Benitaur

So what are you saying? Be consistent then Did this exact team A) Underachieve B) Overachieve C) Performed at their level

I disagree completely Yossi was a matchwinner for us. When Torres or Gerrard wasn't on top form, he was the one who created something or scored. On the other hand, Cole was a luxury player for Chelsea. Only scores when they were already winning. Nearly never the match winner. Thats the main difference,

Based on what exactly? Cole is shit for England. Can't get into the Chelsea team anymore. How many times has Yossi got us the winning goal the last 2 seasons? When Gerrard and Torres aren't firing, its Kuyt and Benayoun who used to score 10 goals a season for us. Benayoun: app goals (Liverpool only) 2007–08 47 11 2008–09 42 9 2009–10 45 9 Cole: app goals (Chelsea only) 2003–04 50 3 2004–05 46 9 2005–06 46 11 2006–07 24 2 2007–08 54 10 2008–09 19 3 2009–10 39 2 Ten times better. Yeah right

When you quote me, please include the full quote, namely I said arguably the best in the world in their positions Lets go to only the nos 2-4, name me 5 players who are better rated as defensive midfielders, all round midfielders and strikers in their individual positions than Masch, Gerrard and Torres? Torres is not in decline. The team is just not playing to his strengths. There were more chances once they started pressing again like against Blackburn 5) Carra is indeed in decline. However, no top manager would play him in CB besides Rafa. Why? Because Rafa uses zonal marking which emphasizes formations and strategy in defending, rather than attributes (which was never Carra's strength) 6) Funny, they don't unbalance their national teams (except for Johnson), and play in exactly the same positions there. These are top national teams too. 8) Whose fault was it then? Where did the Alonso money go when Rafa wanted to buy Silva after purchasing Aquilani? Why did we loan out Aquilani who is doing well at Juve? Why aren't we playing our next big thing from Spain ? Why in the merry go round of creative players (Van Der Vaart, Benayoun, Silva, Cole), we got the free one, who coincidentally is the crappiest one?

What he left behind was arguably: The best keeper in the league (top 5 in the world) The best defensive midfielder in the world The best all round midfielder in the world The best striker in the world Turned Carra into a world class cb (which will never happen under another manager). And Holland, Brazilian, England and Argentinian regulars such as Kuyt, Johnson, Lucas and Maxi. BTW, Skrtel and Agger are starting regulars in their national teams too and are considered top young CBs. Piss poor team indeed, Rafa left us with.

Thats precisely the point. Rafa may have had a bad season. But he was building the club from the youth up, like Wenger has (who has the full support of his board BTW) Attracting even Maurinho or Hiddink is just a short term stopgap, as they were never the type to stay at any one place, as their record proves. Waiting for Carra or someone like that to take over? They have to prove themselves first I laugh every time I hear fans bringing up Dalglish as if there is some secret recipe to winning the league. You win it once, you have this secret. NOONE pre-Rafa has had to deal with such a dominant Manc side and manager, nor the spending power of Chelsea and City, nor the teams Wenger builds. In Rafa's 6 years, his rivals are: the best manager in the Manc's history the best manager in Arsenal's history the best manager in Chelsea's history (Maureen, or maybe Ancellotti as time will prove) and other lesser league winners of other leagues like MON, Erickssen, Scolari etc. Is there any doubt Roy would be proven inadequate? Is there any doubt even a league winner of another top league like La Liga or Serie A would struggle to win the league without backing? Putting unrealistic fantasies aside, how do you think realistically Kenny would do, with the backing Rafa was given? In this backdrop, Rafa has done very well IMO. I would go further and say, he would have won us the league at least once if he was backed the way other teams intending to win the league were backed Overall in the same period, Rafa was better than Wenger overall. Only teams with higher spending have won the league in the same period As for the arguments that Rafa was too busy playing politics, thats nonsense and you know it. If he was backed, what politics is there to play? Do you see Wenger or Fergie playing politics with their own board? No, because they are given the resources to win.

There is just something off about Roy that has bothered me for some time now. I just couldn't put my finger on it on why I dislike the man so much. And a lightbulb just went off when he commented recently about Torres and Rooney. THIS MAN DOES NOT LOVE LIVERPOOL FC Unlike even the foreign managers Rafa and Houllier who have shown genuine affection for the club and the people, it really seems that for Roy, this is just one of the many clubs to go on his CV, the icing on his cake like his short stay at Inter was. It really seems like he only took this job expecting not to stay long That explains not wanting to piss off his good friend Fergie That explains his disdain for the fans That explains his not defending our players That explains not caring if our top players will leave That explains the lack of understanding on our need to win trophies or even individual games (he doesn't seem to care based on his comments, whereas even Rafa and Houllier absolutely hated losing) The atrocious performances are perhaps a necessity evil to bring an end to his hopeless reign.

Flair players like Turan and Affallay should be affordable. Mata I doubt so unless we can afford Silva/Villa prices I thought when we sold Masch we should have gotten Defour AND Parker/Benaga Simon Kjær would be nice for the defence Quite a number of these have issued come and get me pleas

I don't disagree with most of what you said, except that Rafa's style not being purely possession based etc. I believe that was Rafa's goal, except that he lacked the quality. Our players were too British You can see this from his Valencia days, and start watching him at Inter now.

He's looked better than Cole. I would give him a chance, rather than offload, especially when we are short in creativity

You're right about Pellegrini. I was mistaken as I thought I read somewhere that he was 60. Yep, Joachim Lowe is interesting too. He is the same age as Rafa 50. However, although he has done fantastic things with Germany, his club record isn't great. Spain vs Germany in the semis was exactly what I would expect between a Rafa coached side vs a Lowe coached side, ie possession football vs counter attacking football. I have a suspicion a Lowe coached side won't do so well vs the Barcalonas and Arsenals of this world.

Rafa's Valencia was 5th the season before he won La Liga the second time Fergie's Mancs were 6th the season before he won their first league title under him I would have given Rafa another season IMO. He nearly won it the season before. He was in the midst of finally getting his own people in re the Academy and his own medical staff. He was finally given the power from bottom to top, the way Wenger is, so he could build from youngsters upwards with the technical and tactical training that he found lacking in Premiership players. He was building for the long term, the way Wenger does. IMO the long term strategy was to buy the best youngsters and build teams from the youth. Buying stars every year isn't a long term, sustainable strategy. IMO Rafa was perfect, if you are planning on building a stadium, and still challenge for trophies. He was our Wenger, and he did better than Wenger did for the same period he was here. Saying it was time for him to go is remarkably short sighted, and has led to the position we are in right now. With a positive transfer budget, I would be interested to see how Rafa does, as he has not been backed for 2 seasons, having to make a profit every transfer window. I would not be complaining too, if Roy is managing and we are currently in the top 6. That would justify Rafa's leaving, seeing that any decent manager could do a better job. As for the many lists of managers, its quite disturbing the lack of quality managers available Capello and Hiddink are both not long term solutions, and I suspect are not interested in club football anymore MON will be no better than Roy. Both only play counter attacking football Dalglish is interesting for sentimental reasons. However, I don't know if he can cope with the current competition and current managerial responsibilities. I also want to remember him with fondness, and would hate to see him fail Pellegrini also interests me. Gets his teams playing good football. However, he too is in the 60s age group and may or may not be here for the long haul. Mourinho, not a chance. We don't have the financial backing for him to simply tweak to win. He too is never a manager who wants to build long term. Just win and go to the next ego challenge I wouldn't reject any of them except for MON. I wouldn't take any of the young English managers bandied about either. Not unless they suddenly prove a surprise, like challenge for the title this year with some unfancied team, finishing above Chelsea or the Mancs.

So in your opinion, although you can't name me another manager who has signed players as good as these, and available, you still won't give Rafa a decent transfer budget and see what he can do? You probably can't can you? Because the obvious answers are probably Wenger and Fergie. Alonso wanted to leave for the money. Fact. Rafa wanted to keep him AND buy Barry. This was clear in the interviews etc. Its because we had no money, and had to sell to buy that this becomes an issue. Alonso CANNOT use the fact that we wanted to buy Barry as an excuse. If so, it just means he doesn't want to fight for his place, and wants an automatic place in the team. You'll judge on the team he left. So bar Alonso and Arbeloa, isn't this the team that got second place 2 seasons ago? Who's the idiot that loaned out Aquilani, a player who although played few games, had an extraordinarily high number of assists for the games he did play? Aren't we lacking creativity now? Secondly, you are judging Rafa on a team that has a NEGATIVE transfer budget for the last two seasons. Where did the rest of the money from the Alonso sale go? He wanted to buy Silva with that. Where did the Keane money go? That was for another striker if available. Again, I would love to see Rafa with a proper transfer budget. The MAJOR transfer buys by Rafa were all these "proven" and local Premiership players ie Johnsen and Keane. Maybe this is due to the quota, maybe due to pressure to be more local. I would prefer IF he did return, to continue spending on the markets he knew, ie Spain. The ones from this league seem to be lacking in tactics and brains.

Arsenal A manager who managed to buy Torres, Alonso, Mascherano & Reina, all arguably among the best in the world in their position (and to a lesser extent great players like Garcia etc), should be given the benefit of the doubt don't you think? Name me another manager who have signed 4 players like this, AND not made any mistakes. Lets get this magical manager, and give him the budget then. IMO Rafa's buys are comparable with the best managers in the world. Many of them were buying players to fill holes in our teams, then upgrading to better models. Thats a sign of our lacking funding to fund his first choices

Rafa. Unfinished business. Knows the club, most of his staff still here. With a transfer budget, will be interested to see how he will do

Well, it depends if you trust the manager and his style of play. Roy WILL buy players to suit his style, which is sit back and counter attack. Fulham mark 2 Whereas Rafa was looking for players who are technically and tactically good, versatile and preferably young, powerful and will play the pressing game. If we want to spend, lets get a manager who has a style we like, then let him buy players to suit it. These comments about just letting players play, God help us if we get a manager like that. Thats typical FM management, and surprise surprise, the players don't play as a team.

Who knows? But you lose the Utd customers, you might get the Liverpool ones. Besides, IF you own the club, you gotta stick with your own brand right?

I don't know precisely about the Utd bars, but the shops and credit cards etc are officially linked with the club. I am sure the pubs are the same, due to the fact that Singaporeans do everything officially Liverpool pubs over in Southeast Asia are just watering holes where fans gather. Not officially themed pubs

That is not the issue. I don't think Roy is so dense as to try and sell Torres, more that Torres would want to leave due to his crappy tactics

There are Man Utd shops, credit cards, sponsorship of Air Asia etc all over Southeast Asia. Where are all the Liverpool ones? He might very well be a Liverpool fan, but there were no opportunities to invest in the brand in Asia If anything, this guy at least knows how to make money off the name, and knows football, rather than someone from the US. He would do well to change them all to Liverpool theme bars if he buys the club of course, or sell them off and build bigger better "Anfield" theme bars etc.

Must be all the racists on board I see nothing wrong with an Asian chinese bidding for our club In fact, I suspect only an Asian owner can make money from actually owning our club, rather than an Arab or American, and definitely not from a local businessman. The reason is simple: All income earned in England, from tickets to merchandise to TV revenues and sponsorship probably would have to be reinvested into the club to keep staying competitive. Costs of players transfers and salaries etc are only going up, not including everything else and taxes Hence, whoever the owner would be would have to earn this income elsewhere, otherwise, owning Liverpool is just a big white elephant. At least in Asia, there is a huge possibility of making money through merchandise, themed bars etc as there is a gigantic fan base there with a growing disposable income This is not the case for any Arab country, and not the case in America (yet)

Typical fan who only reads the headlines. Maybe you shouldn't read papers if they colour your opinion for you Fact: At Valencia, Rafa was considered an ATTACKING manager. This was compared to Cuper and Reneiri etc. At Inter, Rafa is considered an ATTACKING manager. Eto'o prefers him to Mourinho and is scoring for fun again. He only gets this stupid reputation because he had to build the team defensively the first 2 seasons. No doubt, defence is important, and Reina regularly won the golden gloves or got runners up. The fourth and fifth season we were top or second to top in the scoring charts. Last season was particularly bad. However, although we weren't playing dashing attacking football, one thing most people missed. We would have gone further in Europe, and did better in the league especially considering our horrendous start, if we DID keep our regular clean sheets. We were nearly ALWAYS aggressive under Rafa. Always hounding and always pressing. No doubt we could not afford a Messi or Robben or Ronaldo to dribble through 6 players to score, but tell me Gerrard and Torres in full flight isn't attacking football, or Mascherano biting at the heels of the midfielders, or Alonso's beautiful long balls to the wings.

Well, see how much Roy generates from his player sales. Compare everyone from Houllier, Evans, Souness all the way back to Shanks. How many of them regularly sold players for a profit? Hell, compare to wheeler dealer Harry fucking Redknapp. He only knows how to spend. Tell me how much they would be to sell? No one would be crazy enough to buy his overpriced british talent. Compare with any City or Chelsea player. Will any of them be sold for a profit? The fact is simple. I hate the fact that we have to sell to buy. A team with intentions to win should be buying players, and letting go players who are over the hill. BUT if you have to buy to sell, Rafa has done a pretty good job

Its highly likely Rafa will win the league. And with the current Champions League team, I put Inter as one of the favourites to win it again. But somehow, even if he wins the double in Italy, both CL and League, the anti-Rafa brigade won't take him back, because they hate him SOOO much Very much so. The two cancers would be in worst shit and be forced to sell earlier (which I guess would be a good thing) if Rafa didn't regularly brought us far in Europe. Look at the profits we were generating year by year. And still no transfer budget, he has to sell to buy We generally made money with most of his players, as compared with Houllier's players. Compare his record against any previous manager at our club. Rafa's buys generally made more money after they are sold as compared to when he first bought them The rare exception that we lost money under Rafa, and would probably lose money are the Premier league players from other teams. This is the Keanes and arguably the Johnsons. (Lesson, don't buy fucking Premier league players. They don't have the intelligence to adept to his style) Name me ONE of Roy's players who are not on a free transfer who will be sold for a profit. Not only his "rejects" made money, look at his players whom he turned into top world stars. Look at Alonso and Mascherano's transfer fees bought and sold. How much do you think Torres or Reina would cost if sold?

He'll get alot of cash alright... after selling Torres Its obvious Roy doesn't let him play to his strengths Maybe we will get Zamora or Carlton Cole as a replacement to fit Roy's football style