magicrat

Last best chance it doesn't get voted through but any fairth I have in MP's doing the right thing for their country and sending this back for a second look has long evaporated

I don't think the European parliament will consider our domestic legal niceties once clause 50 is invoked. Clock will start It's critical any challenge is made before the trigger is pulled.

Two dimensions to this Chinese imports in Europe. Not the huge factor or massive volumes that the Europeans claim. Certainly not now they have run a dirty tricks campaign to convince users not to buy Chinese saying its inferior when in most cases the contrary is true. Look at 2015 volumes and you'll see a massive reduction due to dumping cases being brought in to block imports.. After the USA the EU steel industry is the most heavily protected in the world .Their gripe is that they can't compete with China in third markets. Both regions have massive over capacity so have to sell into developing markets. Frankly I don't have a lot of sympathy with them. Cut back production and stop loss making export sales The Chinese are trying to do that but the Europeans are incapable of getting past the political issues of closing outdated steel plants .

As do I Umanna is a shrewd political animal , very ambitious. He's kept a very low profile whilst the shit has been flying around.

A bad dream I had whilst wide awake watching the referendum results

I don't think I would find it impossible to dislike Michael Gove

The veil has been lifted on the whole political class to reveal a vipers nest of avaricious self serving cunts . Murdoch and his ilk are the ringmasters of this grotesque parody of democracy whilst in the background the country is in flames . All this played out to a deafening rendition of " The Road to Hell" .

They are dreadful especially in places like Spain and is why we have such a high population from the EU atm I am no champion for the EU but remaining was the least worse option and why risk losing employment here when there is a massive pool of labour across the channel ready and waiting ?

They're just UKIP lite Farage is the antichrist

This is just wrong mate but I am not going to write a long rebutal Chinese subsidies are a fallacy . They get a partial VAT rebate on exports but European producers get a full rebate There is without doubt Global over capacity . In Europe as well and low prices in the price has been on the floor as result. US is protected largely as is Europe now with a series of dumping cases . The main problem in Europe is over capacity and the inability of the member countries to shut down plant as its such a political minefield. The Chinese government don't want to export steel to Europe anyway. They are not encouraging producers their to sell here, on the contrary they are looking to phase out old Mills but remember its not all state owned any longer and its not something that can be done at the drop of a hat, China wants to sell us cars and washing machines not steel which is a piddling amount in relation to their overall production, Just more disinformation and finger pointing

Laugh at the unemployment figures in a years time Mr Smug

Its a scare story but we do need good relations with Turkey because of the buffer zone they provide with ME. There will be no flood of Turkish immigrants though, Interesting that the survey done during the campaign polled about 2000 Turkish males and asked them if they joined to the EU would they consider working in the UK . Based on the answers the headlines became 11 million Turks are on their way. Mr Angry in Barnsley suddenly shaking his fist at the thought and the fact that some Pakistani down the road got a job he never bothered to apply for.

yes and US consumers pay more for their goods as a result but that's OK because the US doesn't need to re-export cars, washing machines, ships etc.. Its a choice basically they can make and we can't. There is no sensible protectionist solution to Port Talbot. Its a dead duck

Most of it in products Tata don't produce. And most of that only replaced other origins such as Turkey And in 2015 the total was a fraction of that because of Brussels ( note EU) dumping cases . Trumped up most of them but that's another story Chinese steel killing the UK domestic industry through flooding our market with cheap imports is a convenient lie. The other lie is high energy costs . Yes it is higher than in other European countries but it adds a couple of dollars pmt to the cost and whilst that's important its not killing them, What kills them is importing Iron Ore, melting it in South Wales, transporting it up to places like Scunthorpe to be rolled and then back to South Wales to be coated and they have done that they have to export about half of it because there isn't not a big enough market in the UK to sell it .. Oh and perhaps you would like to know Tata themselves are buying large quantities of Chinese coated material because its cheaper than they can make it themselves and has allowed them to mothball plant in Shotton.. That's how inefficient and duplicitous they are. Port Talbot is dead in the water following Brexit although to be fair it had no chance before then other than some subsidised deal to a.Russian backed "investor" which would see it closed in a few years anyway . In case you were wondering I do not work in the steel industry but I worked with a few people that do . Some very close contacts still.,. anyway most of the info is in the public domain as you found with import stats. They just need to be looked at in context of what Tata make and what other countries sell here. like most things these days its a mine of disinformation and spin . Bit like referendums and our political system actually,

Drives me nuts this cunt. Minute we have a decent player that wants to fuck off he's on the first train out of Lime St but if we wan't rid of some fucking headbanger wage thief we can do fuck all . Now West Ham are better than us and have a manager that isn't addicted to Ginsters pasties we can't even dump the tool on them.

De-selection is no quick fix and a weapon of last resort This will not end in Corbyn's favour irrespective of the wrongs and and rights of the whole sorry affair

That was a classic Sad loss and Farage still walks the earth

The world has changed since PT was built when it enjoyed its heyday in the 50's and 60's during the post war construction boom We can't support a blast furnace plant in the UK. At least not without huge public subsidy . There are large quantities of Steel coming form the EU. Its a two way flow but much of the customer base for EU material is their own service centres or European car makers . Tata do not own large chunks of downstream capacity or end users and any sort of trade war is not going to benefit them ; quite the contrary, manufacturing will be moved over the channel and they will export the finished goods. The losers will be British jobs and consumers who will pay more for the finished products if tariffs are imposed, Modern Steel mills in China produce 20-30 million tonnes and have a huge domestic market to sell it into Tata are forrced to export

This true and most of the Steel coming Tata doesn't produce anyway What did come was mainly reinforcing bar which is now anti dumped, Steel imports form outside the EU are all governed by WTO rules which the UK is fully on board with. As we make our living trading it would be suicide to start putting up trade barriers in defiance of WTO and anyway whilst we are in the EU we cannot legally do so The EU is far more protectionist that the UK individually and our domestic industry benefits form a plethora of anti dumping duties and safeguard measures. The problem is the size of the market and the structure of Tata steels plants as I said in my post above

Port Tabots problem is that it does not have a big enough domestic market for its product and the steel is transported around the UK and Scotland to finishing Mills with all the logistical costs involved. Modern integrated mills making steel from iron ore are 20-30 m tonnes per annum and usually situated on one site with port and rail facilities, The UK total consumption is only 13/14 m tonnes so Tata have to export half of what they produce. On export markets they inevitably come up against China and India with much better, lower cost producers. Its a fallacy that Chinese steel imports into the UK have caused the demise of the domestic Industry. Most of what has come in is not even products that Tata produce. There is no viable future for an integrated Mill in the UK. Too smaller domestic market, imported raw materials and expensive energy and labour. Scrap based technology is way to go as we export loads of scrap instead of using it ourselves. I see no possibility that Port Talbot has a future doing what it does and if if finds a buyer it will be a subsidised deal to kick the can down the road ( like the slab plant at Teeside which was recently closed by its Thai owners ). Brexit will exasperate their problem without doubt because their main export market is the EU where they have alledgedly have cosy deals with the European producers

It does make a difference actually. If Brexit goes ahead then May will have a slightly better chance of not getting arse raped by half of Europe, Gove looks like an arse raped Thunderbirds puppet already and the other bird , name a escapes me , is a complete unknown seems to be in with a chance because she was heavily for Brexit ( what could go wrong there , bitch fight with Merkel maybe ) . Crabbe hate gays or something I heard and Fox just shows up at every election for a wheeze.

I read the topic as "Wanker at Work". Something that should be tatooed on Farage's forehead

Yes but whats's your point.? Referendums are not binding on Parliament and given the greater clarity of the likely consequences of leaving now plus some of the wild claims (on both sides to be fair) why should the public not be asked "are you sure you want do do this ? " before pressing the button. Its their fucking job to act in the best interests of the people and sometimes that doesn't coincide with what people say they want. Throw them out if you don't like what they do. That's what elections are for but don't allow MP's to pass the buck and ask the public to make ill informed decisions an do their jobs for them . What is problem with catching breath and asking people to just be sure of what they're doing here ? The other dimension is the fact that older people , my demographic actually, voted heavily to leave. Should they be taking monumental decisions that will affect their children and grandchildren just because younger people are not engaged in politics to the same degree ? Its generally the fault of older people that control the majority of the wealth in this country and have the best deal in terms of public expenditure with their triple lock pensions and most use of the NHS that are the reason younger people are not engaged anyway and did note vote. There will be very heavy price to pay if Brexit is pushed through make no mistake. Not just in short term economic pain but in social cohesion when a generation realises its future has been stolen and crushed by a handful of avaricious cunts in power aided by millions of elderly sheep that have been duped by their xenophobic lies . So revel in your pyrrhic victory for this gross caricature of democracy in action .

We elect governments to take decisions . Referendums are advisory and MPs can choose to deem the decision not in the people's best interest Please don't start saying the people know what's best because in the case of the EU the vast majority of the population have vetry little idea of what it does or how it operates This needs a second look and probably another vote . It should never have been referred to a referendum by Cameron who merely wanted to stifle UKIP and the right wing loons. If any party wants to take us out of the EU they should seek a mandate at a General election not this.

This one must a be sleeper cell