andyfm

I'll only panic if Hicks takes over. The PR war is truly underway.

The link... Fernando Torres future under threat as banks keep watchful eye on Liverpool | Liverpool - Times Online

Fernando Torres future under threat as banks keep watchful eye on Liverpool Oliver Kay Liverpool must repay £31.5 million to banking institutions in little more than a year or risk having to sell Fernando Torres and Ryan Babel. The Times has learnt that Liverpool borrowed the money to sign Torres, the Spain forward who has scored 30 goals this season and has already become a firm favourite on the Kop, from Atlético Madrid last summer. The club then refinanced that debt on January 25, at the same time as they secured a £350 million refinancing package. Liverpool entered into an 18-month loan agreement with interest of 9 per cent — £2.8 million a year — with a letter of credit to pay back the £31.5 million at the end of the period. Should Liverpool be unable to pay back or refinance the loan, banks could force the sale of Torres and Babel, who was also included in the smaller refinancing package. It is unusual for Barclays Premier League clubs to buy players in this way. Deals are normally funded using television income. Liverpool have to pay £30 million a year in interest payments on the £350 million loan, the terms of which end in July 2009. There was no official comment from the club last night. The revelations came on a day when the turmoil at Anfield reached a nadir after Tom Hicks attempted to strengthen his grip on the club during an interview in which he demonised his enemies inside and outside Anfield. However, the Liverpool co-owner has only six weeks to raise the funds he needs if he is to achieve his goal of buying the club outright. Having continued his assault on Rick Parry by calling his tenure as chief executive “a disaster”, Hicks admitted that his joint-ownership venture with George Gillett Jr had proved unworkable, but he is looking for the funds that would help him to buy Gillett’s 50 per cent stake and to “fix the entire financial structure of the club” while overseeing the construction of a new 70,000-capacity stadium in Stanley Park. Gillett responded last night with a strongly worded statement in which he accused his co-owner of destabilising the club. “I am saddened at this latest outburst from Tom Hicks,” he said. “If Tom wanted a serious discussion on the issues to help the club move forward, he should bring his views to the board. “Here we are, a few days away from a vital Champions League semi-final match and Tom has once again created turmoil with his public comments. Tom should stop. He knows that Rick Parry has my support and that airing his comments in this way will not change my position. “Tom needs to understand that I will not sell my shares to him.” Hicks was typically bullish about his prospects of raising the money — or, perhaps more realistically, finding the financial backing — but while he continues to explore his options with Merrill Lynch, his latest financial adviser, the clock is ticking. Hicks has denied rumours in the City that he is under pressure to refinance his Hicks Sports Group, which holds his stakes in various sports franchises in the United States, but a deadline is looming to buy Gillett’s stake, which is the subject of a rival bid from Dubai International Capital (DIC), the private-equity investment arm of the Dubai Government. Under the terms of their takeover 14 months ago, Hicks has pre-emption rights on Gillett’s stake in Liverpool and vice versa. That option is understood to expire 90 days after he was informed of DIC’s £200 million offer to Gillett, which was made on February 27. That period would expire on May 27, six days after the Champions League final in Moscow. Hicks, though, maintains that he will be in charge of Liverpool for the long term, which would be bad news for Parry. “What has happened under Rick has been a disaster,” Hicks told Sky Sports News. “We have fallen so far behind the other clubs. We have still got the top brand in the world of football, but that’s no good if you don’t know how to commercialise it. Rick needs to resign. You have to be able to work with the manager and Rick has proved he can’t do that.” Parry, who responded with a rigorous defence of his record, will not resign and is under no pressure to do so, given that only two of the club’s six directors want him to go. Hicks said that, if he succeeds in buying Liverpool outright, he will offer Benítez a one-year extension to his contract, which expires in 2010, but, despite his newfound alliance with the manager, he remains unpopular with supporters.

I wasn't alluding to the actual incident, but rather Rafa's tendency to play brinkmanship politics and then go off on one. He was even having a minor wobbly at the weekend. This is all so fucked up, but fans panicking about Rafa and turning on Parry is exactly what Hicks wants. He is the only winner from this, not Rafa.

Nick, are you insane? Rhetorical question obviously. You have Hicks and Parry the wrong way round. Anyone who thinks Parry or Gillet is more dangerous to the club as it stands now, is not seeing the bigger picture. Gillet wants out, only Hicks is preventing that. Parry will be gone as soon as Hicks and Gillet have gone. I'm all up for a bit of Rafa love, but letting desperation for Rafa to stay over the long term future of the club is mental. If Hicks takes over, either 100% or with 50% and control of the board and CEO position (and Parry leaving now is what that is all about), Rafa will not be the manager in a couple of years time anyway. He'll have quit over broken promises or be fired for not concentrating on coaching his players.

No problem. I got you one. I had to loan the green box from the bank and I do expect you to pay that off yourself, plus the half a green box on top that I negotiated with them. Also you owe me 10 quid for the taxi.

Gillett wants his money now. I am sure Parry won't last long if DIC takeover. Hicks is the only one that is trying his damnedest to stay, so focus on him.

Oh my God, I want to puke. That was American politics at its finest. Even had the armchair and the warmy fuzzy fire. Lose a couple of hundred pounds and that could be Dubya instead. Folksy charm, my arse.

Post 173 in this thread. Came from RAOTL via TTWAR.

Exactly the thoughts I have had. Very dispiriting. Personally I don't think Hicks has the money to take full control, if he did, none of this would be happening. My guess is he wants control of the board asap so if DIC as rumoured are to buy Gillett's shares at the end of May, they balk at Hicks still having effective control in a 50/50 split, just like Gillett has now. I understand Hicks, Gillett, Parry and DIC in all this. Hicks wants full control so he can mint it in years to come (and even use it to pay for his US teams as he said on tv) with no personal investment. Gillet just wants to take the quick short term profit from DIC. Parry wants to redress his and Moores monumental fuckup (I cannot see him still being here no matter who owns the club). DIC want to take over without getting completely screwed. What I don't understand is what the heck Rafa is playing at. Considering how much I love Rafa, I am starting to have some very worrying thoughts about what he is doing. The weekend outburst about Parry being at the meeting with Klinsmann concerns me as it plays into Hicks PR strategy to remove Parry. I just hope he is playing a really clever game that I don't understand.

I preferred *explodes*. :D Of course it's just PR. Hicks has no right to offer Rafa a new contract, that needs board approval. So what else can it be other than PR to win over fans? The interesting thing will be the response from DIC, via Gillett. Now Rafa is being used like this, it is going to be difficult for him to avoid taking a side, even if he remains silent as that seems to be tacit acceptance of Hicks in the minds of a fair few. If the rumour of the senior players telling Rafa what they will do if Hicks takes over, and that comes from a respected poster elsewhere, then Hicks and Rafa would start off with a fucked up squad anyway. If that all becomes public, expect opinion to start flowing the other way. Basically anyone doing a PR offensive this week can go get fucked.

So we can buy whoever the latest fad is. Is it still Modric?

Probably quoting yourself quoting someone else make little sense, but has anybody heard anything about this? I can't post on TTWAR for some reason so cannot ask the OP on there.

Nothing anyone can do about other people except give them our opinions and hope it influences one or two. To be quite frank, I am ashamed I sold my pride and joy, my one share in LFC to these bastards. I believed the bullshit then, and I refuse to be fooled a second time. If Hicks takes over, I don't think I'm exaggerating when I say I reckon that is the end of any chance of us competing at the top level in the future. If people think it is stressful now, imagine what it is like when we are his plaything and he has no reason for a PR offensive.

I've lived and worked in the US since 2001. In that time, the company I work for was bought by US venture capitalists for a knockdown price. They proceeded to asset strip the company by bringing in their own high priced consultants who provided no tangible results. When the company went deeper into debt, they fired a whole swathe of staff (internal IT and business resource) and brought in cheaper workers (offshore) to balance the books. The only happy part of this story was when an Arab company bought us a couple of years or so ago, and started investing money (I get pay rises again!). They got seriously ripped off on the purchase price though. I have been through this personally and it is ugly. US business operates on a short term expediency model. They will happily spin the bullshit to keep you onboard until their requirements change. Most US states are 'at will' employment, which means they can just fire you whenever they feel like it. It is a very different mindset to Europe. Do not believe what is being promising. If you do, I'll lay any bets you will be very disappointed indeed.

The CEO position is rather different from some midlevel or lowlevel management or worker position. Not that I am supporting Parry, he has his faults. But I reckon by your argument Rafa should also have just quit instead of doing the "coaching my team" interview?

Borrowed from a post by APB on TTWAR and originally posted on RAOTL... JM Wrote: Just think about it, for a minute. The man who recognised in Rafa the talent and drive to be a great manager and succesfully brought him here to Anfield is supposed to think that Jurgen Kilnsmann would be a better manager - or even a decent manager, fit enough to replace Rafa should he walk? Don't make me laugh. Rick Parry has many faults and has lots to answer for but he would never in a million years see anything in Klinsmann that would make him feel he could 'do a job' at Liverpool Football Club. Does it not seem more realistic that Parry was there because he is the only football man on the board, and it would be he who would determine his credentials etc.? APB: Exactly. I think we do know the Klinsmann meeting was Gillet's idea, encouraged by Hicks, who himself was alarmed by the Benitez outburst following defeat in Athens. Sporting coaches do as their told in the United States, so they were keen to explore a plan B, unused to such 'insolence.' Parry had to be at that meeting. At this point, he still held some sway with them and they looked to him for advice. If there was one person who could stop them appointing Klinsmann it was Parry, but to do that he had to be at that meeting. We don't know what was said or by whom, but we do know the Klinsmann thing did not materialise and was not pursued any further. I would expect Parry to have had a role in that. He's by nature an inherently cautious conservative character and no way he is going to sanction and endorse a bid for a manager, untried and tested in European football. It goes against everything I know about the man. JM wrote And how has Rafa has been dragged publicly into this back-room power struggle? If, as we all believe, it should be he who has control of all football matters, and that money men and directors should exist solely to write the cheques, then surely Rafa should keep his mouth shut when it comes to boardroom politics. But such is the maelstrom surrounding the club at the moment, everyone is jockying for position, watching their backs, gripped with paranoia. All this is a direct result of Tom Hicks' war of chaos. He's blitzed the media with stories and leaks and rumours, and set everyone at each other's throats. His Sunday Times 'interview' by Jonathan Northcroft was little more than a press release; designed to curry favour from the supporters by damning Parry and promising to back Rafa to the ends of the earth. Hicks claims "I want Rafa in charge ... I will build the best football stadium in the world ...I have substantial assets and if I were the majority owner I would invest additional cash. I have a 25-year track record as a succesful investor and owner ... and plan to eliminate all debt on the team.". And this from a man who has, so far, not invested one penny of additional money into the club. Not a cent. Torres and Mascherano? Bought with C.L. prize monies and borrowings secured against the club. New stadium? Go take a look in the park next home game, its that quiet and undisturbed there that Roe deer are now grazing up as far as The Arkles. And we're supposed to have, according to Boss Hog, a new stadium in a little over 2 years that will give us, "the resources to restore Liverpool to its position as the No. 1 club in the world." APB: Rafa has been dragged into this of his own making and we have to face facts, he's trying to play the situation to his own advantage. It's a dangerous game of brinkmanship in anyone's money. Hicks of course it was who said back in Novemeber said - coaches coach, you're paid to coach the team, hence the bizarre Rafa press conference ahead of Newcastle away. Now we learn that Hicks is in regular email contact with Rafa, making all kinds of promises about supporting him the transfer market. But this is Hicks just playing the PR card, to strengthen his hand in the boardroom. He wants Parry out. Get Rafa and the fans on Parry's case and Parry's dead man walking - his position becomes nigh on untenable. The evidence of course as you suggest John offers no indication that Hicks will honour his promises to Rafa. His track record in the United States suggest much to contrary. The Dallas Stars are saddled with $200 million in debt (the team's holding company, Southwest Sports, defaulted on $135 million of debt four years ago), and can't make it past the first round of the playoffs - crowds have dwindled and the whole venture is losing money hand over fist. Meanwhile Texas Rangers fans have set up petition against him. Ten years ago when Hicks acquired them the team where competitive. Now? They've been placed 3rd or 4th in a 4-team division for 7 consecutive seasons. The last division title was in 1999, a season after Hicks took ownership but before he worked his asset stripping magic, selling all the best players. Despite rising ticket, parking and concession prices, the team's salary, especially as compared to other team salaries, has disproportionately declined while revenue and attendence have grown rapidly . The Rangers playing staff has been depleted under Hicks' tenure due to frequent changes amongst coaching, development and scouting personnel combined with bad trades, poor free agent signings, and bad decisions to not re-sign talented players or acquire better free agents. Hicks has left the Rangers void of the talent necessary to compete for a division title, much less a championship. In short, he's bled them dry and sucked out what he can get. Given that he's pretty much told lie after lie, since arriving at Liverpool, the biggest being about refinancing and saddling the club with debt, it's difficult to believe any of his supposed promises to Rafa, and more importantly, it's hard to believe that Rafa believes any of it. Especially as we know 4-5 senior players have seen through it and have told Rafa they'll be off if Hicks assumes control. So what really appears to be going on is Rafa playing hard ball from what he percieves to be a position of strength. Taking offence to the Klinsmann thing is just a bargaining strategy. He's basically saying give me transfer money or else - again. I suspect that will be followed by, 'and sort yourselves out while you're at it.' And this is the old root source of the tension with Parry. The budget he had to work with was limited, which meant the cautious, conservative, possibly anally rentative Parry, who doubled checked offers, contract and salary deals, and ultimately decided whether they could afford a deal, got right up Rafa's nose, when he said no can't afford it, was outbid, or simply dithered. This was probably eaxcerabted by post Houllier paranoia, when Gerard's transfer record detoriorated over his last two years. Unfortunately, as CEO that was Parry's job. This brings us on to Ian Ayres - a scouser, a Liverpool fan, a Hicks confidante and appointment - where does he fit into all this. Good business track record, but as a hired hand. Has he encountered anyone as duplicitous and ruthless as Hicks in his working life? Hard to believe so. He's expected to do as he's told by Hicks - little more than a pawn, and when the time comes, he'll be discarded like countless others. Tom Hicks pleased to meet you - 'asset stripping's the name of the game'. I think we also need to realise that when the American's took that big slice of tickets for Athens, they threw it down to Parry and said now you deal with the fans. Which he manifestly and transparently failed to do, but I think at the time I posted that I suspected that the Americans had taken a chunk of tickets. Never in the history of LFC had anything that drastic happened with tickets, but they walk into the club and hey presto. Looking back I think Parry tried to provide some clues, but he couldn't say what had really happened, or he'd have been fired on the spot. So he did his usual of trying to handle the issue by avoiding and fudging it. He is a poor coomunicator. Parry's problem is that he has fallen between two stools. He tried to improve the commercial side of things, while maintaining a sense of tradition - the Liverpool way, while not managing either, with any real degree of success. His biggest single mistake was not looking into the background of Tom Hicks and taking George Gillett's assurances at face value. And I think he did do quite a bit of research into Gillett and his record. There can be little doubt, last January - Moores and Parry panicked when the DIC withdrew their interest. They needed something in place quickly and they hurried it and botched it. But right now given the vultures circling - he's our only hope in the board room.

Me too. But that is why Chamberlain capitulated to Hitler, and I reckon we need to expect a great deal more pain before this is resolved. Otherwise this will seem like a sparrow's fart a few years down the line. If it gets the gobshites out of the club, I reckon the pain will have been worth it.

You only have to look at Leeds who predicated everything on CL qualification every year. Imagine if Gerrard and Torres get season long injuries. Not a risk we should take. I personally don't think Rafa will leave, but of course he might, and I wouldn't blame him. We of course have no option.

The long term future of the club is more important than even Rafa. Think about it, we cave to Hicks in case we lose Rafa. Hicks can't or won't give Rafa a budget next year, Rafa blows his top at broken promises, Hicks fires him and appoints a yes man. He only has to time it during the inevitable slump like this season and half the muppets who support this club will agree. Then we have an absolute gobshite in charge and be fucked on the pitch as well. Think Manchester City under Swales or Villa under Ellis, and welcome to the managerial merrygoround. Texas Rangers (Hicks has owned them since 1998 ) managers (head coaches) with their W-L records in brackets. The current boss was previously a third base coach with no previous managerial experience. All of his coaches have performed worse than the man he inherited. Ron Washington 2007-Present (75-87) Buck Showalter 2003-2006 (319-330) Jerry Narron 2001-02 (134-162) Johnny Oates 1995-2001 (506-476)

If the ref had blown for that it would have been a free kick and a booking for Fabregas. But he blew because Toure ran into Babel (not deliberately, Fabregas' actions gave him no choice, but intent is not important) knocking him over and preventing a clear goalscoring opportunity. Unlucky to get a yellow, but lucky not to get a red if you know what I mean. So you didn't see Toure run into Babel's arm then attempt to mount him?

I disagree, I thought it was touch and go till I saw the replay. Fabregas tugs Babel's arm outside the box (like he did on the 4th goal too with the shirt). Babel carries on trying to shrug him off. Net effect is Babel slightly off balance and slowed down a touch with his arm held behind him. If Fabregas hadn't done that Toure would never have even reached him. Toure had no chance of stopping and ran straight into Babel's arm, basically totally screwing any chance Babel had of continuing his run, then losing his balance as a result stumbled all over Babel's back as he was trying to recover his footing. The only thing the ref got wrong was booking Toure. Should have been Fabregas as it was entirely his snidey cheating tug that resulted in the penalty.

Why does everyone want to play with one striker? We've not looked too impressive with that formation in recent history, which is probably why we generally play with two these days.

So you want to sell 3 of our strikers and both left backs? That is impressively courageous.

After a quick google style investigation, I can confirm that physioroom does not report him as injured and Portsmouth claim him in their squad, where he has made 14 appearances since he signed from Charlton in January. Not being able to nail down a spot at either Charlton or Portsmouth rather supports my opinion of his talent. But I will try and remember him for the goalline clearance in Istanbul, Captain!