Redshadow

Not Quite JMCKenna - The FA have left One Huge gap in their so-called defences. Their case would not last Five Minutes in a Proper Legal Court due to there being No evidence (even video evidence) of the supposed 'clash' or Luis having said or was alleged to anyway. The reason that gives us a way of getting at them is simple. The FA are not & have Never been qualified or authorised in This & certainly no other countries court to make a Final Judgement on what is or Is Not racist - That is the province of national/supranational Courts & those Alone. Therefore, the case has a clear avenue to go Very Far above & beyond the FA and what Parochial power they hold over the game in our country (which has been little enough since the advent of the Premier League back in 1992 anyway) since it concerns Far more than mere sport. Therefore quite clearly about this should we decide to take it higher? The FA can do Nothing as they hold No power in That area of English (or European) Law & thus can prevent Nothing - not even cases under their usual area of total sway in sport- involving elements of racial questions like this being referred over & above them To such courts - I think the telling reaction in all this? Is that of FIFA - If we weren't able to take it to courts outwith the FA's reach? Would they not have threatened to intervene in English Football as they nearly Always do in such cases abroad when Legal Courts get involved? And they would love nothing more than such an opportunity to intefere in England - In view of that? Their silence speaks volumes......... When (not if) the case goes to either the Court of Arbitration for Sport or even back here & beyond that to the English High Court or further? The lack of evidence will Ensure that what little stands against Suarez? Is destroyed in short order & the so-called charge dismissed within minutes - Wonder what the Lynch mob & the Real Racists driving all this will do Then? As an occurence like That? Will leave the FA in such a mess & looking So pathetic they will Have to rescind any ban & issue an apology to Suarez unreservedly for all the abuse he's suffered on their (false) sayso. The FA? Well, They're stupid at the best of times - But in this? They might just have made a Fatal mistake as I can't see Liverpool FC backing down here nor Should they as pretty soon? The legal avenues & process available to us? Will obviously virtually Ensure the case against Suarez is completely eviscerated & in the process? This will Utterly humiliate the FA/Media/Ferguson/Evra/self-appointed Spokesidiots on the subject etc and Rightly so..................... NB Am I the only one who thinks the Eight match thing was posturing to FIFA & setting out the grounds for them to reduce the ban later? There's No Way (esp' on threat of us going Much further & thus undermining the FA's power in a Big way) that such a sanction can stand in the face of not just the shitestorm this has caused but also in the face of the (proper) Legal avenues & artillery available to us in order to blow it away & If the FA want to keep Suarez banned for even Some games? They may Have to reduce the ban to allow that - I've a feeling That is why they set the bar So high in the first place so as to make a statment & reduce it later. We shall see...........

Redeagle Re That John Terry Article in the Guardian? What astonishes Me most about it is it's from the pen of a Woman & not just any woman but a half-decent (or she Used to be) Journalist in Amy Lawrence who should damn well have known better given that she's covered football for years now no less. You'd have thought that Women most of all would be utterly disgusted with the actions of an openly sexist almost certain racist serial cheat like Terry has proven himself to be in recent years; But no - She leaps in the queue right at the front to defend him with All the cliches at the ready & using pen like a sword on behalf of England's Great Captain to slay all unbelievers (Shakes head). Oh & while I'm on the subject re' Luis? Let me just say that the Sudden (& not at all murky no siree) disappearance of That Canal+ interview along with the removal of the Goal.Com article that spoke more sense than Anything else I've seen on this subject yesterday coupled with the brushing under the carpet of Anything Evra's said to insult Luis (almost certainly racist to) & a whole slew of black ex-footballers including at least one with Obvious former OT connection having been lined up/cued to take pot-shots at Suarez & Anything said in his support by black players or former players (I notice that Glen Johnson & John Barne's remarks have been virtually ignored/brushed under the carpet today & Yesterday - Don't fit The agenda no?); Well let's just say All of that along with the combined attack on us/Luis from the Usual corrupt suspects (The FA themselves, All United fans & media mouthpieces, the LMA, that absolute tw*t Gordon Taylor etc) & Finally the virtual ignorance/deliberate screaming down to drown out the fact that Evra himself has admitted Luis is No Racist? Well let's just say that all of these recent goings-on have All the hallmarks of a Certain Scotsman based not to far from us who will prob' spend Christmas Day enjoying his whisky a Little To Much if you ask me - Up to & including the composition of the supposedly 'independent' panel (look at the history of Denis Smith for one) & the fact One party was interviewed twice & allowed to view video evidence of the supposed 'incident' whilst preparing whilst the other? Was only interviewed once - Guess which was which? Since then - I've heard tell & read plenty of great play on the fact in recent days that United have said nothing/maintained a supposedly 'Dignified' silence etc on this subject but they haven't; No, not really they haven't - They've just done Their talking in different ways if you ask me & what they Have done/arranged? Like the whole rancid affair absolutely stinks of attempting to ensure the stitchup is maintained & our good name dragged through the mud even If we get off the charge & humiliate the FA in the process by eviscerating their case in open court. Like I said, This whole evil affair? Has His fingerprints All over it..................

Proven Migs? Erm with What evidence? (since none was shown After the case & the reasons for the joke of a decision are taking a Godawful long time to be released - Wonder why) And on Whose authority? That of a kangaroo Sporting Court that in the Real World (i.e a Proper Legal Court)? Would be Torn completely To Shreds within Five fucking minutes if that? Don't talk shite migs - This is a trumped charge so the FA can stand up to FIFA & grandstand on the World Stage; You know it as well as we all do. They thought again that Compliant Little Liverpool Would stand for it & ask how long the ban was once more while they shafted us - What they didn't reckon with was the man in charge of the team now Or our ultimate owners & Their legal expertise - The FA are now going to face a shitstorm the likes of which has rarely been seen in "Brush it under the carpet/Keep Quiet while the Premier (How I Hate that name) is successful" Lil' Old England & It's All their own fault. Especially if as I suspect they don't back down. If that happens? I can see this ending up involving not just ourselves, Luis & both sets of lawyers but also the Uruguayan Embassy & FA and going all the way to the European Courts if necessary with the end result? That the FA & their pathetic little excuse for a 'case' will be torn to shreds & utterly eviscerated. They Will now in the end & solely because of this? Be humiliated like they've never been before after this & it's All their own fault.................. NB Notice your pathetic little attempt at a so-called argument Migs? Contained not One mention of the Facts that A) Evra said Luis is Not a racist, B) Evra himself Used Racist Language Against Luis & possibly insulting language as well to a member of his family & C) Evra also raised the race card to the referee when He was booked. Wonder Why that was no? You're as pathetic and transparent as the dinosaurs supposedly 'in charge' of our national game - No wonder we're a laughing stock with that mob in charge. You are to now for even coming close to supporting such utter shite as that ridiculous 'decision'........ NBB I've heard Plenty of so-called 'race' ambassadors/black footballers etc come out and have a go today re our T-shirts not to mention the disgrace that was the Daily Mirrors back page yesterday (and if That doesn't end up in court for libel or slander? Nothing will). I've heard as well plenty moan about poor abused little Evra and his so-called reputation as well (the sad remnant of that having been Utterly destroyed in the backlash from all this) & even calls to Sue the club but has any of them (and you now Migs) ever thought? That by making out ignorance is no defence & foreigners (Uruguayans here) Must fit in with our pathetic little faint-hearted/'racist abuse at the drop of a hat/so-called 'multicultural' (another word I Hate & then some) society? That you are all being Just as racist to Uruguay & All it's people yourselves by making out that because they are from South America? They are incapable of understanding English Society & it's values? Thought not. You Migs & all those who take your utterly ridiculous view should be ashamed of yourselves............. NBBB Suarez was only interviewed once & Not shown video evidence whilst Evra was seen by the panel (who Should now be shot to a man) twice And shown All video evidence required. In addition? The abuse from Evra to Suarez (inc' reference to Luis' Family) and the words that poison little tw*t hurled at the referee (racist in themselves) are Not being looked into by the FA Dinosaurs Funny that................

Already happened with me mate - I've had Two massive rows with one of them over this after the prat set up a "Kick Luis Suarez Out of Football" site with a description line of "The Cheat who is everything that's wrong with football today". First one was bad & he got rather personal to say the least (wrote it after I boiled over at such Trash so got a little nasty); Second was mainly him responding to me after I put what I thought of Everton on the wall of his beloved Anti-Luis page - Both were later removed - Not before I bookmarked them though. Take a look if you wish & I know we shouldn't rise to it but some of the abuse hurled at Luis of late has been ridiculous - That was my way of defending him a little; Links are Below for any who don't believe the rows took place (which you might as funnily enough? It Can't now be accessed from the wall of the pathetic little 'Kick Out Suarez' Site he set up - Wonder why that is?); Kick Everton AND... | Facebook As I said, Later? I Had another row with the same bloke re us in Europe which quickly descended to predictable abuse from him again only to shut up when confronted with his beloved blues Own European Exploits - Again? It's missing from the "Kick Suarez Out of Football" Wall he created; Funny That.......... Here; Kick Neverton out... | Facebook

Yep Benite - Was Adam at West Brom at end of October (Last Peno we scored). As to us? Same shite, Different Night. If you miss your chances esp' gilt edged ones like a pen' & another free shot from 6 yards out fired 10 miles over the bar into the night sky (yes I'm looking at You Dirk Kuyt!!), miss pens once more ad nauseum, repeat this with hitting bars, posts, keepers & all points inbetween without hitting the net & if your strikers are played in the wrong order or formation & the main pairing are never played together with one of them hardly playing at all? If to every keeper you play against seems to be auditioning for the part of Lev Yashin in a film on the old Russian Superteams? If you have all that? Then what else do you expect? Our strikers crap themselves (barring Luis or Andy when he's all to infrequently in the mood) when they face the whites of the keepers eyes - We constantly pick the wrong penalty takers (Dirk.......End of story), don't ever play clinical games with one chance, one goal (instead creating 10,000 chances a match & normally missing them All) like certain other teams I could name & in the end? I can only surmise it's down to two things, terrible mentality - We don't have the dead-eyed - We Are Winners, we'll take this chance & you'll? Get Nothing........Again mentality we once had almost exclusively when given almost unmissable chances & which again certain other teams possess in our place in abundance..........For now anyway. The other more immediately rectifiable reason? Simple - Very, very, very, very bad indeed finishing. You don't create That many chances & miss them All; Match in, match out, hitting everything & everyone without scoring; Without Very good reason & I suspect the reason why with us? Can be found at nowhere other than the very Gates of Melwood. Kenny? It's over to you on that one - I have fullest confidence on both counts in you repairing the damage to our mentality of 2 decades of a severe lack of belief & eventually turning our strikers into 20 goal a season merchants but I'm realistic enough (as should we all be) to know it will take time - It took Rafa' 5 years. Now? It may take the King a similar length of time but in the end? He will get there - Until then? All we can do is support, take nights like this in our stride & await the day when the Old Liverpool (the one Kenny played for & managed to Title Glory etc) will wake up once more & eventually? Believe me it Will. When it does? The others (All of them) won't know what's hit them. It will of course be Far to late for them to anything about us by then. After all? Kenny's not called the King for nothing. I suspect the seasons to come & the remainder of this one will show us All just why........................ NB Billypilgrimz? Shite name, pathetic attitude, ridiculous attempt at a wind up. I sense a P...R....A.....T also known as a Wind Up Merchant here. 2 words for you fool? Fcuk Off. Don't bother coming back either once you've heeded them. There's a good prat. NBB There is One good thing about tonight. Another Clean sheet. Our defence are becoming Used to them & Not conceding goals - I think other teams are to or at least are sometimes intimidated enough to appear so. The more often you don't concede goals? The more demoralising it becomes for those who play you & don't forget we (still) have the best defence in the league tonight. Our backline juggernaut/Crushing machine has ground through another match without conceding & whatever else needs fine-tuning further up the team? If teams have such trouble facing That backline now? Imagine what it'll be like when we Do sort it out upfront & Nothing is more certain than that we Will sort it out upfront eventually. Above all? Kenny is I think building it all on the basis that whilst attackers win you matches (and can thus be sorted out later if necessary)? Defences win you League Titles. And he's right to do so for should he manage to sort our backline out to this level of consistency regularly? Who knows what we can achieve? Time will tell..............

Also is anyone as Unsurprised as me by the Terry Charges? We all knew If Terry were to be charged - They would (attempt to) Bury Suarez. The only thing different here is they've done it the wrong way around. The Fcukers Association must have been waiting to see What was announced on the quiet over the weekend re' Terry (Had Terry been let off? They'd have fudged a statement together & let Luis Alone IMO - As they yet might If we fight this enough). The minute they heard Terry was for the High Jump? The Firing Squad were readied for Luis. That's what I think happened anyway & I wouldn't put it past them. I'd put Nothing at all past them after this..........

That's a one-sided piece of crap from that so-called 'expert' up there (the legal Tom Cannon perhaps?) if ever there was one - The 'pessimist for Liverpool' agenda again is it? What a surprise.........; Anyway, what the Fool Fails to mention? Is that every step taken legally (and I mean in Proper courts - Not the Kangaroo world run by sporting courts) can & Will drag this out ever longer & maybe even render a ban ineffective as should it run on into next season? We will have no doubt strengthened hugely in anticipation of said ban & possibly have shown up their sad excuse for a 'case' So much? That the ban might have to be cut to shreds anyway for them to retain Any credibility & not be more embarrassed than they already have been (greatly). Also? Heard rumours that The Whole squad/team are training in Suarez shirts tonight which is great & together with the statement to the FA - A "Fuck You" of The most obvious kind. Am I alone in thinking that should Suarez score (Esp' if it's the 20,000th PL goal) that it might just go Further than that again? I can see Suarez do his jump & Pistol celebration followed by a second jump & maybe a 'handcuffs' gesture or one of his teammates doing it in order to Really hammer home the message to the FA - Doubt they'll like it (Cahill got hell for doing it a couple of years ago at Everton & that was over less than this) but then it's gone a bit beyond that now. In fact I wouldn't be surprised if the above happened & Suarez or A.N other repeated Luis' 'Finger' gesture of a couple of weeks ago with the words "F**k You FA" or similar intended to be Lip-Read for all to see. Either way? I doubt should we score tonight? If nothing at all will happen as tonight? Is anything but a normal night for Our wonderful club - It's the Night after the Day we Finally officially declared Open War on the FA after years of ill-treatment from them As United did 2 decades ago & it's waaaaaaaay past time in coming. Clearly the Manchester Association have wanted an open war with us for a very long time & now? They've Finally got one. Not that they'll come close to winning it - In John Henry & company? They've taken on legally? Absolutely the Worst people they could possibly have chosen - As they'll find out Very soon to their cost.........

Just a thought but has anyone here considered the 'Finger Gesture' incident that hasn't yet been ruled on? It's just what if the FA have deliberately imposed this unworkable, ridiculous ban knowing it will be overturned on appeal & possibly themselves shown up in court as well by LFC's Far superior legal firepower to their own (or that of our owner's to be precise). And then? What if they're going to convict him on the 'finger' charge & ban him for say 3 - 5 games? I suspect maybe they have That in mind. Just as a thought? I wouldn't put it past them to do this as a way of trying to help all parties/satisfy them. And as usual they've only ended up annoying all of us. Just a thought mind but it deserves consideration as it's the only possible thing that can explain this utter, utter debacle. Nothing else really makes sense but then with the FA? Nothing ever does.......

Again I agree Davelfc - I think the only way it could be overturned is if the FA are exposed as hypocrites & their case is thus heard publicly in a real (not Sporting) court at some point (I suspect the club Publicly reserving the right to 'any other action in their statement is telling re' that) & their supporting evidence/arguments Utterly destroyed, Luis' name Cleared, Evra condemned & the FA shown up for all to see as hopelessly inadequate on such matters. When that happens? As you say - They will have No choice but to reverse it, drop the punishment & that will be an end to it........... Although 2 things? As Xerxes said? 1) John Terry should be Very concerned this night as I doubt he'll be in the clear if they're doing this to someone else in a similar mess to him & his case Is under police review & 2) I think Luis would be fully within his rights to sue Evra/take legal action against him for defaming his character/slandering or libelling his name when he's cleared publicly in open court. Maybe it'll make the little Grunt think twice before doing such a thing in future - I wouldn't want to be Evra either when Liverpool visit Old Trafford Next February - I've a feeling he'll leave that game on a stretcher if he's lucky, unconcious or worse if he's not. I suspect one of those two Will happen when Carra' catches him or Stevie - Think they'll go out hunting in that match tbh & give Fergie Real reason to moan about us around Evra by the time we're done with him - Not that it will do that Poison Little Dwarf any good - He's had it coming for a long time now & soon he'll get it. Couldn't happen to a nicer gnome either........... NB Dohnuts? You say it 'tells a tale' all this action regarding Us in particular of late? And that we must challenge them/can't let it stand - Both of which I fully agree with but then you say should Bellamy get a ban - Which I also see coming (think they've earmarked him for removal as Luis' possible replacement during any ban)? That they will then move onto another of our players - So I ask you If that is true (and I suspect it is)? Then how do we stop them in their tracks permanently from ever targetting us again like that? I suspect the only answer is all-out war against them. The club, owners, legal backup & in conjunction the Uruguayan Embassay & FA taking them to the cleaners legally but more than that? I think they're trying to break our spirit as they saw what we did to H & G (eventually) Last year & have been deathly afraid since then of our fans above all others (certainly as the most fcuked over by them in the past 2 decades) uniting against them & showing what can be done since after the likes of Blackstone & H & G? The FA would be a piece of cake for us to destroy/severly damage with a concerted Internet barrage/all out campaign against. I think they're trying to demoralise us into Not acting against them & shutting up about the unhealthy links between them & a nearby club to ourselves that we've recently started pointing out regularly (David Gill etc) and they want both the club & us fans to just shut up & pipe down. This is their attempt to achieve that. I think the only way therefore to combat them is all-out War - Legally with the club & allies as stated above but also us fans - We should attack them all Over the Internet & repeatedly bombard/question/challenge them over everything to do with them & United & debacles like this until they're forced into an error or climbdown after which? They will have to remove all Club appointees from their board & hopefully decisions like this will not happen again. We were 'Internet Terrorists' before & laughed at by many until H & G went - Clearly the FA took note as that is what they're frightented of now - Let's show them they're right to be afraid.............

Sorry HowieLama & thanks for changing my 'neg' bar is it? I agreed with you but couldn't remember who wrote that particular bit whilst I was typing just now - All credit of course to you for that observation re' our owners' area of expertise but I just meant myself? That I agree with the broad thrust of your argument - The Club's main hope of embarrassing the FA & reversing this debacle? Lies in taking the decision Out of the Sporting Courts/The FA's Hands - Put this rubbish up in a normal court? And the Pro-Evra court won't last Five minutes. And when this happens as I'm certain it eventually will? They won't last five minutes before Grabiner buries them & exposes the FA for the utter joke they are in the process......................

We should do More than that Skend - We shouldn't just lodge an appeal & a claim of frivoulous claims (by Evra) against Evra. We should pursue a Legal Claim against him via either Luis or the club (on Luis' behalf) in defence of the libel/defamtion/slander that this has brought on him unjustly & no question about it? Were such a case with the evidence of the Fergie Association to be heard in a real court? Evra would be Royally Slaughtered - I agree with what's written elsewhere here about this being our owners' & contacts (i.e .Grabiner) area of expertise. The FA & Scum have finally made a mistake - They've challenged us On Our own (or our owners') ground/area of expertise & the effect? Will be akin to pulling a sleeping dragon's tail for fun with similar results for them - Hope they're fireproof...... NB Thanks Vivaldo - Just saying in my own roundabout way that if those scum at FA HQ Want a war? Fcuking well Give them one - We beat Much worse than them last year whilst united as a fanbase - By comparism? They are nothing & we will show it in time........ NBB Never mind egg the FA HQ Matthewbet - They should bomb it or firebomb it or Both - We are 'Internet Terrorists' no? Let's graduate to Actual terrorists - Wouldn't be Any more criminal than the Lancaster Gate Scum & at least it Would damage them directly.......... NBB Agree also with what was said elsewhere here & forgot to put it earlier actually - Wouldn't be surprised if the Uruguayan FA & Embassay got involved here in tandem with our club & Luis acting Legally - Would like to see the Scum at FA HQ get out of That one if/when it happens. They'll be completely skewered & rightly so.............. NBBB Never mind Keying or egging the Cars or FA HQ - We should firebomb the bloody place; We're already well known as 'Internet Terrorists' no? Let's graduate to the Finished article. Wouldn't be any more criminal than those scum at FA HQ after all & would at least do some Direct Damage to the pond life who work there & let them know Just what they're up against now............

I'd bear in mind that this is a suspended sentence dependent on us appealing & thus A ) Is not activated immediately because of that & B ) Will (doubtlessly) be knocked down Very severely on appeal due to the sheer absurdity of their lack of a coherent case/evidence against him. As to the rest? I fully agree in that it's a declaration of war - They want a war like H & G did? Give them one - In fact treat them & United like we did H & G. I think the 'Internet Terrorists' should come out of retirement no? We Must Flood & Crash All their websites - If we can crash one after another All the major finance companies involved in the farce of our selling last year? This lot? Are nothing..... - Go after the FA publicly (or the club should) by releasing statements Blasting the decision & picking it to pieces+questioning it's motives/make up And most especially the United presence in the FA. I think to we should nay must take Evra & the FA to the cleaners for defamation of character on Suarez since this sad excuse for evidence they have used for their pathetic little case? Would be blown to bits in court within 5 minutes flat. We should also as a matter of course as a club? Withdraw from the FA Cup - Remove All our players from England availiability until further notice & condemn the FA as Not fit for purpose due to unreasonable levels of inherent bias thanks to the presence of United senior staff on said body & their Clearly unhealty levels of influence. I think to that All fans of LFC should go after Evra on twitter as much as possible - The little gobshite likes to spread crap & defame others? Then give him a bit of his own medicine; Slander, libel & defame His name to high heaven - He cant' sue All of us no? Finally if (and I'm sure one of you will at some point) any Fans on here come across Evra on their travels? Just hit him........Just once but make it a good one - A broken jaw would do the little scrote a world of good & might change his pathetic little ways - Failing that? A snipers bullet or knife in the back would always do no? Just saying. Little tw*t deserves all that's coming to him now & he's just unleashed Hell on himself & Then some................. NB Il Fenomeno? Fcuk Off - With the best defence in the PL? Do you think ALL we do has to do with Luis Bloody Suarez? Might even be just what Carroll needs to ensure we stick it to the tw*ts by going on a HUGE winning run with Him as main man. (Him not being the main man is IMO the Real reason he's struggled since moving that might all change now). NBB Also just a thought but couldn't we wait until they release their evidence & then once we've picked it to piece have Kenny play videos Disproving it in all his Press Conferences & he can verbally tear the FA a new one at each of them as well? Would embarrass almost as much as the inevitable barrage they're going to get in proper Legal Courts now for this absolute joke.......... NBBB Red Lad? Whatever evidence they've got? A ) It doesn't warrant this shite - Never mind drive Luis out of England at a time when the game is already losing stars here right, left & centre - This? Is about Us & Kenny but also? B ) Whatever shite they come up with will no doubt be presented in a 'No Questions Permitted' Press Conference & If inspected closely? Will probably have a clearly visible Red Devils Logo or MUFC Megastore Logo on it somewhere. I wouldn't put it past them anyway - Nothing surprises me anymore.........

Class as always & particularly funny in recent weeks; On another note? I Don't know if anyone else has noticed? But Now? there's a Mrs Big Sam on Twitter & she's apparently every bit as bad as Him (The original 'NottheBigSam) - Coincidence perhaps? Or maybe not? Interesting all the same; Edit She can be found Here: Twitter. Judge for yourselves but to me? That writing style seems Awfully familiar, maybe a little to much so to be different..................... NB On another note isn't it great just How many Ex-Players of ours actually Stay Reds after they're gone? Half of them seem to be on Twitter as well; Besides the obvious ones like various legends from our 'era' now long passed? There's also a few of more recent vintage out there now as well; Luis Garcia's off in Mexico playing now but apparently Still watches & talks of us whenever he can on His Account & he's very humble on there to from what I've seen - Just as I remember him in fact. We all are aware of Xabi Alonso's support for us & he to talks often of us & his time in Liverpool on Twitter now (as well as coming over to games when he can); Further? In his case, we've one fan extra now since he's apparently vowed to raise his son who was born here as a Red. Any others you know of around? Another one whose not an ex-red but has always been a fan of ours is Joey Barton. His account is erm.........Interesting to say the least. I find it odd but good though just How many boyhood Reds or Ex-players of ours we capture as Fans for life. Surely one of The highest numbers going? Not that it's a bad thing - Quite the opposite in fact. Wonder how many others there are in either category? More than a few I'd suspect..............

Right am off out now to Get said present - Unsure what it will be - Will post later and briefly in reply? Jim MM - Sorry my friend wasn't aware of said rule - I very rarely post on This part of the site so didn't know of that particular rule's existence. Elmyn Noos? Shut up with the abuse mate; There's no need for it!! I can do grammar as well as the next person and if you read some of the novels masquerading as posts I've put in the Footie Forum by maybe opening your eyes to Look rather than your mouth to shout at me? You'd see that. Mind you? I've also changed my way of writing a little recently which might have had something to do with it. Either way - It will all work out in the end no doubt, as these things have a habit of doing......... NB And just to make it even More annoying? They're apparently both exactly the same price as well - Decisions, Decision..........Grr!!!

I am right now trying very hard to get someone I know whose utterly Liverpool Daft a present for Xmas; The Trouble I'm having with regard to suitable choices For that present? Is that the Only ones I can get my hands on fairly quickly right now? Are either a choice out of Pepe Reina's Autobiography or Last Year's Season Review of ours as they're All that's in stock around my area right now and the person in question truly Loves both our books & DVD'S - I had originally looked also for the recent complilation of our classic matches that was released on DVD or the new book about season 85-86 that was released recently but the less said about Those little endeavours? The better. :wallbutt: Anyway which one should I buy now as at present? I can get only one of the two - Pepe's book? Or the season Review? Which is better Value For Money and would have more value in you (the humble repliers to this post should you reply) opinions as a present or be appreciated more by the recipient? Any & all views would be appreciated and thanks in advance for all help offered................

On another note Razor? It's all a case of semantics & How you take the meaning of it but isn't "just not playing it fair" rather than actually "cheating" precisely That? Cheating under another name? After all if you Don't play it fair by one side deliberately? Is that not openly strengthening the obstacles in the way of them getting a positive result whilst simultaneously removing said obstacles from the deck stacked against their opponents thereby ensuring their possible route to 3 points is that much easier? And all of this is done by one person with the power to do so and at their discretion as to whether or not to help said opposing team facing a team the Ref' of that match doesn't like; Let's say for example LFC? Now say what you like but if that happens as you infer it did on Monday? Then bascially? It's a personal choice quite clearly and it's intended whether it looks like intention or not to actively hurt one team and benefit another. Now it might not be actually Called cheating and Like I said it's all a case of how you view it but That? Is Very close to outright cheating in my book ............. NB Can't really call Friend biased mind - remember that sending off & penalty he gave us in the Sunderland game back in March? I do. Swings & roundabouts and all that but we Were unlucky on Monday night - Now for some luck our way for a change - I've a feeling we may be waiting awhile yet for that little miracle to transpire.......... NBB I'd say what Kenny's doing is right and I think it is re' the refs as there's few other ways of combatting what Ferguson does other than taking him on openly ala Rafa' or using his Own methods against him with more class & eloquence than he could ever Hope to muster as Kenny is doing but I think we should be careful - The last time he did this and spoke of his thoughts re' Refs? He spoke to Mike Riley back in September and we thought things might improve no? Sheer coincidence then that at Tottenham in our next match after that we soon had 2 players sent off and 9 bookings to Spurs 1 with players being hacked down on Both sides. There was then a blizzard of fines & bans all over the place for us after that match also relating to said cards no? Again it may all be sheer coincidence but then it might not be. You never know...............

Nice one Razor - Good post there; Insightful, informative & concise - A jewel amongst the dross that is all to often the Liverpool Way Forum Nowadays (more's the pity as it used to be Very good indeed on here). Explained a few things I've always wondered about and others I've somewhat suspected for a while. Mind you, You Did raise a few worrying points though there as well; After all if a referee is effectively 'biased' against a certain team (i.e. will not allow them to win If he can help it) and yet is not corrupt but only one step down from it - Shouldn't something be done about it or is it just ignored here? ATM it would seem the latter - well in certain (read All our games) cases anyway. Like I said a worrying trend............ In other respects from your post? Doesn't surprise me at All about Slur and good on your mate for divulging what he did since nowadays? The refs and their precious PGMOB are like the bloody KGB when it comes to explaining themselves/their craft. However why on Earth if your mate was given a 'confidentiality agreement' to sign were rent a gobs like Graham Poll & Jeff Winter allowed to tell virtually everything about what they got up to in the Premier League..........In print? Again, very strange. Finally you say your friend mentioned the unnatural and Very wrong level of influence that Him & That lot down the road hold while he's there yes? Did he also say what or indeed If anything can be done or should be done against such influence? Since if not? Teams (All other teams competing with Them) are effectively starting half a point if not more behind them every season as refs will always be afraid of upsetting them and thus slightly predisposed to them in all they decide on the field of play and that Can't be fair never mind right - Surely? Finally does such influence wane or disappear with age according to your mate? it would appear not if you look at the Purple faced one which is hardly surprising. I can't wait 'til he's gone - Our game might actually be fumigated then and God it needs it - It needs it now like Never before. And I won't even say "if you ask me" or "in my opinion" in regard of That matter - I don't need to; Just look at the English Game to see All you need to know about what's wrong with it & quite clearly? It's a lot as What you'll find? Is Not a pretty sight to the viewing right now nor has it been for a Very long time.................

Glad to see our leader (or their representative anyway) is right there in the trenches fighting With us against all the shite & poison fired at us this time!! 12 months ago the previous shower would have not only held the FA's coats while they stabbed us in the back but sharpened the knife and even shown them How to thrust with it. Glad those days are gone now & the club is One. We're a different proposition now in So many ways and already it's showing. No wonder they're worried about us in all quarters and indeed they're right to be...............

Didn't take them long did it? Only a day or so before This ridiculous argument was used - Mind I've been waiting for it since this whole diabolically biased & utterly pathetic subject came about thanks to the utter spineless and outrageously supine attitude in the face of certain vested interests of the laughably titled 'custodians of our national game' (Put it this way; If They are it's custodians? I really wouldn't like to meet the National Games Enemies!!!) - Just surprised it's taken them This long really in their completely mad crusade against all things from Anfield & the general direction of Liverpool FC............. Check the link; Facts fly in Rafael BenÃ*tez blitz on Liverpool grievances against FA | Football | The Guardian

Your views of Robbie Keane & Andy Carroll sound similar Glock but are different in one Very big respect; That Difference being not so much in the price tag or Only in that as in the fact that Keane was on his way to being washed up, worn out and finished in the English game - Very much so at his age back then If I recall correctly whilst Carroll? Is only just starting his career here really and has a Lot of room to improve (which he's shown in occasional flashes). He's at the bottom of the hill as it were rather like a certain young teenager by the name of A. Shearer also was in this position again also under Kenny's tutelage at Southampton poised to begin his climb up the hill. I wonder how that turned out? Keane however had not only reached the summit of his ability and achievement in the English game by the time he reached us - He'd long since started his descent from the heights and whilst we took a loss on him albeit small? We were right to get rid - He had nothing left to prove whereas Carroll like Shearer all those years ago & indeed a certain rangy young Welshman even Further back? Has it all to do but crucially also? Has the ability somewhere in him to do it. It's a matter of tapping that ability somehow. Don't factor out Kenny's pride here either - He will Not want to be seen to fail with Carroll and knowing him? He won't - He'll find a way to make it work somehow in the end - It just might take him a little longer than first thought is all which is why a striker to Share the load rather than replace him makes sense right now - That way? We may just in the end - Get the best of both worlds - Patience isn't often a virtue nowadays but might just see us very well rewarded here - Either way as one of The great strikers/forwards & thus ideally placed to sort out our attack? Kenny knows - I've a feeling he'll be rewarded for his perseverance with Carroll in the end but it might not be just yet. We shall see eventually either way - Time will tell on that one as it always does................... NB Ngog's? Agree with you wholeheartedly - I think another striker might just be the key to unlocking Carroll also - We shall see I think as regarding another striker? I'm certain we'll have one by January's end if not more than one - Kenny did sometimes spring surprises in the past and buy strikers/attackers in pairs - Who knows? He might be planning that again. It wouldn't be the first time............

I presume the 'they' of whom you speak is the media no? Why do you think they hate Kenny & what he's doing here so much Ngog's? Since you see the state of football right now as a ship? Consider it thus - With regard to the Status Quo/Man U & all their works and Him? The media or 'they' see it something like as follows; When it comes to us, Kenny & the boat? They know this has been coming for years - They've always known both we & Dalglish had unfinished business at the top - Something that doesn't fit to well with their cosy little 'boat' and the way things have become in football since 1991 (ish) right now. In the back of their minds? The media always knew what's happening now under Kenny was going to come or had a good chance of doing so - It was only a question of when. Anyway back to Kenny and That is what they're afraid of mate with regard to their precious 'way it is done' (i.e. the boat as you put it). In regard of Kenny? They know he's not here just to rock that boat - Oh no, they're only To aware that he's going to climb the Rigging with his hated evil heathens at Liverpool FC behind him like a band of utter pirates (in their eyes), play that part to perfection and when she's stripped, robbed blind and has nothing left of value with all they know turned on it's head? They know damn well that he's going to set fire to the ship, burn it down to the waterline & sink it below the ocean of history - Taking Ferguson and All his works with it & restoring football to something like it was before in respect of Anfield, us and the media. What worries them? Is that in Kenny's New Order in English Football? They're all marked as the same in his eyes and will be burned down with said ship. So they're desperately trying to sabotage Kenny at Liverpool Before he's in position to light the first match - Not that they'll get close to doing that - He's far to canny an operator for that - They're overmatched and don't even know it yet - Heck their beloved Ferguson himself is outmatched here - The difference being He Does bloody well know it - Why do you think he's been So silent on us bar his moaning, whinging and general attacks recently when he Had so much to say about us under Wonderful Woy? Quite the difference in his silence now isn't there? In this case? Silence really does speak volumes & Ferguson's most of all.....................

Above Post was wrong - Sorry!!! That bloody 10 minute rule stopped me changing it in time; Anyways I've Reposted here; Should have read as follows in it's completed form; Mario Gomez, Lukas Podolski or Stevan Jovetic if you ask me; Any one of those would fit right into our team at this present time and in all likelihood? They'd be utterly deadly alongside Suarez and/or Bellamy upfront - Come to think of it, Rafa' was going to buy Jovetic wasn't he? Before Tom Hicks changed the rules in 'That' Summer which ruined All Rafa's work anyway. Time to revisit his plan maybe. He Can't be any worse than what we've already got no?; He's already scored as many as United's Hernandez this season and we all know what the British Media think of Him - More to the point? I still remember Jovetic utterly destroying us in Florence 2 years back in the CL game agianst Fiorentina there. That is what started our awful downward spiral & crash that season & kicked off a truly depressing autumn and downright gruesome winter IIRR whereby everything Rafa' had built gradually fell down around his ears one piece at a time and we ended up Chasing the CL places rather than the trophy itself. And the one who started all that by destroying completely our hitherto admirable European Defence in such detail that freezing September night in Italy was this man I talk of now Stevan Jovetic. On another note? Maybe if we get someone almost as good as Luis? It will liberate Suarez himself yes, But just possibly Andy Carroll will be free to find his form a little more as well & how That could benefit us in the long run. Us ending up with such an accumulation of scoring power and threats upfront? Our enemies will Love that.......Not; See the thing that they really don't want us getting and what makes/made the likes of Arsenal/Man U/Chelsea/Our 'Old' Selves so deadly? Wasn't them having just the one dead-eyed constant goalscorer/6 yard line/tap-in merchant only - It was having a number of them all within reach of 10-20 or so goals a season. Consider - We've already got Kuyt, Maxi, Bellamy and Suarez who are all that sort of 10 - 15 (maybe higher in a good year) threat if you ask me though the attack isn't quite firing ATM and then of course there's Andy Carroll whose got the potential (and That is the key word with him right now given the size of our club and the fact that adjusting can take years - Remember Rush?) to be an absolute beast upfront for us - but maybe we just need someone a bit like Rosenthal was in 1990 or say Beardsley in 1988? Someone to fire up the attack, make it a bit more unpredictable, give us another threat upfront so that opposing sides will Always be overloaded and constantly bewitched/befuddled when playing us - Not knowing where the next threats coming from Just when they Thought they were used to us? Any of those I've mentioned above have the potential to be that man. In short? We don't Need another Torres or even someone with similar skills though it would be nice; Just a decent finisher the equivalent of say a Kuyt or even a Cisse on form; Maybe even someone who does little else but is Always there to shin them in or poke home deflected crosses/passes & rebounds (of which we've missed a stupid number this season) etc like Darren Bent for Villa; That will be enough I think and with the rest of our firepower there to be unlocked once more? We'll be off again, should take some stopping once more; We will then hopefully once more realise the potential to create utter havoc upfront (that we've already shown in flashes) from then on in basically. Not saying this sort of signing will happen mind and the answer could just as easily be amongst our youth ranks right now with the likes of Morgan or Suso but something is clearly needed and given that he's one of the greatest goalmakers the game has ever seen in these Isles? I'm sure Kenny knows precisely what that is and will find it in due course - No wonder they're all afraid of him and throwing all they can at him to stop him while they can in order to stop him discovering that last missing element needed to ignite our attack once more; When Kenny finds it? And he Will? We'll be unstoppable once more & that is what they're really afraid of now. So much so? That they're not even bothering to hide it anymore - I don't know what's coming next but I'm sure it will be aimed at Stopping us addressing This problem in particular - Transfer embargo for supporting an (FA & Man U) Accused Possible 'Racist' or ban on imports for some spurious and utterly transparent+ridiculous reason relating to Suarez/Spearing/Kenny's recent conduct from our cuddly, loveable FA anyone? Never say never with them is what I mean - Just because you Think they're all out to get you? Doesn't mean they're Not out to get you is all I'll say on that one for now.....................

Mario Gomez, Lukas Podolski or Stevan Jovetic if you ask me; Any one of those would fit right into our team at this present time and in all likelihood? They'd be utterly deadly alongside Suarez and/or Bellamy upfront - Come to think of it, Rafa' was going to buy Jovetic wasn't he? Before Tom Hicks changed the rules in 'That' Summer which ruined All Rafa's work anyway. Time to revisit his plan maybe. Can't be any worse than what we've got; He's already scored as many as United's Hernandez this season and we all know what the British Media think of him - Maybe if we get someone as good it will liberate Suarez himself but also Carroll a bit more as well. Our enemies will love that.......Not; See the thing that they really don't want us getting and what makes/made the likes of Arsenal/Man U/Chelsea/Our 'Old' Selves so deadly? Wasn't have one dead-eyed constant goalscorer only - It was having a number of them all within reach of 10-20 or so goals a season. Consider - We've already got Kuyt, Maxi, Bellamy and Suarez who are all that sort of 10 - 15 (maybe higher in a good year) threat if you ask me though the attack isn't quite firing ATM and then of course there's Andy Carroll whose got the potential (and That is the key word with him right now given the size of our club and the fact that adjusting can take years - Remember Rush?) to be an absolute beast upfront for us - but maybe we just need someone a bit like Rosenthal was in 1990 or say Beardsley in 1988? Someone to fire up the attack, make it a bit more unpredictable, give us another threat upfront so that opposing sides will Always be overloaded and befuddled when playing us - Not knowing where the next threats coming from Just when they Thought they were used to us? Any of those I've mentioned above have the potential to be that man - We don't Need another Torres - Just a decent finisher the equivalent of say a Kuyt or even a Cisse on form; Maybe even someone who does little else but is Always there to shin them in etc like Darren Bent for Villa; That will be enough I think and with the rest of our firepower there to be unlocked once more? We'll be off again, should take some stopping once more & will ahve once more the potential to create utter havoc upfront (that we've already shown in flashes) from that point on. Not saying this sort of signing will happen mind and the answer could just as easily be amongst our youth ranks right now with the likes of Morgan or Suso but something is clearly needed and given that he's one of the greatest goalmakers the game has ever seen in these Isles? I'm sure Kenny knows precisely what that is and will find it in due course - No wonder they're all afraid of him and throwing all they can at him to stop him while they can in order to stop him discovering that last missing element needed to ignite our attack once more; When Kenny finds it? And he Will? We'll be unstoppable once more & that is what they're really afraid of now. So much so? That they're not even bothering to hide it anymore.....................

Well, Kenny certainly put the thick FA idiots & the nodding dogs (read FA Lapdogs) of the media in their place on the mat beneath the boot of a True master of the art of manipulation with that little masterpiece of a conference no? The clear Highlights being the "testimonial for Suarez re' That charge" remark and of course cinematic style screening of Suarez being kicked to fuck all night long on Monday; Along of course with Bellamy being mistaken for a drunkard who'd insulted his girlfriend outside a nightclub by Dempsey with that pathetic little 'headpush' (read headbutt) A screening that whilst not bothering Cineworld or the nearby Multiplex businesses anytime soon? Will have left the FA choking on their cognac when they either viewed it themselves or heard about it themselves via their spies in the media (that's all of them in case you were unaware). Oh and Regarding the dark arts of ahem 'influence'? Who do you think the red nosed whisky drinker down the road learned it from in the First place? There is no match between them as managers and manipulators really other than the time barrier by Kenny's not being in the game so long - If he had? I've no doubt he'd have won as much as Ferguson and mayhap more besides that........... On another note - Is it just me or could we do what Taggart used to be So good at and turn this massive (and surely deliberate on part of both the FA & certain others) negative into a positive? Not just by fostering a siege mentality with the obvious "up yours/two fingered salute to the FA" as it were effect amongst team/club/management and fans but also? Maybe we could give Suarez a much needed rest since right now he's done something similar to the Torres schedule of a few years back that in the end completely wrecked him as a player for a while - You remember? When he played two whole Premier League seasons with FA/Carling Cups & Champions League campaigns thrown in and afte each season? Played in the Euro 2008 Tournament And then the Confederations Cup the following summer without a reasonable rest until 2010 IIRR just before the World Cup when he had to rest thanks to finally inevitably getting badly injured v Benfica in April. In comparism and unless I'm wrong which I don't think I am on this one - Suarez is now at the same crossroads with the Big difference that we might just cope without him; Consider - In the last 2 or so years thus far? Luis Suarez has played 1 and a half (thus far) Full seasons for Ajax & Liverpool with Dutch Cup Competitions, Carling Cup, Champions League and even the odd Friendly fixture all thrown in - That's in addition to playing the World Cup in 2010, the Copa America This summer and all of that? With barely a rest or serious injury as yet. Maybe we can give him what he really needs now and IMHO? I just think what's happened recently might just have been the result of him making errors of judgement after losing his concentration on the field far more often recently than before; There's a very simple reason this has happened in my view because if nothing else? I think the lads just basically utterly knackered & burned out now from all that non-stop football for nearly 2 years & now? He's finally starting to make mistakes & errors of judgement he wouldn't do so otherwise if he wasn't so worn-out; He's just completely tired out and could do with a rest then come back raring and firing for the rest of the season in order for us to shove it up the FA's Nose by winning something hopefully with Him In the side. And we Do have the squad to pull it off (just) I think. After all, no-one's mentioned that besides the fact that Carroll getting all the responsibility as he had at Newcastle for our attack might just fire him up to do what he used to do so well for them and bully defences but also and the Real ace in the pack in my view? We have a like for like replacement for Luis now in Bellamy - We could quite easily slot Craig into the attack for the month of January were Luis to be banned by the gutless wonder that is our National Joke formerly known as the FA and? We could still without Luis IMO quite easily create absolute havoc as if he'd never been away - More in fact were Bellamy to be the fulcrum of such an attacking design/setup as IIRR he's dovetailed very well so far whenever played with Maxi Rodriguez and during our purple patch from March - May last season? Kuyt Always played well when paired with Rodriguez and the pair of them caused utter chaos in defences when played together frequently ending in barrages of goals - Just ask Fulham, Man U, Newcastle and Birmingham City to name but 4. We Could have done with that sort of attacking devilment, fire & trickery on Monday night come to think of it along with during all those ridiculous draws but that's all in the past now more's the pity. But anyway if Two of them can cause that sort of complete chaos and totally destroy well-drilled defences in short order like that? Then just imagine what adding the volatile, dangerous and sometimes brilliant Bellamy (He was utterly exquisite for Maxi's first goal at the Bridge a few weeks ago) to the mix would do? I think the FA might just have thrown our opponents out of the frying pan and into Our fire without even knowing it as yet. I don't know - Maybe what I'm saying Won't come to pass after all but Kenny's always seemed a bit To calm recently in face of the almost certain loss of his star striker and it got me thinking as to why - That is the most plausible answer I could come up with and I'll hazard a guess that it's in Kenny's plans to though he's said little as yet & as ever (quite rightly or they'll go after Bellamy next). Either way? It could be those that are loving Suarez' predicament right now that end up cursing what happens as a result - Not that any of them know it yet & by the time they do? It will be Far to late to do anything about it...................... NB Craig showed Luis the way the other night in the face of Dempseys deliberate provocation although maybe he Should have got the American sent off in view of the ensuing disaster!! Just ignore them - I trust Suarez will have learned that now but unfortunately for us? It will most probably be learnt in the Hard School of a multi-match ban to distract from John Terry's racism charge and as a result of the FA's pathetically transparent little 'mult-charge' crap intended to get Luis no matter what. Oh well, when they annoy Kenny? They're disturbing a sleeping Lion - If they wake him up or rouse him to anger? (which at this rate won't be long) - Then They've only themselves to blame if they end up missing their heads after he bites them off in response. Not that they don't merit it mind - The FA are by a distance The most amateurish, crony led, bungling, arrogant, self-important piece of crap by a distance in English Football. In fact - That self-same FA are so bad that they in turn have managed to in the past praise our fans passion and knowledge and then? Turn those self-same fans into Sworn Enemies of the Worst kind of their own England side by their ridiculous actions of which this mess is just the latest in a long (and unending it seems) line. You really couldn't make it up & if it wasn't us? It would be almost comical but it is and that's not good right now. Basically? The FA have had what Kenny will do to them coming for a Long time now and no-one deserves it more...............

Said it before and will say it again; Promote Adam Morgan the lad reminds me of a young Fowler in his dead eyed certainty and the sheer number/variety of his finishes - Going further back he's rather reminiscent of a certain thin Welshman also though with nothing like the experience as yet. Given that experience by Promotion to the first team in these difficult times On the pitch? Who knows is all I'll say................ Edit - Thinking of Ian Rush reminded me of This clip I found eariler on Youtube after reading a preview of Saturday's game earlier; From the FA Cup Quarter Final in 1990. Love the certainty of the commentators after Rushie's goal & during/before it. "and Liverpool don't seem to want to settle for a replay" After Gillespie breaks past the QPR backline then " Ian Rush...........And that's it. And Liverpool clearly didn't want to settle for the replay as they're in front for the first time. Gary Gillespie set it up and Paul Parker hangs his head". That sort of aura about us - Despite the result we won the replay comfortably enough. But That aura that when we scored? It was all over & Goodnight Vienna for our opponents together with The level of finishing Rush demonstrates for his goal there? Just passed to him and Bang!! Probably his second chance all game? That is what we're missing right now and have done ever since May 2009 & before we briefly found 'It' back then? We missed it for decades and still do today..........