JustTosh

I don’t believe for one second anyone except Abramovich would buy a football club for any other than economical reasons. There are, however, several investment strategies available: You have the old-fashioned long term style, where you want to earn your money through the profit the business is generating every year. Then you have long term investors mainly looking for a long term price raise on their investment. In both cases you’ll have to make sure the business is well run. If not you’ll lose out. The worrying thing is the short term investors. They want in and out fast with as much profit as possible. Either by buying something too cheap and sell it on, or by ripping the business to pieces selling it off in parts. In neither case is taking care of business a priority. To our benefit an investor with a long term view would want us to succeed on the pitch, because that would be good for business. A short term investor wouldn’t worry about success other than absolute immediate success (qualifying for the CL last 16 this year). He would worry more about spending money. I really fear the Yanks’ ambition is to fill their pockets ASAP. They could ruin us in the process. If however, they’re denied to refinance they’ll be sweating. DIC could take advantage and take over with limited damage. Looks to me DIC wants in long term, so i prefer them to the yanks, I really do.

The link should be removed. If you want to know the truth, about Rush or any other truth, surely that link is not going to help.

Valid points made here. If you were investing in a business like Liverpool FC and had a long term plan you’d put the kitchen in to use your words. We have a club that’s been falling behind in many areas. A long term investor would like to do something about that. Let’s see what they’ve done or tried to do. Stadium: They’ve presented us with huge plans for the future, but then they say it’s too costly, and that new plans must be made. Result: Nobody’s put a shovel into the soil of Stanley Park. Big plans may very well have been a PR stunt only. And where’s the new plans we were supposed to see January 9th? Marketing: As far as I can see nothing’s been done to improve. Shop is worse than ever, merchandize being sold out and new not coming in. Where’s the marketing campaign you’d expect to see in Asia. Nothing’s being done. Nada. Team strengthening: They got us Torres and Babel. Net spending wasn’t much higher than previous years though, and we see now they planned to let the club pay for it anyway. One new player in this January window is a surprise, but I reckon Rafa’s got to find the money for that himself by selling Crouch and Momo. If the two don’t leave I’ll bet you Hicks would be furious. All in all there’s nothing suggesting the yanks are here long term, where as there’s plenty suggesting they want to make a fast profit short term. The two yanks are shitting where they shouldn’t have, now let’s hope it’s shit-eating time.

Maybe you’re spot on here, your figures being speculation of course. Maybe they did only have a short term interest in the first place. However, something didn’t go according to plan. The finance market and a very stubborn manaher who just won’t obey being obvious problems. The fact is they’ve borrowed a lot of money. To me they seem desperate to load that debt onto the club. If successful they’ll be home free. Maybe they won’t get the profit they wanted, but at least then they won’t have to take any loss. Then maybe Moores came along crying out “stop!”, more trouble. I think there’s at least some reason to hope they’re sweating. If they can’t get that refinance they’ll suffer. If they do our club will suffer.

Won't happen I'm afraid. There'll be full stadium and long lines in the shop, as allways. But not all is going to be like it uesd to be for the clowns. We’ve always liked to believe the roar of the Kop would put the fear into the opposition. Maybe the roar of the Kop at least would put a feel of discomfort into the two yanks. If they’re here for the Inter game, I believe they’ll be surprised by the hostility they’ll be met with.

7 or 8 months ago Tom Hicks could, if he wanted to, go into the Kop and have people come up and hug him. If he was on his own on the streets of Athens in May, he’d have 20.000 bodyguards dressed in red. Now, if he ever decides to go to Anfield on a match day again, he’d have to be very careful. He’ll need to have his bodyguards close to him. People would be shouting at him. Inside the stadium he’ll hear songs against him. Now that the PR campaign seems to be lost for him, maybe we’ll see the true Tom Hicks. He’ll end up hating us, so I can only hope his financial muscles are deflated and pray he won’t get that loan. Dear Rafa: We all know it’s unbearable, but hang on for a little while longer, please! You can lean on us.

On the day of !the Inter game. They'll be here for that one. Banners with "yanks out" and "Leave our stadium". Then some songs: Gillette and Hicks are full of shit Gillette and Hicks are full of shit They’re talking shit, shit and more shit Gillette and Hicks are full of shit. Followed by Raaaaafa, Rafael, Rafa, Rafael…. Maybe with some luck, you'd see them leave at half time. With the pair gone, we could turn the 0-2 result at half-time into a 4-2 win ("....I've got dreams and soongs to sing....").

Any price given by DIC would of course include the club’s debt. If Hicks was to take up a 300M loan and sell the next day, he’d get 300M less himself if he sold his shares. Dear "man-with-the most-gay-avatar-on-the-internet-ever". The point is: If Hicks can find somebody willing to refinance he'll ease the pressure. Whether he actually goes through with it or not isn’t that important. The fact that he can say “no-no” to the DIC’s and stick around a while longer would raise the price. I do believe you're right, however (or am I really only hoping?), that the yanks are having problems finding anyone. They might be forced to sell. If so DIC could more or less name the price themselves. But this is only speculation. A couple of months from now, maybe we'll know.

Could be both a and b. If he's able to refinance the pressure would not be there and the price would rise. So even if he wants out it makes sense to find someone willing to lend him the refinance cash. Apparently he's been quoted on saying the refinance bit is in place. The problem is nobody believes him, he's told too many lies. My bet is DIC’s waiting to call his bluff, and then wait more until he's forced to sell at the price DIC dictates. Here's for hoping anyway. Tom Hicks!: You're pissing on us now, be aware the upwind.

There's a lot of uncertainty about everything these days isn’t it?. First of all, are the yanks here next season? To me Rafa seems determined not to give up on no. 19. He really wants to achieve that goal. I think ambition means more than money to him. I might be naive, but I do believe Rafa would hate to leave now. As long as he’s having our support he’ll take the piss from above until they kick him out.

Do you know this for a fact or is it only an assumption?

I believe the yanks really thought Rafa would resign. I suppose they underestimated the affection Rafa's got for this club. Any normal man with integrity and pride who could probably pick any job he wanted, would leave. Then again they've not experienced how deep the passion and the soul is in Liverpool, the club and the city. They're pissing on Rafa. Much to their surprise he's taking it. He just wan't quit.

.....or the yanks are forced to sell as they can't find anyone to lend them the money the need. Maybe all rafa needs to do is to hang in there a little while longer.

Means absolutely nothing. If he wants out he isn’t going to say:”I want out, I really need to, I’m desperate to sell. Please give me a big price as I really need the money”.

If they're selling, would it benefit us if the price was low? I mean, would a low price suggest there's more money available for stadium and new players? I can see Rafa's conning plan now: This year's PL is fucked for us anyway. Let's lose some points and make next year’s CL an uncertainty. Then when we've shipped the yanks back, start winning again and have plenty for strengthening the team next year.

Rafa’s been the only one standing up for the club long enough. It’s time to help out. I bet the yanks’ll be over for the Inter game. Let’s have banners showing them how we feel. I.e.: Waldorf & Stattler! You can take our money, lye, put us in debt and steal from us. But you cannot have our souls! NOW, PLEASE LEAVE OUR STADIUM!

You didn't ask for Rafa signings or not, you said:" The squad would have been much stronger if he'd kept some of the players who won us the European Cup and made them the squad players as new big guns arrived to go into the first team." I'd prefer Garcia to Benayoun myself and Baros to Kuyt. Still, the players we have now are better than those we had 3 yeras ago IMO. Maybe you're right though, Rafa's been changing too much too fast.

Garcia or Benayoun? Dudek or Pepe? Hamann or Masch (who isn't ours btw)? Cisse or Torres? Baros or Kuyt? Traore or Arbeloa? Pongo or Babel? Some better, some worse?

I’d have to admit it’s a bit unfair just to mention Cisse/Diouf. To be fair Houllier made some good transfers too. I.e. Hyypia, and I agree with you Baros was a steal (wonder how he’d be playing together with Torres? Probably no worse than Kuyt who cost us £9M). My main point is that Rafa may have bought some players who couldn’t do the job for us. Somehow, however, he’s managed to sell them without a loss. From a financial point of view that’s quite good. He’s been helped of course by inflation, but on the other hand he’s sold only those who didn’t succeed. Normally that would lower the price.

Match report: Nail on the head - as usual. "don't think the current manager can do it even if he was given the funds": Don’t agree. We’ve seen time and again a team that’s been playing great football. Recently, our games against Portsmouth and ManCity were both very good. There’s a potential in the team. What we need is consistency. Given another 18 months and a good attacker/winger I think Rafa could do it

Absolute nonsense. The big corporations tend to see things over a much longer period than that. There are huge companies who are prepared to lose money 5-6 years or even more before they start earning. And I'm not talking about the dot.com period when some considered it unprofessional to talk about profit.

Those numbers mean absolutely nothing. Rafa sold Diouf, Rafa sold Cisse, but surely you don’t say he’s responsible for bringing them in. Houllier sold Fowler to Leeds for £8M. Would you give him credit for that? Amongst the players bought by Rafa (£126M) are the ones who’s still here! (Torres etc.) Here’s puzzle for you: You have two bananas in your hand. You put one of them in your fridge. How many bananas do you have now? I stand by what I said. The shite Houllier brought us has cost the club a lot. Those brought in by Rafa has been or could be sold without a loss, probably a profit.

Rafa’s been heavily criticized on this site for his transfers. Here’s some facts: Rafa: Josemi in £2M, traded with Kromkamp, Kromkamp sold £2M Morientes in £6M – sold £3M Gonzales in £1M – sold £4M Palleta in £2M – sold £2M Bellamy in £6M – sold £7,5M Then players that might be sold: Crouch, £7M – ManCity prepared to pay £10M? Carson, £1M – Villa prepared to pay £8M? Momo, £5,5M – Italians willing to pay £7-8M? Total: Lost money on some, gained on others. Looks like a small gain when Carson’s sold. Houllier: Diouf inn £10 M – sold £3,5M Cisse inn £14M – sold £6M I could go on with Cheyrou, gems etc., but there’s no need. The big signings (£10m+) brought in by Rafa who’s still here: Alonso £10,5M – worth every penny Babel £11M – looks very promising, too early to judge Torres £18M – Biggest bargain since Keegan? The point is: From a financial point of view, Houllier was a disaster. Rafa’s been doing quite well.

To me that was more down to desperation or even panic. Throwing in 2 strikers for 2 midfielders normally means you end up hoofing long balls as there’s no midfielder to give the ball to. Then when they defend the long ball there’s no one in midfield to pick up the loose ball. It’s simply much easier to defend. If you want to make a gamble, take off a defender. Or better yet, put together a team that ensures there’s no need to gamble.

I remember good’ol Clemence complain about having nothing to do. Lousy keeper, hardly made a save. IMHO Pepe’s the best keeper we’ve had since Clem.