dockers_strike

7 hours ago, Megadrive Person said:

 

 

https://archive.is/2023.02.07-185105/https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/yes-manchester-city-broke-the-rule-but-the-rules-protect-the-old-elite-ftr25q2lp

He talks utter drivel. Happy to say I made a number of complaints about his inaccurate opinions when he was writing for the Wail.

Oh yes, he claims FFP is to protect the established elite blah, blah, blah. Yeah that would be Liverpool winning the title for the first time in 30 years and arsenal, the first time in 19 years if they do win it this season! He was also mouthing off about how 'great' it would be if arsenal pipped city to the title this year.

He cant seem to make his mind up whether he wants an old 'elite' club win the title or corrupt city do so.

The SKD \ ARE corner span that they couldnt get the crane in the right position to do the lift has now been put in position.

7 hours ago, VladimirIlyich said:

I think we have to be honest and say that it is less of a draw to pump money into a very depressed area of a largely grey,dull and dark country with no hope of profiting exponentially. This versus the lure of London and it's corruption filled golden pavements through it's financial 'City of London' institution with an easy money path to any part of the globe. Alongside it's easy to grease palms of it's politicians. In short,it's so much easier to wash and hide cash through a London institution than a North West one. 

I think there's something in this, we're seen as a provincial club in an out of the way part of England. The airport is pretty insignificant in the scheme of things. We've a vociferous fanbase that amongst other things, put a lot of financial noses out of joint when we engaged in the 'internet terrorism' to prevent the 2 cowboys getting new finance on the club. Glad I played my part in that!

Anything is only worth what someone will pay for it. I generally take these valuations of the club with a pinch of salt. Anyone who tries to sell their house or car knows there's a big difference between what you value them at and what someone else wants to pay.

Neither do I thing there's zero interest in buying the club, just that any potential buyers dont agree with the sellers at this point on the seller's valuation.

It's hard to accept chelsea as being a bigger draw than us given our storied history. But I believe the 'London thing' played a huge part in their sale. Was it just a sale at the right time and a mug in Boehly with others spending a huge amount of money, partly to make a statement or, does he really believe the PL brand is undervalued and turning a similarly huge profit would be easy? I dont know.

1 hour ago, Megadrive Person said:

It seems like United are closer to being sold than we are and they have a bigger asking price, need 1 to 2 billion spending on the Stadium and are behind us now in terms of revenue.

 

It feels like we are going to end up stuck with FSG going backwards.

Does it seem like united are closer to being sold? I dont think so. They've had one expression of interest, Radcliffe and he seems no closer to actually putting a wedge down on the table never mind near what the glazers want.

City hire 'top lawyer' 'Lord' David Pannick to the KC to defend themselves before the PL's independent commission.

Utterly heartbreaking picture.

If you have a child, you'll know. Please dont rep, I dont want any benefit from this father's grief.

2 hours ago, Creator Supreme said:

Nobody with any connection to Man City or Sheikh Mansour will do a single day behind bars!

 

They probably get a £25 fine, and a 3 game touchline ban for baldy bollocks!

It's a civil matter not criminal so yes, you're right no one will spend time behind bars!

4 hours ago, johnsusername said:

According to the latest Athletic LFC podcast (Walk On?) there's no sign of anyone interested in buying. 

I dont believe that for a second. What I would say is I dont think any state, organisation or consortium is prepared to pay £2.5b or whatever the supposed asking price is.

4 hours ago, VERBAL DIARRHEA said:

Not surprised at all.

Why? A chance to buy one of the biggest sporting clubs in the world with a huge fanbase and modern infrastructure that needs minimal spending on it and you think no one is remotely interested in buying it?

15 minutes ago, TD_LFC said:

 

I think they've removed some cup games so they can make them available to general sale. In reality it's more than a 5% increase because of those lost games.

They arent going to be able to report full capacity like they used to even if STHs didnt turn up for the games now.

Yeah, their STs included a 'prospective' number of home games in the domestic cups and Europe. They had to be drawn at home though for the holder to get the benefit.

Our STs havent been increased in price for about 6 years now and someone said 'Well, ticket money (about £26m a season) doesnt come to much'!

This is a player Jurgen has been too loyal towards. He should have jibbed him after his 2nd season here. If you're not delivering after 2 full seasons, you never will.

If the objective is to punish city and send a message to any current or future club owners that what city have done (if proven) is not allowed, then surely the punishment must fit the crime? That can only mean significant points deductions. If the points deducted are such that any PL titles won during that period would not have happened, so be it.

If the punishment recognises those points deductions means no title wins, then they must be awarded to the club who finished behind them, whether that includes the mancs or not or Rodger's team.

On 06/02/2023 at 09:55, Captain Willard said:

Looks like he shot her and the daughter then shot himself. 

These things just make me incredibly sad. Sad that on current understanding 2 innocent people, one a child, have lost their lives. Sad that on current understanding, a father and husband was so driven by such thoughts so as to murder his wife and child before turning the weapon on himself.

As I get older, I realise more and more just how precious life is.

10 minutes ago, Original202 said:

If they’re stripped of the titles then there should just be no winner that year. 
 

Had they played within the rules we don’t actually know what would have happened, they probably wouldn’t have been as successful but we don’t know for certain how those seasons would have played out. What about the impact it might have had on other chasing teams (Chelsea weren’t far off either in 2014 for example)? I don’t think it’s as black and white as saying you award titles to the runners up.

 

In any case, the moments have gone, what benefit is there to us as fans or the players to be awarded something now? We’ve nothing to gain but City absolutely have to be punished if they’re found guilty and a fine or suspended sentence doesn’t cut it. There’s no deterrent to anyone in the future otherwise but retrospective punishments are never going to be ideal when they go back so far.

So you think players like Ian Callaghan and others, who didnt make the match day squad on the day shouldnt have been presented with FIFA World Cup winners medals from 1966 about 10 years ago because the moment 'had gone'?

Jason Birt, This is what I would do if city are found guilty - fuck all!

If – and it must be remembered that it remains a very big if at present – Manchester City are found guilty of the 115 charges brought against them by the Premier League then the Sergio Agüero moment will be forever tainted.

So much focus is on what happens next for City if they are guilty of wholesale cooking the books – heavy fines, points deductions even expulsion from the league – but what is also exercising fans is what happens about the past?

City won three league titles during the nine seasons in which they stand accused of breaching financial regulations and three more during the five years of allegedly failing to co-operate. If those charges are proven should all those titles stand? And what of City’s six League Cups and two FA Cups?

Agüero’s late, late goal delivered that first title in May 2012, taking it away from Manchester United only on goal difference. The timing of it – 93.20 minutes – is emblazoned on the side of the Etihad Stadium. There is a statue of Agüero ripping off his shirt in celebration. It was voted the most iconic Premier League moment ever.

And yet if they are found guilty can it ever be viewed the same? At the very least there will be an asterisk beside it in the history books.

Taking away titles is difficult and such retrospective punishment does not actually appear to be within the powers of the independent commission, although there is a catch-all “make such other order as it thinks fit” which could cover that. Like so many things in this case, it would be open to further appeal.

Nevertheless it feels like a step too far. It will be hard for clubs to prove that they lost out on a trophy or, more pertinently for some because of the finances involved, Champions League qualification directly because of City’s behaviour even if they were seeking an unfair advantage.

Yet United and Liverpool may take note – especially with the words of Lord Justice Males, the Court of Appeal judge, who said in July 2021 of the length of time the Premier League investigation was taking “during which, it may be noted, the club [City] have twice been crowned as Premier League champions.”

City claim 'body of irrefutable evidence' supports them

City’s defence is fiercely robust. In a terse 79-word statement the club could not be clearer in its belief that there is “a body of irrefutable evidence” to support its case and that needs to be aired. There has been too much secrecy and cloak-and-dagger about all of this.

What the charges also show is that the Premier League clubs are at war. City sources believe that the Premier League has acted under huge pressure from other clubs and point to the fact that nine of them – Arsenal, Liverpool, Manchester United, Tottenham Hotspur, Chelsea, Leicester City, Wolverhampton Wanderers, Newcastle United and Burnley – wrote to the Court of Arbitration for Sport on in March 2020 to argue that City should be excluded from Europe while their successful appeal was heard. Wolves later pulled out.

In the early Abramovich years Chelsea also acted in a similar spending manner to City, provoking Arsène Wenger’s famous “financial doping” comment, and then worked to change the rules to stop others following them. That is also true but it is not a good argument. After all if the speed limit is lowered on a road it is no defence for a driver to claim he should not be prosecuted for speeding because his neighbour drove past his house at 30mph and not 20mph the year before.

'City feel their rivals have ganged up on them'

Even so the next meeting of the Premier League clubs promises to be spicy. City will feel that their rivals have ganged up on them. The gloves are off. At the same time this is the ultimate test for the Premier League to show how strong it is, whether it can prove there is no need for an independent football regulator (timely given the Government White Paper was due out this week) as it has decided to take on City and the legal might its owners have threatened to employ.

The sheer scale of the charges suggests that the endgame is not just a fine and a rap over the knuckles while City will fight every point. This will take months, maybe even years. In English football, this is unprecedented and potentially seismic.

There is so much going on here. So much potential ‘whataboutery’ and politicking – and geo-politicking – but it needs to be stripped down to the facts: if City have been caught out, if they have broken the rules, then they should be punished. And punished severely. Other clubs are sailing close to the wind on Financial Fair Play and this will serve as a warning to them.

City should not have their titles taken away from them, though. What purpose would that serve? It may delight rival fans yet would not only feel vindictive but, as already stated, it is hard to prove that the title was directly won because of financial irregularities. Even so those titles will be spoilt as they will forever be associated with wrongdoing.

Certainly though, if guilty, City need to be severely punished in a meaningful way that affects their future. The sheer volume of charges is shocking and warrants sanctions such as a very large points deduction and being restricted in the way they can operate in a number of subsequent transfer windows.

The bigger question is whether they should face immediate expulsion from the Premier League and there will be demands for that and the answer clearly depends on what is proven and the scale of it.

Instinctively it feels a step too far given the grievous damage it would do to the club and the people it employs but it is something that City might have to contemplate. After all, other clubs could then argue that they have been damaged, and had to make cuts, because of City’s behaviour. If the charges stick and the book is thrown at them then City can have no complaint. They will also have spoiled their own history.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2023/02/06/strip-manchester-city-titles-what-would-do-guilty/

If city's owners 'bankrupt' the PL with their lawyers time and expenses, doesnt that mean city wont have a pot to piss in never mind league to play in?

As Ive said, the EFL takes no prisoners to financial irregularities so city wouldnt get away with their shit if after bankrupting the PL, they applied to join the EFL.

27 minutes ago, dave u said:

Yes, but it's not specifically about us. I wouldn't be celebrating those titles. It is necessary though that the record is set straight as a warning to anyone else who wants to cheat like City have.

 

You can't let their 'achievements' stand, so you either have to award all of those trophies to the runners up (league and cups) or you leave them blank.

 

You can't allow them to have all of those honours on their record when they cheated to get them. Ben Johnson doesn't have Olympic Gold, and nor should he. Same principle applies here.

Thing is Dave, the PL is only responsible for the Premier League. It has no ability to hand out FA Cup or EFL Cups so it is only league titles and league positions prize money city won that could be revoked under this independent commission.

If this was in the EFL and the financial discrepancies proven, a club would have points deducted, even if that resulted in the club being relegated. It's happened to Derby, Bolton and a few other clubs.

It is bizarre a supposed lower level organisation has the balls to administer such a punishment to its member clubs while the PL will end up doing diddly squat.

I'll be surprised if Newcastle arent in for that Mitomo lad, they took the Brighton sporting director who was on gardening leave until recently.

16 minutes ago, Carra_is_legend said:

As my good friend said above, regardless of what happens they are tainted forever. I hope every single club in the country shout CHEATS CHEATS CHEATS when they play the horrible cunts.

Sadly, all the fans of those other clubs would rather shout 'Always the victim, 'Sign on' while droning on about 2019/20 having an asterisk against it.

3 hours ago, Ronnie Whelan said:

Unless I'm mistaken, us and the Mancs would get one title each from the time of the alleged breaches. 

 

It doesn't seem to cover the years we were battling with them. If it did, Ole would have a title and so would Mourinho. We'd have an extra two which would be nice I suppose for Jurgen and a great team (who for the most part are currently playing like a shit Accrington Stanley reserve team).

 

Think they are fucked myself.

 

A lot of low mood around here lately and rightly so, but this could really galvanise the mood in the club. 

I think they'll get off, Ronnie. Given the PL have done fuck all about everton's finances, I dont hold out any hope they have a watertight case against city.

3 hours ago, KMD7 said:

Be nice to see our 2014 team get their title awarded to them, especially Stevie. 

Would really love Stevie to get a medal.

2 hours ago, magicrat said:

I hold out zero hope of them  being stripped of titles. At most a points deduction for the season they get found guilty and whopping fine. All years down the road if ever given they will hire an army of lawyers which will run rings around the FA.

 

I suppose it may have some knock-on effect on the field ,and in the transfer market ,if every other club brands them as cheats  with some punishment possible coming down the tracks. It may also make it more difficult for their owners to bale if they decided the brand was tarnished but mostly I think they will get away with most of the shit and give the FA the big finger.

 

The game is totally ruined . Sky started the rot and cunts like Abramovic  filled their boots and now we have ended up with dodgy oil rich states laughing at the governing bodes because they know they have more cash and clout  . 

Tend to agree, i cant see them being stripped of any titles or given points deductions.

I know some people might not want retrospective titles handed out if it did happen but by the same token, I dont see how people can call them cheats yet they'd retain any title.

The off book payments to Mancini seem to be widely known and probably their biggest chance to be banged to rights.

Marsching on together!

marsch's sacking should be a chassening wake up call to our players. They fucking lost at home to this shower.

1 minute ago, House of Dirk said:

And they were so keen for an asterisk to be put next to our 19/20 title.........

The year after when they won it, grounds had no fans in them except for the last 2 weekends of the season but they say nothing about asterisks there!

Haha, city release a statement saying they are 'surprised' at the news!

Just now, TD_LFC said:

If this all goes the premier leagues way what you really want is for clubs to start bringing their own cases against City and just trying to bleed them dry.

 

Leicester finished 5th in 19/20 and 20/21 playing 'fair' I'm sure they'd quite like the lost CL revenue for those two seasons.

That's not going to work, is it? Imagine the outcry on here if we spent £100m trying to prove city cheated instead of spending that on players. Outside of us, united, arsenal, spurs, who else of the PL clubs are going to benefit or be better off if city are sanctioned?

1 minute ago, Poor Scouser T said:

Think the whole credibility of the league is at stake here.

Agree. But, Boehly's takeover group alerted both the PL and HMRC to financial irregularities and a web of dodgey stuff under Abramovich. Boehly wanted to ensure he had a clean slate and was allowed to 'claim back' about £150m of his purchase price for the club over this.

So there's clear and fundemental evidence that chelsea financially cheated during that period of ownership. What have the PL done about it? Fuck all because Boehly and his group got rid of the Russian ganster for them.

RIP to this terrible tragedy.