Gnasher

I didn't know that about Aldi and I don't doubt it but the main issue was its another rise given to workers in part because of Brexit. As for business expecting more work for more money they are no longer n a position to demand anything, unless they want to lose more staff.

The reality is in these people's wage packets Everything is temporary and unsustainable to a point, bankers bonuses? Did the rich turn their nose up at them? Anyway If/when rises come to an end the reason will probably be through poor economic governance not through the act of Brexit. Anyway the length is not the whole issue, the worker/employer correlation change was desperately needed. Yours is a rather bizarre argument. More rights are obviously welcome but sky high unemployment has always been the main enemy of job security. We both live in areas blighted by mass unemployment. Thatcher used it in the 80s with an unemployment rate of 3mil plus. Employers knew they have a large pool of workers to call on and use it accordingly to slash pay and conditions. An awful lot of political commentators on both left and right predicted an upturn for the lowest 20% of workers in mainly manual lower paid occupations. Cummings being one of them. It really wasn't a suprise.

I was talking more in general terms. A firm struggling for labour should ensure job security rises, otherwise they'd soon be looking for even more labour. Thatcher used mass unemployment to suppress wages and increase job insecurity, which is what happened. I'm certainly not suggesting this is some kind of boom time for British workers across the card but some in certain low paid professions such as agriculture/hospitality/construction have definitely benefited from our withdrawal.

But they are, an example in the guardian today, or don't the low paid count? https://www.reuters.com/world/uk/uk-sees-fastest-wage-rises-sectors-most-reliant-eu-workers-indeed-2022-02-25/

Well I've posted a link showing a major supermarket giving staff wage rises this very week in part because of Brexit.

Do the people who work in supermarkets count as the 'real world'? https://www.theguardian.com/business/2022/jul/25/aldi-gives-second-pay-rise-in-year-amid-high-demand-for-uk-workers

Yes. It. Did. https://www.theguardian.com/business/2022/jul/25/aldi-gives-second-pay-rise-in-year-amid-high-demand-for-uk-workers

It's not victim blaming it's the suppression of wages amongst mainly low paid workers in certain industries, agriculture being a prime example. A major supermarket has increased wages this very week. I seem to remember a certain poster saying these rises won't last.

Brexit has many flaws, lack of NHS staff imo being the main one (although our government should have been aware) but it also undoubtedly provided pay and security in work benefits for many low paid workers in hospitality/agricultural/construction etc. https://www.theguardian.com/business/2022/jul/25/aldi-gives-second-pay-rise-in-year-amid-high-demand-for-uk-workers

Free movement is a double edged sword often used by unscrupulous bosses to suppress wages. https://www.theguardian.com/business/2022/jul/25/aldi-gives-second-pay-rise-in-year-amid-high-demand-for-uk-workers Ask the the recently sacked P&O workers what they think of Ursulas free movement, https://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news/people/po-ferries-eastern-european-crew-are-on-board-pride-of-hull-but-dont-have-clearance-to-sail-3616493

Might not be 'relevant' to you but here's yet another example, https://www.theguardian.com/business/2022/jul/25/aldi-gives-second-pay-rise-in-year-amid-high-demand-for-uk-workers

Angry you ignore the wage correlation for the lowest twenty per cent of workers in this country. You ignore the voice they've been given (no one gave a fivk about haulage workers, fruit pickers, hospitality staff till the labour shortage) they were barely given a second thought for thirty years, they had wage stagnation and were expected to just suck up and see. Brexit blew a bomb on us taking these people for granted. It opened a long needed debate about how much these people should be valued and should be paid. Brexit has thankfully made us all appreciate the low paid workers who pick, deliver and in the hospitality industry cook and serve our food. Can't you understand the days of wealthy landowners flying poor Romanian veg pickers in the midst of a pandemic on chartered planes to pick our fruit and veg had come to an end? We all watched these poor people led of planes to pick our fruit etc and it was disgusting, it was eu capitalism in full veiw. Awful. Don't worry about the people or the environment, profit comes first. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/coronavirus-farmers-charter-flights-fruit-pickers-foreign-workers-romania-bucharest-stansted-a9466361.html

The people who speak against public ownership imo deserve far less respect than anti vaxers. The free market are pumping shit into our rivers, charging us a small fortune on rail to see our love ones and hiking fuel prices just because 'they can'...it needs to stop. We've suffered 40 odd years of this privatisation nonsense, it has not fucking worked, it never will.

I don't think the 'centrist' agenda will be enough tbh now. Times have changed since a few years ago. Even so called 'centrists are fed up of having shit pumped into rivers and being ripped off every time they catch a train. Renationalising is popular even without any of the 3 main parties pushing for it.

Fuck the 'soft tories'.

The other point is Reeves gave Labours 2019 plan of renationalisation as a reason for their defeat. She was lying.

They are near the money in that survey though. Unless of course you are ambivalent to a country where people make money out of our assets whilst old people die of the cold.

We all know (yawn) we need the cunts out. We can however discuss which way the Labour party is going especially on a day the shadow chancellor ruled out taking our assets back into public control. Starmer is getting a grilling on the subject in Liverpool as we speak, and rightly so.

Looking at recent events and polls in France and Italy it's not just a few people in Britain dissatisfied with the EU shitshow.

Err, if you say so.

I think she soon will be.

Blame the messenger time again. As ive said on another thread I live where we will never entertain a Tory government, they will always be rejected, always have, always will. They will never be welcomed. I'd suggest Labour try to give people a reason to vote for them instead of the tiresome 'we ain't as bad as the tories' mantra.

I've spent the last 6 years arguing that it's not Brexit that's the shitshow but the government in charge of orchestrating the process. Difference. As for voting out Tories, at the last election whilst most of England were heralding a massive Tory victory the Conservative candidate where I was saying recieved a massive 6% of the vote. I can remember my girl saying their must be some sort of mistake for them to poll that much, people must've misplaced their vote or something. Wales will never vote in a tory government Angry, ain't happening.