HBenn

I thought David Luiz was back.

Best case if we don't invest is because the owners have sold and don't want to put any more money in that they cannot recover. Jurgen has said that he doesn't want players in that are bothered about 1 season out of the CL but that sounds quite a tough sell to me. Say we are in for Bellingham and Real are too. Bellingham says he is looking for ambition, how can he look at us and be convinced we are am ambitious while saying no to playing in a midfield the polar opposite to ours? That is before you get onto the likes of Utd, Newcastle and Arsenal being more attractive than us. If the owners are not prepared to invest now and we miss CL then they will just turn around in the summer and say "sorry, cannot afford it now". They will have already lost the additional value being in the CL is worth to their asset value so what incentive will they have to invest? The fans will probably be delirious when they say Jürgen's job is safe inspite of us not getting CL. Hopefully someway, somehow we can still find a way to navigate the fixtures, build momentum and get top 4.

I would be ok with that. From what I have seen of him he looks like someone with great potential and he would go a long way to addressing our issues. I just wonder even then if it would be enough. The midfield looks knackered and we have barely started our marathon run of games. Best case scenario they are not match fit, worst case by the end of the month we will be playing Bobby Clark and Bajcetic each week. I really expected that the owners would invest to mitigate risk of not missing CL. Hopefully they will and it's a negotiation ploy but I think I am just going to assume they won't for my own sanity.

I don't disagree with you but unfortunately Joyce said the same in the summer and we ended up not signing anyone, as incredulous as it was then. It could be a negotiating ploy, it could have been one in the summer. I just wouldn't get my hopes up if I were you. These guys have proven they will do anything they can to avoid spending. Bloody hell they didn't want to buy a centre half when we virtually had none, why would they buy when we have 12 midfielders? Even if we all know they are a mixture of injury prone, past it or slow (or all 3).

I would like to think it's the club sending a message to Brighton or whoever that they are not desperate for a midfielder so that prices are not ludicrous. Especially after tonight's walkathon from the midfield 3. However I hear Klopp's comments and FSG's past form for being extremely stupid and taking unbelievable risks to avoid spending money and think its very likely we are done. Ironically, the only thing that may change that is if we get injuries and the reality is, with us picking up 2-3 injuries a game, that is extremely likely to happen. However probably not before the last week of the window. Wonder who will be brought in this time. If it is true, could well explain Ward going. What a shambles it would be. One potentially other important point is that Bellingham cited that ambition was one of the main aspects he was looking at. Will be hard to convince him we have any ambition if we really don't invest in midfield in Jan.

I never said it was over 1 window but it does look like it could be over 1 calendar year. We would be told that only sportswashers could do that with the inference being we would be fucked if we did. The justification that is usually used for the self sustainable model revolve around owners that care about the long term future of the club and so don't spend huge sums of money as it would be reckless for the long term viability of the club. These guys clearly think they can do it and bring in enough revenue to offset it. If we maintain our rigid self sustainable model in the short term, it may well be a lot worse for the long term future of the club. Drop out of the CL and the revenues etc that support the club reduce and so does its ability to get back in the top 4.

Frankly if Jürgen is won over by a player then I will back them completely. If he thinks he is only worth £40m tops and tells them to walk away then no issue with that either. I just struggle to watch that current midfield, believe that Klopp doesn't see the issues (and has probably before we did) and that there are not 1 or 2 players available now that he wants to bring in to improve it.

The point is that we have been conditioned to believe that spending £500m on transfers is not sustainable and is only done by the sportswashers. Now we are seeing it done by a group that will only be allowing it if they think that it will be exceeded by roi. They are not a group of billionaire Jack Walker philanthropists who just want Chelsea to win, whatever the personal cost to them.

Yes, but he is not stupid and will be expecting to make a good roi. We have been told it's just not feasible to do that, be interesting to see how they think they can.

This is probably true but in reality the club have had 2 years or more to identify players to become the long term players in there. They probably shouldn't be relying on a sample size of 20 games to make those calls. I doubt it will get properly questioned but if funds really are tight to sign players that leave us enough remaining funds to at least challenge for Bellingham, you do have to wonder why the club waited to buy in an inflated post WC market. We know Bellingham is a target but who are the ones they have been properly researching to play alongside him in an ideal world? If we are struggling for Caciedo then clearly the plan wasn't Tchouameni and Bellingham. So where is the long term planning?

We need 3 midfielders based on that performance. They would have struggled with the pace in a Legends game. Forget the crap, buy some midfielders now or we can forget CL with performances like that. They look knackered before a run of intense games.

Corporate section get back faster than our midfield

Leicester's midfield is slow and ponderous, as a result we just cannot live with them when they come forward

Thanks, didn't know that. It makes a mockery though. They basically had a £1bn debt and are now spending money like it's going out of fashion.

I am struggling a bit with them. They spending an unbelievable amount of money while saying they can meet FFP and one would expect, with their backers, that they expect to make a healthy return on their investment. Seems to be almost the polar opposite of the way our owners argue things need to be done to be self sustainable and make a profit. Cannot both be right.

Without new owners though you feel we could be approaching the point where it's a strategy we cannot continue to follow in the prem.

The other bit is that he cost £4.5m with small wages. Probably less than Arthur costs us. If the raw materials are there then buying a few of these players could well be advantageous for us. Clearly not all will work but we could be paying 14 times the amount and like you say it's not like it's risk free now. Taking a punt on a few of these may well be the way forward. Also, I am not sure why we are getting these comments about struggling to afford to bring in players as well as Bellingham. Maybe buy pre WC then before the market is inflated?

That sounds like a good comparison with Coutinho from what I have seen of him. If we are after him does that mean we are going for 2 this month? I like the idea of a midfielder like Coutinho in our midfield but I don't see how it really addresses the biggest issues we have at the minute. He looks great in possession but in terms of protecting the back four, having a physical presence, enough pace to protect the slower midfielders. It doesn't seem his game (albeit based from 1 or 2 YouTube videos). Kone, Thuram and Caciedo I can see providing all of those qualities.

This is the problem with the game now though. If the club don't want to be speculate a bit and sign 3 or 4 players direct from South America/Africa etc and want to wait to see how they get on then they have to be prepared to pay these sorts of numbers. Maybe it's why the likes of Graham are leaving because they are recommending them beforehand. Maybe not. It doesn't feel like a coincidence that City (and even Chelsea) are starting to buy players direct. I am not sure why we aren't doing it more. I kinda understood it a bit more when we were great across the pitch but recently? You could make the same argument for not buying midfielders in the summer. Anyone we bring in now is likely to have been an option in the summer and possibly for less money. All that aside though, if Caciedo is the one I would be delighted if we get him. His acceleration across the ground reminds me of Mascherano. While I feel we need some of the skills that Fernandez offers in the longer term, in the more immediate term I think Caciedo would give us much more of what we lack. If Chelsea get him and Enzo then hopefully we would get one of Thuram or Kone (that is assuming that Chelsea don't bid another £200m for them as well!). Either way it does feel like there is a lot of quality out there that may well be available this month.

Someone on here recommended KopWorld as being really reliable. He rarely posts but has just said we are looking at Kouadio Kone.

The most accurate one I have seen is LFC Approved

Probably not £230m but it sounds like the supposed £130m for Bellingham hasn't put us off and I could see us spending upwards of £50m on another this summer if we are going after Thurman or Caciedo. Could still be close to £200m on two. Having already spent £200m this year, one big reason why the club are looking around for investment/sale now.

I really like him. Lovely touch, good self confidence, composed and great work rate. I also thought that he looked slow against City but then playing on the right of the 3 against Villa he didn't look that slow. Perhaps Vs City that was also a lack of experience and physicality which was exacerbated by the quality of opposition and the balance in midfield as well. Currently it feels we have very little pace across our options and so the one in the centre can look really slow as they have a hell of a lot of space to cover which requires them to either have the acceleration of Mascherano (or maybe Usain Bolt) or the tactical awareness of Rijkaard. WIth a more balanced midfield/tweak to tactics, any lack of pace may not be an issue. Fabinho has never had it and it wasn't a problem until nobody else had it either. I don't think City have much pace in the centre of their midfield but it doesn't seem to cause them too many problems generally.

If we were in for him at that price you would think we have new owners. Cannot believe that Henry would agree to pay that much more for a player available for £10m last summer.

Ha! Could well be that. Well if he really is a target for us in the summer and reports are accurate that Utd are in for him now then maybe we will look to go after him as well now. Not to say we will get him of course but it does sound a bit like he will be on the move.