JustTosh

Hello. Although I’m not the most active user on this forum, I’d like to welcome you. Your post sounds genuinely well meant. Before I speak let me join you in paying respect to the 39 who tragically lost their lives on that terrible night. Shame on whoever uses their names to simply mock another group of fans. The fact that Liverpool fans very largely responsible for their deaths fills me with sorrow and shame. The names of the victims should be honoured. May they all rest in peace. It’s a fact, I’m afraid, that some very stupid people wearing our proud red shirt, were to blame for what happened, Normally, if speaking to a Juve fan. I’d leave it at that. With my head bowed I’d accept responsibility, as everything else might be interpreted as lack of respect for the victims or not accepting responsibility. However, since you’re seeking discussion, one should admit to the fact that there was more than one factors leading to the tragedy. It seems to me nobody wants to accept there was, and is more than happy blaming us. That’s understandable I suppose, but it saddens me a bit nobody wants to have a broader look at what happened. Here’s also what happened. The year before in 1984 we played the final in Rome against another Italian team (FC Roma). No less than 40 Liverpool supporters were hospitalized after being stabbed by Roma “fans”. To the average Liverpudlian it felt like every Italian fan was armed with a blade before going to a game of football. I actually understand those saying: “Not again without defending ourselves!” The atmosphere before Heysel was hostile. When your blood is boiling from insulin, there’s a thin line I’m afraid between defending and actually charging yourself. I’m not defending their actions mind. Liverpool FC knew about the bad feelings Liverpool fans had towards the Italian fans. They repeatedly warned UEFA about the lack of security at Heysel in general and asked UEFA at least to make sure to keep our fans separated. UEFA ignored every warning and put Juventus and Liverpool supporters on the same terraces. They didn’t make sure the policing was at an acceptable level either. Apart from being ridiculously few, the Belgian police proved to be useless, and more concerned about their own security than the security of the public. Nobody, certainly not UEFA, accepts the fact their decisions put innocent spectator’s lives at risk. They, as well as the rest of the world, seem to be more than happy blaming us, Liverpool fans in general. 1985 was the age of hooliganism and every club had their rotten eggs. I’ve seen pictures of Juve fans too, armed and with heir faces covered, pictures taken on the very same night. We didn’t have a situation were savage Liverpool fans suddenly and unprovoked attacked innocent Italians. No, both our lot and yours should share responsibility for the riot to burst out in the first place. I wish more people would show more interest in accepting the broader truth, but I don’t want to let you have the impression I’m trying to avoid blame. Our “fans” were largely responsible, and I repeat I bow my head in shame for that fact. In respect of the 39 victims. RIP

I wonder. When we have a corner do our players know before it’s kicked whether it’s going to be aimed near post, far post, towards the penalty spot, being a short corner or whatever? Do they know? And if not, why on earth not? I don’t know much about American football, the gay sport. But before each play they huddle up. I’ve been told it’s not just to hug each other they do that, they actually plan their next move. Everyone in the team knows, their opponents don’t – advantage attacking team. Obviously we’d have an advantage if all our players knew in beforehand where the corner was going to be aimed. Well, do we know or don’t we?

The Gerrard taking corners issue annoys me almost as much at the brain dead decision to pull everyone back when we defend corners. Pepe’s ability to start attacks is well known to everyone, no keeper in the world is better at it. Torres up there to receive his kick or throw, now that’s a frightening thought. I bet our opposition wouldn’t like that one bit. Pissing in their pants they would. They’d have to leave at least two players up there with him, still wetting themselves. And why the fukc don’t we practice set pieces on training? Why the fukc do our own set pieces seem to surprise our players more than the other team?

I’m not in the “Rafa out” gang. There’s no better alternative available for us me thinks. His stubbornness pisses me off big time though. His decision, surely it is his decision or at least it should be, to let Gerrard take our corners reminds me of Houllier’s decision to continually let Owen take our penalties. Don’t think any of them are on drugs leaving me with only one diagnose: Minor brain damage

1. Mascherano 2. Benayoun 3. Insua

1. Mascherano 2. Agger 3. Torres

How easy it is to fool our club or whoever is planning this mosaic. Why not change it to: "Over the past 24 1/2 years a mutual friendship and respect has developed between the supporters of Liverpool and Fiorentina.". This mosaic simply must not happen.

Masch Agger NGog

Reina Masch Insua

We borrow 300M £ we could’ve used to start build a stadium. We don’t, actually we don’t invest any of it. So now we take our running profits of 20M a year to pay off 30M a year interest, spend nothing on transfers, expect to still be top 4, and start saving up for a new stadium. Brilliant, give this man a Nobel Price in economy. Toss in the maths price as well.

Arsenal took their borrowed money, together with some they made available through profits, and used it all on a new stadium. How I wish we were heading down that path. Well, surprise mate, we’re not.

Short term. Not that bad, really Medium term. Depends on whether we qualify for the CL and whether we're able to keep our key players. Looks shaky to me, not good at all. Long term. Looks bad, no new stadium, no investment in the team, really bad indeed.

New stadium. As far away today as it was 5 years ago isn’t it? Or do you know something I don’t? Success on the field. 5 years ago we brought in a new manager to rebuild our team. We instantly got better in Europe. That season 5 years ago, with luck on our side, we won the Champions League. Now our manager has had his time to rebuild. Yet, we’re now experiencing our worst start of the season for more than 40 years. Progress? What have I missed? New commercial deals. Following Moores and Parry it was technically impossible not to improve. Apart from a new shirt deal, I do fail to see, however, what we’ve really achieved. But OK, there might be progress somewhere. We’re still miles behind our competitors though. You're on very thin ice mate. As far as confusion cash flow/profits is concerned let me assure you: There’s no confusion. Cash flow is obviously lower now with the interest we’re paying for the new loans. The problem is there’s absolutely no reason to argue that those loans could help increase our future profits, or more likely decrease our future deficits.

Sorry, but I don’t believe you believe your own crap. It’s too obvious. Surely you have some kind of agenda. We all know the basic facts: Moores sold us out to a couple of guys who wanted to make a nice little profit for themselves. So far I must say they’re doing quite OK. They have burdened the club with a 300M £ loan, giving the money back to themselves to pay for the purchase. In effect they’ve not paid a penny for the club, the club has paid for it itself. Smart asses those two suckers, I’d have to agree with you on that. We, the club and it’s fans, are now suffering from that burden. It shouldn’t surprise you much to learn we’re not particularly exited about that fact. If only I could believe that. Well it's worth a try I suppose. Hey listen, mate; there’s a club just 40 miles east of Liverpool that’s really close to fucking rule the world. There’s every chance they’ll stay way ahead of us poor bastards for years to come. May I suggest you take the short trip. You’d love it there, and we wouldn’t miss you – a masterstroke!

I have never in my life seen a better tackler than Masch. When he goes have no doubt, we’ll miss him. You don’t know what you’ve got till it’s gone.

Hey Chicago red, here's a song for you. Cement yourself in the middle of the Kop and start singing from the top of your lungs: I'm a Yankee Doodle Dandy A Yankee Doodle, do or die A real live nephew of my uncle Sam's Born on the Fourth of July I've got a Yankee Doodle sweetheart She's my Yankee Doodle joy Yankee Doodle came to London Just to ride the ponies I am a Yankee Doodle boy I'm the kid that's all the candy I'm a Yankee Doodle Dandy I'm glad I am So's Uncle Sam I'm a real live Yankee Doodle Made my name and fame and boodle Just like Mister Doodle did By riding on a pony I love to listen to the Dixey strain "I long to see the girl I left behind me" And that ain't a josh She's a Yankee, by gosh Oh, say can you see Anything about a Yankee that's a phoney?

Just trying to stay constructive. We’re in deep shit because of him. However, if we cut off his pee-wee and forced him to eat it, we’d still be in exactly the same shit. I just don’t like wasting my energy. Not that I have the power to do anything anyway. So maybe you’re right after all, we might as well chop it off. If nothing else it could be fun.

No point targeting Moores. You can despise him all you want. If you live longer than him you can go every Sunday and piss on his grave. Sorry, won’t help us one lousy bit. Moores’ fuck up can’t be reversed. Getting rid of the fatty and the turd, that’s what it’s all about.

I myself live with a mortgage, because I bought a house. Had Liverpool FC borrowed money to build a new house (stadium), I’d have to agree with you. What I’d like you to explain to me is: How can it be a good thing piling up debt and spend it on absolutely nothing. 4 years ago Liverpool FC had the same assets as today and was 40M in debt. Now we’re more than 300M in debt. Please tell me; in what way is that beneficial to us. And please don’t start with Torres.

Alonso: One of the best midfielders in the world. Superb distribution, calm and secure on the ball. He was sold, do we miss him? You bet we do! Mascherano: One of the best midfielders in the world. IMO THE best defensively. Nobody’s better at braking up opposition play. He’s the best tackler I’ve ever seen. If he’s sold, would we miss him? You bet we would! From a football point of view selling Alonso or Mascherano is pure madness. If you on the other hand is more interested in transfer fees, failing to see how much it would hurt us, selling might be seen as good business. If Masch’s sold, I’m not going to expect any expensive replacement. I’ll hold the yankee rats responsible for our forthcoming decline. Together with Moores of course, who let the rats into the house.

Minimum requirements: To get rid of Waldorf & Statler. Nothing else matters. As for your choices, any of the five for me.

Only player ever to have scored in the same final on two seperate days. 1st goal May 25th, 2nd goal May 26th.

1. Johnson 2. Masch 3. Lucas

This is not a go at Rafa. Some of these players have been sold at good prices. But I’ve tried put together a team of players not wanted by Rafa who’re still playing somewhere else. How would this team do against our current side? Baros Crouch Garcia Alonso Sissoko Bellamy Riise Hobbs Hyypia Arbeloa Dudek Subs: Carson Warnock Cisse Keane Guthrie Pongolle

OK, I stand corrected. But it feels like they've beaten us twice. Bet the Lyon fans feel the same way.