HBenn

Fair enough. All good points. I was going more on my gut reaction to it. Most shocking fact was that the Ox played more than him. Felt like the Ox barely played last season.

Again, you could well be right. No idea the angle the club look at these things. Priority at this point maybe getting wages off the books. Interesting to see what happens with the Ox now. Club making noises they are happy to keep him but he has played less than Minamino (albeit different positions), visibly looked fed up and only has a year left. Unless the change in tactics will suit his playing style more surely that is a negotiating tactic to get best price.

I am just a bit surprised that we didn't have a better negotiating position. £12.9m over 5 installments feels like Monaco got a player that actually performed when called upon last season for an absolute bargain. But like you say, overall it will be a profit, the lad wanted to leave, probably wouldn't have played as much with Kaide a year older and clearly there was zero interest in him.

It's like in their desperation to get the message out there that we won't be buying anyone this summer the briefed journos have linked us too closely to one particular player (Bellingham) and now they are trying to reduce the expectation that we actually get him.

Not sure it's a great deal. £12.9m guaranteed. Feels a bit low when you think what £13m buys you these days. All towards the pot I suppose though.

Yeah. Would tend to agree with that.

You could well be right actually. See David Lynch (not sure how reputable he is) saying his wages may mean he is out of reach next summer if that is when he moves.

Agree

Like your thinking :)

Yes. Still feel they are up to something this summer.

Oh right. Not seen that.

Maybe with him being 19/20 if he comes next summer he will be in that tier below the really big earners. Maybe similar to what Tchouameni wanted and supposedly we agreed wages with him. For him to come here think he will have to make it clear that he wants to come to us and only us. I cannot see us getting into a bidding war. Will probably look elsewhere if that looks like happening.

You never know, certainly one to keep an eye on Doubt it would be a sale this summer but could be a Naby style deal for next summer. One to keep an eye on. Denying a sale would happen while you get your business done would be sensible. There may well be a relative win-win for everyone. A premium from us that reflects a likely succesful World Cup and allows Dortmund time to properly plan. A price that ensures we get the player and can plan.

Dortmund are spending a bit of money...

Your right, we have way more numbers than we need but not the durability and breadth of quality in that area.

The way he describes himself, could have a young James Milner on our hands.

The argument for me is where are the legs in a midfield of Hendo, Thiago and Fabinho? I don't see how, for a club that doesn't like wasting a penny, we are prepared to spend £60-70m on an athletic, quick, defensive midfielder and when we miss out on him we are expected to believe we are "happy" with our options.

That was about 2.5 years ago. He seemed to struggle a lot more physically last season. Maybe with a break he can recover his level.

Yeah, you are probably right.

Why wouldn't we hold City as the Gold Standard? They have won 4 out of the last 5 league titles and as good as we have been they have been slightly better. They have improved and for us to beat them we need to improve more than them. Last season our defence was good, our attack was good and we had to chop and change our midfield most weeks which impacted fluency. History suggests you cannot rely on some of our best midfield players to play for the vast majority of the season, will that likely improve as they get older. It's the obvious area of the team to improve. We can still beat this City team as they hate us when we are able to play with tempo against them. Personally I don't think we can do that as well with the current midfield.

Agree with a lot of this. There is a big drop off from the 1st choice 3 and unfortunately there are question marks over the ability of those 3 to be available and to play a high tempo game for a significant proportion of the team. Neither Thiago or Fabinho looked fit in the final. Not sure Jurgen would have played them if he trusted their understudies. The links with Tchou and others show its not lost on the club. Think we will probably see 1 this summer and then 1 next summer.

Thank God we ended up getting CL otherwise Konate wouldn't have been here. Then it truly would have been meltdown for everyone!!

I think they don't play more offensive players because it would leave them too exposed. Klopp made the point earlier in the season that the gaps were too big even for Fabinho to cover. Sure, they have addressed that to some extent with what looks like a tactical tweak but it's noticeable that the more attack minded players in the Ox and Elliott have hardly played in the 2nd half of the season. For Harvey that maybe because they are managing his minutes but if Klopp felt 2 of the midfielders provided the defence enough protection then you cannot help but feel he would have gone back to playing an attacking midfielder on the right side as we looked so dangerous with that in the first half of the season. It was also noticeable that Klopp made the point after the Villa game that the injury to Fabinho was a double whammy because we were losing a player in an area of the pitch where we don't have much cover. I could see us bringing in someone to sit alongside Fabinhob at some point to allow us to play someone like Harvey in a freer role. Something I am not sure they are entirely comfortable to do at the moment.

I was talking about City progressing the ball and yes, they did do that absolutely fine through our midfield. If you really think we have progressed Vs City then we will have to agree to disagree. The first half at Anfield and at the Etihad this season City could and should have been out of sight. As I have repeatedly said though, City aren't our only problem though. A number of teams have identified a vulnerability in our defensive midfield area, one I don't think Bellingham is designed to fix, and had a good deal of success with it. The fact that we didn't beat any of the top 4 partially attests to that. They will target that area again this coming season, just like Chelsea did with a good deal of success in the two finals. The club will have recognised it and the fact that it is still a problem would suggest it is not an easy fix with their current players Maybe they will rectify it tactically on the training ground over the summer or maybe they recognise they need someone else but are not prepared to move until the price becomes more reasonable.

You can watch a game and see when the other team have a lot of the ball and don't hurt you much with it. I have been at plenty of games with Liverpool 2-0 up and felt very nervous and plenty where I haven't. Chelsea away for a start. City progressed through our midfield easier than they have done and a number of teams caused us huge problems throughout the season. Chelsea carved us opened quite a few times at Wembley and piss poor finishing saved us and at times we were much easier to play through than we have been. Hence the nerves. I don't see we have the personnel at the club at the moment to eradicate it. Maybe they will bring someone in, maybe they will try a different tactic. City will improve and for us to finish ahead of them or/and win the CL we will need to also. The obvious area is more control of plays through our midfield. How we do that will be interesting to see.