Cantrell20

I will leave the whole situation free of judgement, time will tell, wouldn't like to offend Carragher with fake accusations. Still, can't blindly accept every single action of Jamie, no one is immune to criticism. Same happens with club sources, who aren't only Rafa fanboys and usually boast more objectivity than typical RAWKists praying at Benitez altar. Quite a few people are spreading the rumours about Carragher now, which is still rumour and nothing more, but there were also many joining the media bandwagon (usually galvanised by Chris Bascombe, author of Jamie's autobiorgaphy btw) saying Rafa lost the dressing room. It's also yet unproven, same as hilarious talk Torres would leave provided Rafa stayed at the club. I found out on Atletico Madrid Spanish forum an ITK (credible with team line-ups), that Torres never wanted Benitez gone, although he wasn't his fan in the mould of Kuyt, Reina and Mascherano. Still, there was a lot talk about "lost dressing room". Babel and Riera definitely fell out with Rafa, but credit to Ryan, Sneijder revealed, that Babel considered Rafa a great coach and he even called him during the World Cup quite a few times. Benayoun problem started actually in May, earlier in the season he admitted his respect and even once admiration for Benitez. So it's hard to think of many disenchanted players and threatening to leave, definitely less than now. Rafa is a poor man mananger, but the issue was overhyped in the media, by Bascombe mostly.

San Don What would be the point of looking for a revenge? I wanted Benitez gone provided we got a superior manager and as I clearly emphasised, what you probably missed with your Carragher attorney glasses, I don't follow RAWK, don't like it and always had big respect for Jamie Carragher. It's funny when you speak of vendetta and blastt RAWK and Twitter without basic ability to read and understand what you read. I delibreately outlined, that I meant credible ITKs, mostly neutrals on Rafa, including some lads, who couldn't stand the man. And as much as you can't properly read, you use your imagination and suggest I'll have a go with other key figures. Made me chuckle.

I chatted with Carragher family neighbour, taxi driver by the way, and managed to have a word with Phil Carragher if I remember correctly, apparently Jamie's dad. I wouldn't even call it a chat, lasted for 2-3 minutes only, but noticeable after 10 seconds, how much he hated Rafael Benitez.

I don't want to provide you with quite big load of proofs or half-proofs, that he could have taken part in it, because you seem fireproof for any criticism for Carra in this area. It's not the question of his contract, it's a minor thing, but there are at least 53 incidents, which I managed to enlist in my copy book, that speak volumes. It could be right, could be wrong. I also believed in Carragher lasting innocence and rejected all this talk as rubbish until I started to think retrospectively of the scenario that seems possible or even probable now. There are countless ITK, not only self-confessed ones, but the ones on twitter or RAWK (not my favourite place), who get the squad and all the transfer well ahead of them taking place, who say it was Carra who wanted Rafa gone and orchestrated it. Explains all the dressing room problems we've been having for last 4-5 months.

Trucker Paddy You made a name for himself on these boards twisting facts to serves your agenda, but for your own mental sake get your act together and stop kidding yourself, because you become a main victim of your own cheats:) Jovanovic earns around 50-55 per week according to Serbian press and his own declarings in Serbain tv. Maxi is on 70 grands a week, had to take a pay cut to come here, no signing on a fee apparently. Konchesky deserves a mention, even though he's not Benitez signing. don't you think? Gets more than twice Insua earned, already to blame for 4 goals we conceded, even last year, when Insua was below average and was finding his feet in the league, Konchesky had less successful tackles and interceptions completion. Konchesky managed 4 assists in 3 years, Insua 6 in one year. We wasted 7 million on Konchesky, including his annual salary. It's more than on Aquilani, at least we can recoup some of cash invested in him, while Konchesky signing and Insua departure were utterly pointless.

I have no problem with admitting my own failures and contrary to what you might conclude, I'm no Rafa fan and wanted him gone. If you think, that finding one mistake and unresearched information in the whole quite a big post I would say is enough to label it as "nonsense", then congratulations. I struggle to imagine you finding any more false data in the first one and can't see you even skimming or getting the gist of the second one. Unlike you, I'm always open to debate and can admit my own mistakes, what I'll willingly do, just in case you make an effort to make some contructive criticism. Sorry for poor English, I come from Poland.

True, I was mistaken, thought of 10 games into the season, not twelve. My mistake then.

Thanks to Ged departure and appointment at Lyon a year later I got very into French footy, now I follow Serie A and can draw many funny conclusions. One of them, Andrea Dossena is among three highest rated wing-backs in the league. Second, Alberto Aquilani is a tremendous talent. So far this season only Hernanes made a bigger impression on me, Pastore and Ljajic still have plenty to prove. Aquilani was so far chosen 4 times man of the match in which he took part in, not bad for a player who missed several games at the beginning of the season, is it? Alberto Aquilani V Roma 13 11 2010 Football Video by MilanKakaBaros

Tell me when I'm wrong and when spinned the facts to serve my agenda. I do admit, I drank a few bevvies, around 6-7, but still can press enter, so will keep on enlightening our "knowledgeable" fanbase. Pick up some stuff from my post and we will discuss it then. Cheers

Alonso debate is pointless. No one is untouchable in the team and Alonso was struggling fot one year to say the least, I would even say that his decline started in 2006. The idea of replacing him with Gareth Barry was pointless and unjustified. Some Spanish journalists say, that Rafa wanted to replace Alonso with Barry and then buy Silva instead of Riera (according to Valencian Superdeporte newspaper the deal was all but done), but it doesn't justify poor aquisition that Barry would certainly turn out to be. What many people forget about is Rafa wanted to sell Alonso in 2008, not 2009. Alonso wasn't forced out of the club, he left virtually handing in a transfer request. If there was no offer from Real Madrid, I doubt he would ever leave. Just a new challenge. I can't remember that many on these boards complaining on the idea of selling Alonso in 2008. He raised his game in last season for the club and was fantastic back then, but was nowhere near this level excrpt for his first season here. Blaming Rafa for selling Alonso is pointless, as Alonso wished to leave in 2009, not Rafa wanted him out. As Italian press recently reported, Rafa wanted to sign TWO PLAYERS TO REPLACE ALONSO. Never wanted to buy solely Aquilani, even though, as talented player as he is, his aquisition was poot at the time. Still, Stevan Jovetic was lined up then, available for 12 million pounds, worth around twice that now. Just like Alves, Ramsey, Ljajic, Vidic, Pato, Higuain and Aguero. Blaming Rafa for sale of Alonso (few of his slaters mention, that he was the one who actually signed him) is as ridiculous as blaming Benitez for Benayoun departure. Benayoun was fed up with the coach, fair enough. So why did he leave if Rafa was not here anymore? He just got the better offer. Just like Alonso. It's more difficult to have long lasting servants as Hamann and Hyypia under Rafa, because simply, Rafa players were wanted by bigger clubs than Liverpool now. Arbeloa and Benayoun are unique in this group, as I can't recall a SINGLE player signed by Ged from a relegation fodder who turned out to be good enough to play for a better team than Liverpool. Aquilani to Juventus (second best midfielder in the league according to La Gazzetta Dello Sport now), Mascherano to Barca, Benny Onion to Chelsea. With Johnson, Torres, Kuyt, Reina, Skrtel, Agger also on the radar of other top clubs. Not to mention Arbeloa and Alonso, signed from mediocre Spanish teams and playing for Real Madrid now, just 1.5 year ago being Livepool players. Indeed, poor team Rafa left. Just imagine how many we could sell to big clubs in 2004.

Juan Galonso At the same stage two seasons ago Mourinho was seating 4th at the table, last year after similar run of games he was behind the leaders as well - they occupied 3rd spot back then. The whole talk of Milito is ridiculous - he's been injured throughout the wole campaign so far, today sub was forced by injury. Funny thing, not many people focus on Eto'o, who already scored more goals than all last season combined. Moratti said so far this season, that Rafa job is much harder than the one of Mourinho, because the oldest team of Serie A, the oldest one, that has ever graced a Milan derby, hasn't got the hunger of last season and is already fullfilled. In addition, and I'm not kidding now, Inter situation in terms of injuries resembles Liverpool of last season. Spanish medical staff, which joined Benitez from Liverpool, is already strongly critisiced. Rafa main sin tends to be stubborness and unfortunately he keeps making schoolboy mistakes in the area of injuries. Against Lecce and Brescia Inter had all their central midfielders injured. ALL OF THEM. Sneijder, Muntari, Mariga, Cambiasso, Stankovic and Motta. Even Zanetti gets injured frequently, like against Palermo, under Rafa. Pandev and Milito were virtually sidelined for two months. Sneijder and Milito are healthy now, but they play through the pain barrier and against medical advice. Maicon injured as well, Samuel out till the end of the season. even first choice goalie is on sidelines. What's more, Benitez has to stick to Zanetti and two teenagers in the middle, which is laughable, when you think of the quality they have in the centre of the park. I read Arrigo Sacchi column in Gazzetta, Luigi Simoni interviews, Jamies Horncastle column in football-italia.net - all of them say Inter face an unprecedented amount of injuries, bigger than any other club in the league. Inter are weaker than one year ago - less hunger, much more injuries (Sneijder anemia to make the matters worse), loss of subs like Quaresma or Balotelli and face stronger Milan, which invested in the summer, Boateng, Ibrahimovic and Robinho being marquee signings. We'll see how Rafa will turn it around and if he is given a chance, so far he is underachieving in the league, but doing much better in the Champions League than his predecessor. Mourinho had serious problems with progressing out of the group stages in two consecutive years, including loss to Panathinaikos at San Siro two years ago. Twice he saved his job and he was under real scrutiny back then - Moratti pointed out, that Jose had some money to invest. Rafa hasn't. Jose, apart from doing a brilliant job at Inter, splashed over 50 million on Mancini, Muntari,Quaresma and Obinna. Already Rafa scored more than 3 goals in the Champions League 2, Mourinho has never done it at Inter, only once at Chelsea. Rafa has done it 6 times in last 6 years, six times more than Mourinho then. His games against Werder and Tottenham (mostly first half) were named among 3 best of Italian footy in Europe in last 5 years. 3 of 4 best results in terms of most passes in the build up before scoring a goal belong to Inter this season, including absolutely sensational 34 ahead of Stankovic goal vs Spurs (Argentina had "only" 25 in World Cup 2006, Barca record this season is 18 ). Rafa is struggling a bit, no matter what RAWKists say, he isn't Mourinho, but he deals with quite many circumstances, like countless injuries, stronger Milan and Juve, which invested around 60 million pounds in the summer, with far better coaches than Leonardo and Ferrara now, than Mourinho had to in his final season. In the second round of last season Inter were doing even worse than now and won the title on the final day of the season, so all in garden wasn't roses. Still, Rafa has to raise his coaching skills to maintain Inter job.

Don't forget FA Cup tie and Community Shield. If you take their cup head-to-head stats into account, it's 80% won by Rafa, provided we take CL ties as one game. FA Cup semi took place at Old Toilet as far as I remembet, while Community Shield game was played in Cardiff. So it's not only the question of playing in front of the own crowd, even though it has a grain of truth, as we progressed to to CL finals only when we had a second leg at home, two other times were unsuccessfull at Stamford Bridge.

We signed Poulsen for 12 million less. Aquilani never cost 20 million pounds and what's more his deal was structured, so that we pay money every 6 months, not paid straight away.

He was 3rd fastest player in Rome, had pace in abundance comparing to Alonso and was also considered a quick playmaker with a decent counter-attacking dimension a la D'Allessandro, Nasri or Pastore.

He's on 70 000 a week according to Argie and Spanish press. That's the fact, the word your coaching hero likes:) But as you raised the issue of wagebill, I guess you know wagebill tends to reflect the leading teams position in the table to a degree of 92%. What's more, Liverpool under Rafa had a wage structure lower than Arsenal on numerous occassions, averaging 3-4th in the league, 5th right now, 4th according to some other sources. If you combine wagelist and transfer Kitty, Fergie outspent Rafa easily. Not to mention Mancs' stabilised youth set-up, providing them with many talented youngsters, which is biggest Rafa legacy and heritage he left. Developing young talent can save you money in the market and enables you to boost your kitty, something we've recently started selling the likes of Michaylov and San Jose, both for well over 4 mln pounds.

How can you include Owen in Ged heritage and exclude Benny Onion from the side Rafa left? Vicious circle with you. Rafa might mismanaged him and I would even put my penny on that, but unlike with Ged, Rafa bought some players from average clubs and sold to the world-class ones. Arbeloa and Benayoun being good examples. Benayoun didn't want to stay anyway, if he had a bust-up with the coach and nothing more, he would stay just like Babel. But he left before the new manager was appointed, so Rafa might accelerate his move, but that was totally Benny decision.

Sure, in 2004 we could easily sell any member of our first eleven to a European big fish or a reigning champions in major leagues, as we did with Benayoun and Mascherano. Kuyt, Reina, Torres, Johnson, Skrtel, Agger had quite a few offers throughout the summer. I can't imagine anyone apart from Owen leaving for a European giant then, with the exception of Gerrard of course. To say that a side getting 60 points in the unbalanced weak league and expectedly knocked out in 1/8 phase of UEFA Cup is stronger than the one reaching 63 points and very embarassing and disappointing semis in the same competition, knocked out due to silly ref decision disallowing Benayoun vital away goal, is just madness. Not to mention, that Ged side amassed around 63-65 points a year earlier, while Rafa team made it 86 points. What's more, the side Rafa left accomplished CL quarters a year earlier, only 4th highest result in the competition, while Ged one was knocked out in the group stages. I accept your narrow-mindedness and lack of common sence as a fact (you might not like the word in Rafa's mouth), but please, enlighten me, how is this side the worst we had in fifty years? Any justification will be welcome. I advise you to visit Jamie Wankwa Liverpool-Kop blog, might be useful to invent some stories.

In 2 of his 6 seasons in England he topped the table of most prolific managers in terms of substitution and taking twists to the game thanks to perfectly timed new players introductions on the field. His subs scored 50 goals in 3.5 years, don't if it accounts only for the league though, while Houller made 40 goalscoring subs in 5.5 years. Rafa definitely lost the plot at the end, confused his die-hards with silly subs and unjustified decisions, but even Evertonians used to give credit for great subs in the past in L'Pool Echo. And compared them with Moyes, who couldn't orchestrate a succesful comeback in well over 50 games.

That's the team apparently, still to be confirmed in case of late injuries. Reina Kelly Soto Agger Konchesky Meireles Spearing Maxi Cole Babel N'Gog

Nando is 26 and pushing 27, he is arguably the most gifted finisher of his generation, one of the few strikers in the world able to score from any angle and usually at the crucial time. He left his beloved Atletico, club, that is in his blood since early childhood, to finally end trophy draught, rejecting many massive offers from clubs with better prospects and more financial muscle. He's nearly 27 and won everything in international football and still has no club silverware. He's spent 3 years without a trophy here, while Atletico won Europe League, so he can already regret his move. Atletico splash substantial money every year and seem to go upwards, while we're on a steady decline. If we fail to secure Champions League for next season, one of his main aims when he came here, wouldn't you understand him if he leaves? A 27 year old striker, one of the best of his generation, whose career might end sooner rather than later because of injuries and instead of playing on outskirts of European football for third consecutive year he DESERVES top side where he can win some medals?

I would add Wolverhampton and perhaps Wigan, when won thanks to workmanlike performances, ironically far worse then the ones from previous year, when we had 30 attempts on goal at times. But as they took place near the end of the first half of the season, we were a threat no more and even relegation battlers wanted to take their chances without parking the bus. Anyway, saying we played same rubbish last year, even though most of our displays last year was a pure embodiment of the word "antifootball", is way off the mark. Lucas-Mascherano partnership was our stumbling block throughout all the season as they featured even in away games against Wolves, Blackburn or West Ham. Still, at home they figured only against upper half of the table. From Chelsea to Birmingham. Our centre midfield against other teams was as follows: Blackburn - Lucas-Gerrard, 4-4-2 Bolton - Mascherano-Aquilani-Gerrard Stoke - exception, fielded Lucas-Mascherano-Gerrard, but won 4-0, so doesn't matter Fulham - Mascherano-Gerrard-Aquilani Burnley - Lucas-Gerrard, 4-4-2 Hull - Lucas - Gerrard, 4-4-2 Wolves - Lucas-Aquilani-Gerrard Sunderland - Mascherano-Gerrard, 4-4-2 West Ham - Lucas-Gerrard, 4-4-2 Portsmouth - Mascherano-Aquilani-Gerrard Wigan - Mascherano-Gerrard, 4-4-2 Against 11 mid-table or relegation-fodders Rafa played one holding midfielder with two attacking-minded playmakers or playmaker and Gerrard as a shadow striker or simple 4-4-2 with two strikers up front. The only exception was Stoke at home, when we still comfortably outplayed them. What worries me is Roy playing 2 sweepers protecting back four against team bound to battle for Premier League stay until final days of the season, the one Chelsea has beaten 6-0 only two weeks earlier. If we exclude Stoke, Bolton, Blackburn, Sunderland and Fulham as they're more midtable team we can see we didn't play two anchormen against any relegation fodder at home in one single cunting time. What's more, if we include Trabzonspor line-up with two anchormen and compare it with line-up against Debrecen, with Gerrard-Lucas duo in the middle, Roy is MORE CAUTIOUS THAN RAFA. And that's not easy. In addition, Birmingham might be a fortress and none of top four has won there last season and they have a great unbeaten run of 17 at St.Andrews, really impressive. We hold a record with Aston Villa and West Ham pair for 7 consecutive draws in the Premier League, haven't won there since May 2004. True, but as far as I remember Rafa played 4-4-2 with Lucas and Gerrard in the middle and off the top of my head I remember 3 times more goalscoring occassions than on Sunday, so once again, ROY IS MORE CAUTIOUS THAN RAFA. And that's not easy by any means. I don't want to even mention City game, where ironically Roy started to attacking-minded line-up with two up front, instead of swaping line-ups with the ones against Brum and West Bromwich Albion. And playing 11 against 11 that was our highest defeat in the league since losing to Arsenal in 2006. What's more, ball possession we had was also the worst since that memorable game, when at least we had two disallowed goals, so must have entered their half of the pitch at certain moment. I don't hate Roy, even like him and personally could be a smashing fella, would go for a bevy rather with him, not with l Mr. Benitez. I fully support him and want to excel here. He can be my new Paisley, if he's our Arsene Wenger I also won't mind. I don't want him sacked or bullied by our own fans, but feel obliged to critisize some of his decisions. Remember many expecting us to play high tempo passing game and play a bit less dull football than last year and many times in Rafa reign, not to mention Houllier. If we include Trabzonspor game at home, in 3 out of 6 Roy played MORE DEFENSIVELY THAN RAFA did in the same or similar clashes last season. Arsenal game was ok for me and was even impressed with Roy playing Gerrard and Cole at the same time, but underwhelmed with total lack of pressing. City was a big failure for Roy as a tactician, outwitted by Italian celebrity coach with little tactical ability. And Mascherano absence, regardless why, is not an excuse. Poulsen was on the bench and could easily play then, he has a lot of experience and was physically ready. To sum up, in 3 out of 6 games we played more defensively than under former manager who merited a reputation for being over-cautious. In 1 out of 6 we were hammered to unseen extent for last 4 years and that was due to a massive tactical incompetence. I'm sure Rafa would play two defensive midfielders in this game, pressing high with a very few shots on target, if any. But he would never make such a suicidal tactical decision, he is smart enough to outwitt and nullify Mancini. So in 4 out of 6 games we played worse than in the same games under former manager, who was a big failure last season. I hope Roy doesn't follow his path, but so far it seems even worse.

You struggle to reconcile reading and understanding at the same time and you slate me for something I shuddered to even suggest! There was nothing against Roy, I personally like him as a man. All I did was questioning some of his decisions, not judging him. I didn't say "Roy out". He has my full support, but not conditionless acceptance for any of hi decisions. You must be obsessed not to notice that. I want critisize him the same way Rafa was. Last season Rafa was well deservedly critisized for over-cautious approach, but so far we are MORE DEFENSIVE. And it's not against Roy, but Rafa bashers for his defensive approach somehow fail to notice EVEN MORE DEFENSIVE approach now. I won't judge Roy appoitnment until Christmas, but will critisize SINGLE DECISIONS. Is that ok?

You insist Roy was going to field 3 in the centre of midfield, I do believe you. How do we know that? From the confidential reports announcing the line-up several hours/one day before the game. So these reports must be credible, the ones from clickliverpool, RAWK and ITKs like Thommo and DjPhal. The same reports say we will play 451 this time. You lack consequence. And we'll see what the line up will be like in one hour time. To say Mascherano totally destroyed our tactical plan is ridiculous. Poulsen could play as well. Poor excuses, illogical and pointless. If Poulsen played against Trabzonspor twice, why couldn't we field him against City? Roy got the tactics wrong. Even if somehow Mascherano departure unsettled Poulsen and made him unable to play, we played more defensively against WBA, Trabzonspor at home and Birmingham away than vs any 10-20 side at home and more defensively than against Brum away. I don't mean Roy is a cunt or anything like that, just we have to wait until Christmas with assessment. But keep open-minded and critical even now and so far Roy, contrary what Rafa haters claim, we play MORE DEFENSIVELY.

No credit for Ancelotti and his unique in Chelscum history double, signed only Zhyrkov,a bit-part player. No credit for Wenger for his first title, overwhelming majority of his side played for George Graham and Rioch. No credit for Van Gaal, he isn't responsible for transfers anyway, Bayern and Ajax success is overrated, where did he build as many facilities as Ged built for us? No credit for Maureen and his first title in Inter, it was Mancini side. And last but definitely not least, no blame for Ranieri and Valencia decline when Rafa left - underachieving side from 2004 on was in many ways Rafa team. So Rafa team declined in 2004-2005 (earlier Valencia titles were Cuper merit anyway), while Houllier team set the world alight in Champions League in the same season, am I right?

At St.Andrew's last term Rafa fielded 4-4-2, just like against ten other teams in EPL last season, so it wasn't any particular excpetion. That's why we got plenty of territorial advantage and unlike at least 10 other away games in 2009-2010, we created numerous chances to score. On the other hand, we packed the midfield, pressed high and nullified City advantages at Eastlands with a boring, but effective then 4-5-1. Unfortunately, Roy picks correct systems, but against improper teams. We stay deep and invite opponent to play on our half, having 2 destroyers and one recognised striker against West Bromwich Albion and Trabzonspor at home. On the other hand, Roy fields attacking-minded suicidal 4-4-2 with only two mids in the centre of the park, when we were outplayed to the extent unseen since 2006 at Emirates Stadium. I can't get why Roy isn't slated the way Rafa was playing two defensive midfielders at home. I'm sorry, but as much as Macherano-Lucas was one of the most unwatchable pairings in the league, contributing massively to our downhill, against sides lower than 10th in the league Rafa played only one destroyer at home. 4-4-2 against sides like: Burnley Hull West Ham Sunderland Stoke Blackburn Wigan Portsmouth, Fulham, Bolton, Wolves at home - Aquiilani played in the centre of midfield. Who is over-cautious then? Seriously, Rafa was annoying and made my blood boil in his final season, but tactically we're worse now (4-4-2 at COMS and 2 DMs at home vs relegation battler, unseen in Rafa final season even) and play even more defensively, sitting very deep. Being outplayed by Ged Aston Villa will be my boiling point.