HBenn

Yeah it was

Completely agree with this

In general we managed them much better though than we have this season. We also looked like hurting them more. I agree with you over the Brighton results etc and clearly there was a tactical change but Thiago was also fit for much of 2022. Without him our midfield looks nowhere near as good. In all the major games though we still looked very vulnerable through midfield and even at homes against the likes of West Ham. Clearly you cannot be at it every week but it was the same type of issues that caused us problems. Hopefully they will be addressed over the summer.

I was at both games and felt we were far less vulnerable in the 3-1 game. They may have had more possession but they didn't look like hurting us anywhere near as much. In the other game, the game at Anfield this season they completely bossed the first half. 2nd half we played better than we did in the first, scored two very good goals in spurts but couldn't hold out for the 5-10 mins left after we scored, with Hendo and Fab absolutely knackered and De Bruyne having acres to score the equaliser. Stats don't always tell the full story.

Be interesting to see how much they get from Barca for Lewandowski. Mind you at least Bayern, unlike Barca, should be good for the money! We seem to be really good to players that want to leave. Maybe that helps us to convince players to sign in the first place.

Think Morton will go on loan personally

Agree. See what happens over the remainder of the window.

I still think in a prem game its offside. I was watching the game in the fan park and it was all in French and they never put the lines on the screen but I have seen goals in the prem given off for that.

Some really interesting points. Not thought about some from that perspective. Our form from the New Year onwards was phenomenal. Had it been like that all season, completely unrealistic I know, we would have won the league comfortably. Clearly there was a discussion and tactical tweak in Jan. Based on Klopp supposedly being happy with the squad you would think that you are right and he sees that they can continue that form over the course of next season.

I get that it's a different game, coming at the game from deep instead of starting from midfield.Also Klopp ripped off some journalists head when he suggested he play in midfield so it's most likely a non-starter. However, I thought it maybe an interesting experiment if they play the role in a similar way and maybe you could go with Ramsay and Trent interchanging down the right in the short term. From opposition goal kicks in a lot of games at Anfield, Trent's starting position would be on the edge of the opponent's box with Hendo/Jones etc sitting in the right back area. Opposition teams would often then look to attack that area with some degree of success. If they are not able to bring in someone in midfield then perhaps they may look at managing that by playing Trent just in front of Ramsay with both having the legs to get up and back and create overloads and problems down our right.

I appreciate you cannot dominate matches all of the time, nobody expects that, but for us to take the next step we need to get ourselves over the line in the big games. We didn't beat anyone in the league that finished in the top 4 last season for instance, yet lead in a number of the games. We are also heavily reliant on a player in Thiago who misses a lot of games through injury. We smashed City at home a couple of years ago with our pace and intensity. This season they were the better team in both games and I don't see this current midfield able to provide that pace or intensity for 70-90 mins. The better teams caused us real problems in the space between defence and midfield, particularly targeting behind Trent. Whether that was runners through that space or overloads in that area. The fact that we still were having those issues later in the season suggests that we don't have a midfield combo that can necessarily solve it. That is why the links with players like Tchou made sense. Bellingham less so as he plays higher up. Clearly the better teams will still keep targeting it so it will be interesting to see what we come up with to mitigate it. Whether that be a tactical or personnel change.

It's too big a number and so imagine it will be reduced to cut costs. Whether the 8 offer enough quality or breadth is another matter.

I am not saying they are desperate, I am saying that even if they were they would do everything to avoid giving that impression as it kills your negotiating position. Using Alisson as an example. Clearly within the club they had decided they needed Alisson but weren't going to be held to ransom for him and so publicly they pretended they were very happy with their options. Then the price came down to a suitable number. For all we know, that could be exactly what is happening now with a player. Clearly they feel they need a player that gives them what Tchouameni would otherwise we wouldnt be prepared to pay such a big amount for him or be looking at similar players like him. How much they want a player like that or are prepared to pay for it only they know. I just don't see that it was one of Tchou or Bellingham as they are very different types of players.

Yes, wondering if this is the plan now. Trying to give the impression that having potentially missed out on Tchouameni they are a) not desperate for a player b) dont have £80M to spend on one.

Yeah, that is an interesting take on the attack I had not considered. Maybe it is to do with Mo going more than I had thought about or maybe they do just see him floating more than is obvious on first impressions. You could again well be right re the midfield. Personally though the midfield is a really headscratcher. We have lots of numbers, more than we should reasonably need, and yet we lack certain skills that mean teams are always in the game against us. I cannot see or believe that we look at the midfield options and are prepared to go again with it. Great attack, great defence, quality keeper and yet a midfield that is super fragile and missing some real key qualities whenever Fabinho and Thiago don't play (and sometimes when they do). I dont even think we need to spend huge numbers to improve our options. At the end of the day though, if Jurgen is happy with it then what does it matter. He will have us there or there abouts.

Anyone think (think I know what the answer will be :) ) that there is any chance that we could see a tactical switch that sees this lad play more often than we expect and Trent move more into midfield?

It does seem a slightly strange way to operate but you could well be right. That suggests though that had they got Tchouameni then they wouldnt have bothered replacing Mane (as surely they knew he was off when they were supposedly bidding for Tchou) and yet Nunez on the face of it will change the way we play significantly. It is interesting that they would be that fluid in something as significant in how we play. For instance, with Nunez as a focal point up front you would think there will be less interchanging and fluidity, so will Mo's role change as well? I am not convinced that we believed we had a real chance with Tchouameni and have had someone else in our sights with his skillset for a while. I just have a feeling that this will be like Alisson in 2018. We pretend that we dont really need said player all summer (in that case even as Karius is dropping it into the net in the warmup!!) and then when the selling club eventually drop their price, swoop in for the player we wanted all along. Could well be wrong!

The argument for new players is not necessarily about numbers but about quality, skillset and reliability. If Thiago, Hendo and Fabinho were as durable as Hendo, Fabino and Gini were in the title winning season then everyone would be quite relaxed. As that midfield does a lot of things really well. However Thiago historically misses lots of games, as does Naby. As they get older that is unlikely to improve. Playing a high tempo is key to the way we play and so we need players that are able to do that week in week out. Players susceptible to injury are going to struggle with that as is Hendo, who visibly seemed off it for long parts last season and while Milly is particularly fit, at 36/37, does he still have the level of quality to perform week in week out? Jones looks like he has potential but is he that great defensively? Wouldnt be surprised if he went out on loan or was sold. Jurgen normally never gives players a bit of a telling off in public but he did do that with Jones. As did Carsley. Maybe they feel he reacts better to that but maybe he is running out of time if his attitude isnt what they want consistently? Elliott and Carvalho look very bright attacking prospects but Elliott particularly is coming back from a bad injury and you can see their time being managed. Lastly their is the skillset. Yes we are heavy in numbers but we lack defensive pace and energy. There were a number of times last season where we lost control from winning positions (Brentford, Chelsea, Brighton, Spurs, Man City) and times where we were completely outplayed (Man City away with our best midfield playing). Times when midfield players running at pace or playing between the lines caused us huge problems (League and FA Cup finals, West Ham away and at home, Watford at home, Leicester away, Man City at home, RM CL final) and we were usually saved by poor finishing/great goalkeeping. The examples cited maybe fine margins and it completely is but in truth City will improve this season and if we stand any chance of beating them we will need to as well. Being able to play a pretty consistent 3 all season would also help. Not sure how we do that currently. Also, of all out options, we lack in all of them exactly what Liverpool were supposedly looking for - a player like Tchouameni. Athletic, strong, quick, reads the game well and that would have gone a long way in helping us get over the line last season. I dont see how Elliott, Jones, Carvalho or Hendo will morph into that player. They have great skills but not those particular set of skills and without that type of player I personally struggle to see how we bridge the gap. I really hope I am wrong. I understand that we want to wait for the right players and I agree with that. That said, I do struggle to believe that the only two players in World football that offer that are Tchouameni and Bellingham. Especially as Bellingham and Tchouameni are very different players. I also don't see that they have to be absolutely brilliant right now to get into this squad, they just need to have skills that some of the others dont have and potentially be young enough to improve others. I still think there is an element of bluff going on anyway. We have been linked to loads of the same type of Tchouameni type of player for months - Onana, Sangare, Zakaria - and the likes of Neil Jones were saying that he expected the midfielder we signed not to be Tchouameni and the club also made it be known that they didnt expect to sign Tchouameni. We would have known privately that Mane was off months ago and probably why Klopp was looking really intently at Nunez. We also would have known that with Haaland going to City, Bellingham would be a 2023 target. So what changed in the last 2 weeks? Personally reckon that the club are probably getting quoted ridiculous amounts because they think we are desperate for a midfielder and have a "Tchouameni" budget left to spend. By making it known that we are prepared to wait - albeit for a player with a completely different skillset - we can possibly gain more leverage in negotiations. Joyce did give himself the get out that we were "likely" not to sign anyone else and not that we definetly will not even if the right opportunity came along. If not, if anyone is going to get us close/over the line though it is Jurgen and his staff.

I never get how that works though. Doesn't Julian Ward just ring up Walcke (sp) at Dortmund and ask to be kept informed? Btw - no way does €90m euros get Bellingham. Love how RM are so arrogant that they think they can stipulate how much it will take. He won't go for less than £100-110m all in.

Sorry, I am not sure what that means. For me, at his best he sometimes wins a ball in the final third but invariably teams play around him and he doesn't have the pace or recovery pace to get back and we end up being exposed, his confidence drops and he ends up neither defending or attacking effectively. As I say, I would prefer, if he does play to play him in front of 2 holding players or one with real pace. Then let him just do what he is good at, driving at defences. If he wins back the ball occasionally then that is a bonus.

I agree with that description of Ox but I just don't see that pace or athleticism with Naby. He always looks like he is running through treacle to me. Maybe it's the injuries and the lack of games impacting his rhythm.

Agree with this. We have loads of players but not one that is quick and athletic and fills the spaces quickly. With another aggressive midfield winner I think you also would see the best of Naby, Harvey and Thiago. Let them do what they are good at. I agree about Naby, think he isn't really sure what he is meant to/how to do the defensive side and ends up not really doing anything really well consistently. De Bruyne has no defensive responsibilities as the other two are capable of doing it all. In our team people would say he is a bit of a defensive liability. Reminds me a little of us before Mascherano. Stevie and Xabi were great players on the ball but when they played together we were vulnerable defensively. Mascherano arrived, was rapid across the grounds and covered the holes leaving Xabi to control the tempo and Stevie to just worry about how to hurt the opposition. A beautiful display of a balance of skills complimenting each other.

So if we were in for Tchouameni would that suggest the writing is on the wall for Jones? Cannot see he would have been coming here as a 4-5th place option for the money they were talking.

I got the impression that Bellingham and Tchouameni were different types of players and that the suggestion was we would look to bring in a player like Tchouameni this summer and Bellingham next. Unless we really believed we were actually getting Tchouameni this summer - most of the local journos have been at pains to say we didn't - I don't see what has really changed in the last few weeks. These deals like Nunez don't just happen overnight. It's months of prep for big deals. The club would have known Sadio wanted out for weeks/months so I cannot see that would have changed our plans much either.

I am sure the club see it. Especially being so driven by data and perhaps even more so since signing up with that company that uses data to predict a players likely availability. Hendo and Thiago (possibly/probably Naby) are not suddenly going to be predicted to be able to play more games. Also, being hot on costs, not sure the owners will be so keen to have 8 midfielders for 3 positions cause they cannot rely on 3 out of 5 to always be available/have the diverse skills needed.