least two shots on goal in each half.

You cant block a public higway though. You'd have to arrange it with all the differnt council's and it;s not going to happen. If you can get enough numbers together to make an impact then there's no point spreading them so thinly no one is going to give a shit. It's good that you're having a go though. Right, i'm off.

I'm saying it would go un-noticed. Individually it's just a small group of fellas shouting for 10 mins before they get moved on by the police. The press wouldn't give a fuck and RBS customers wouldn't have a clue what was going on.

But the indiviudual impact would be so small it wouldn't matter. For all i know these protestors coould go to the sites we have down south but i wouldn't know cos there's only a handful of them so they just get fucked off. I also dont see what you'd be able to do? 99% of RBS customers outside of the city wont give a fuck about LFC.

You think 10 people outside a bank would make any difference to anything? It wont matter that there's a few across the country cos the individual acts wouldn't make enough of an impression to make the local news. We have more animal rights protestors outside my work each week cos they object to us using eggs and no one gives a fuck. It's good that you're coming up with ideas but not every suggestion is going to be valid. I certainly wont claim to have come up with anything that could make the neccessary impact.

Those scum bags from Crocky who gand raped a girl got mentioned and there was a thread about that lad from Huyton who got shot and the various twats who give this city a bad name regularly get mentioned. These are pricisely the kind of cunts who would hide behind the colour of their skin to say they're being persicuted whereas in reality they're just getting punished for acting like animals. If a section of the Somalian community are rallying around the scum bags who did this they are dickheads and should be treated as such. The same would go for anyone trying to condone the shooting of Rhys Jones.

Agger's got good positional sense but he's not great in the tackle and quite weak in the air. He shits out quite badly when he goes up for corners. He always ends up with his back turned to the ball.

It's amazing how you can have £250m worth of anything and make it as boring as our team is.

You are so cool.

I reckon most players would have great stats if the only played it 5 yards and the way they were facing.

No, I think doing something is better than nothing. If someone comes up with 'the right thing' i'd back it regardless of SoS's position. While it isn't perfect looking to educate the part of the fan base that can have the greatest effect is at least something positive. Unless there is another glaringly obvious idea out there doing something like this is the alternative to doing nothing. It's as simple as that. If you say dont do that but offer no alternative than the result of that is complete inactivity. Now that would be moronic. I dont know your suggestion but i'd be interested to hear it and same for anyone else cos i certainly haven't got any concrete ideas myself. And they're certainly not immune to critism, i've said i dont agree with some of the things that have happened but there's a difference between construtive critism and dismissing the only people actively doing something to change the situation. You're entitled to have your say as much as people are entitled to say it's easy to critise but a much, much harder to actually do something.

If people had known the true story behind the buy out there would have been more action. I'm not saying it would have achieved something but by getting told there would be no debt and that they would be building a new stadium, providing substatial personal investment etc they lied to us. All of which was backed up by DM and RP. And the posters are something that might educate some match going fans into what is actually happening and i can tell you for a fact a large proportion haven't got a clue. The mancs have got the issue in the public eye which is an important step. A lot can be achieved with media pressure and the mancs campaign has clearly been gathering pace recently. Whether it works remains to be seen but at least they're doing something. 'Doing something' being the important thing. Like a lot of other people you find it easy to say what you think doesn't work but i haven't read a single suggestion that will. It's easy to nitpick but a lot harder to come up with something constructive yourself. I haven't read one decent suggestion as to how to rid ourselves of the two cunts bar trusting Purslow to do it. Unless you can make a realistic suggestion i think we're better uniting behind the people who are actively trying to do something about the situation. Actions speak far louder than tapping critism into a keyboard. I dont think SoS are perfect but they're by far our best option at the moment. That's not to say i wouldn't back anyone else, far from it, but that something else would have to be more substantial than simply saying 'that's shit'.

When the yanks came in no one argued with it cos we were told by the club we were in safe hands. That's just a fact. We've believed what we were told by someone in authority. Based on that it's perfectly understandable why people would question anyone one else with power who claims to have the clubs best interests at heart. That includes him doing something genuinely positive to change the ownership situation. He might well be but we'd be stupid to sit back and put all of our faith in him. Purslow trying to correct what he actually said tells its own story. I brought the mancs into as an example of a supporters group having a positive and effective impact which is surely what we all want. As for something that works there are people dedicating time, effort and money to finding an effective way of doing something that works. Some of it has worked, some of it hasn't. Until someone comes up with a better idea that doesn't involve just sitting back and trusting a man who suddenly appeared and told us he's trying his best then they're our best hope. Saying 'that's shit' and then doing nothing yourself achieves the square root of fuck all.

It is believing what we got told that allowed the yanks in without any dissenting voices being heard. He may have been placed there by RBS but he is a LFC employee and therefore has to toe the party line. See the changes in the SoS interview for an example of that. You have pointed out the mancs green and gold campaign has built the platform for them having an impact on the future of the club. They have shown it can be done. The Tom Hicks Jnr incident, however minor in comparison, have shown that fans can have an impact. Posters are a stepping stone, parties are another matter. However, how did sitting back and doing nothing work for us and the mancs? How well has Purslow done in getting us sold so far? Why would SoS make any real difference on him doing his job if you're so convinced he'll do the right thing by us? How is putting all of our faith in someone no one had heard of up until a few months ago better than genuine match going fans actually trying to do something to safeguard to future of the club we love? No one is saying fuck Purslow off, it's just madness to put all of our eggs in that basket.