Supremolad

Failure to acknowledge history and the Old Trafford factor smacks of sticking fingers in the ears and just screaming la la la la. Of course we are the better team. Of course we could and should have battered them there. And it hurts that we didn't. But it is simply churlish to say "dont play the occasion". Utd vs Liverpool at Old Trafford would ALWAYS be an occasion fed into by history of the rivalry.

Even our 99 pt title winning side failed to win there despite finishing 33 pts ahead of a similarly shit Utd team. Over a period of 129 years, Liverpool have only won there 19 times in the league. 19 in 129 years. In the PL era, we've only won there 7 times. 7 in 32 years. It clearly is a tough place for us to go, regardless of disparity in quality. We can deny it all we want but occasional big wins aside, Liverpool football club just don't win many there.

Far too much talk and reactionary angst at our attack. One which has helped us be the highest scoring side in Europe with all five forwards well into double figures and numerous assists.

Maybe, just maybe if our defence could get their shit together we won't need our forwards needing to score 3 or 4 to win every tough game. Peak Klopp era, we were good at racking up 1-0 or 2-1 wins. But now we concede to everyone even to rock bottom sides like Sheffield Utd. Clean sheets have been a rarity since the turn of the year. Our defence is probably going to be the biggest factor in us not winning this league. A litany of errors and concession of silly goals. We need them to be better.

6 hours ago, Pidge said:

 

Still think Diaz should be hammering a shot across goal (although to be fair the pass holds up a bit more than I remember). Two players following in, I think that's what Nunez is anticipating as well, slows ever so slightly before then having to speed up to get to the pass.

 

On the whole I'm not too worried. We need John back on the pod to give some perspective on our attacking unit. We're so wasteful, but it's margins really. Diaz (although stretching), Dom (from Robbo) and Mo all fluffed much clearer chances than the above. Those were much more about just not doing the right thing, technically. 

Spot on. But I'm not surprised to see Code posting a video hanging Darwin out to dry on that incident and insinuating he has no game intelligence. He has showed game intelligence many times. 13 assists he has this season, which is the highest.

Our other forwards wasted far clearer chances. And in the past few games Salah for example, has failed to do the smart thing on numerous occasions. Not that you would ever see Code posting a clip of those.

On 08/04/2024 at 13:53, johnsusername said:

Great when he came on. Miles ahead of Dom Sob. 

There is no hope for those who cant see how good Elliot already is. And how brilliant he would be as he keeps developing.

Definitely being overlooked by some of our fans who take his talent for granted despite him having a very good season. One of the best in his age group and definitely good enough to very often influence games at the top level for a big club like Liverpool. He is going to get even better too as he hasnt peaked yet.

Think too many people's recent views on him are clouded with anger and hurt regarding his role in Utd's winner. Conveniently forgetting/ignoring that his goal did put us 3-2 up in extratime.

5 minutes ago, 3 Stacks said:

There's no principle about it. He's waiting for the Madrid job.

Yep. That's most likely already lined up for him. Spaniard going back home to take charge of Europe's biggest and most successful side. Hard to turn down, to be fair. He did leave us as a player to go there, so it's nothing unusual for him adopting the same stance now.

When people say that playing Utd often causes results which renders disparity in quality inconsequential, it's not because we are praising Utd for raising their game and playing top level football. It's because in many of these cases, the team which is better on paper ends up being dragged down to the level of the worse team.

When Liverpool drew there in the 2020 season, it wasnt because Utd were great that day. Liverpool simply didn't play to the high standards which eventually saw us getting 99 pts. It also happens to them too. Very often during Ferguson's era when they were the superior side, we also dragged them down to our level. Never rule out  our ability to drop down to their level in these away games.

We're better than them and should batter them on April 7th but it simply isn't a guarantee bcos the intense rivalry element comes into play. Even with Everton which have been an even worse team than Utd during Klopp's era, how many times have we gone there to batter them at Goodison? Only one 3 goal margin win over there in almost 9 years. The only other win was by a late Sadio winner.

Seen a comment above claiming Salah and Nunez had "shocking performances" and "didn't make one correct decision between them throughout the 90 mins". Firstly Salah only played 75 odd minutes and clearly didnt have great match sharpness on account of being out for most of 2 months. Still bagged a goal regardless.

I know the anger and disappointment usually makes some people ignore anything good but it's worth pointing out that Nunez had a direct contribution to the first two goals, laying one on for Alexis. And forcing a save which led to Salah's goal. Nunez also forced a couple good saves in the 2nd half. He made a shocking error leading up to their equalizer but it wasnt a shocking performance by any stretch.

47 minutes ago, JustTosh said:

Mid feb 2020 we had won all our league games but one - the away game at Old T (1-1)

Yep. I mentioned that in my earlier post in this thread.

We won 26 of our first 27 league games in our title winning season. The only game we dropped points in that period was at their gaff. We struggled in that game too and needed a late Lallana equaliser to avoid defeat iirc.

37 minutes ago, s(k)aturation said:

 

I just don't get the "we'll beat them because they're shit" thing.

I mean, yeah, we're the better team at the moment, but when we play each other all bets are always off.

There's always the chance of an unexpected result.

And anyone who thinks they won't be going crazy to fuck up our season in a couple of weeks... brace yourself.

We should win.  I really really hope we do.

But it's no guarantee.  Against them.  Ever.

 

 

Exactly. You would have thought people should know this by now. But I guess what has skewed our expectations is the 5 nil win at Old Trafford and 7 nil win over them at Anfield. Since the 7 nil especially, too many of our fans have gone into games against Man Utd with the mindset of "we're battering them".

Yes, we should expect to beat them because we are far better than them but too often, our games against them don't go by that reality. It's just the way it has been for a long time even when they've been better than us they struggled at Anfield most times. We've only won twice at Old Trafford in almost 9 years of Klopp's reign. People need to acknowledge the unique thing this rivalry brings with it.

Utd are shite, that's true. And we really should be picking up 3 points from there in April. However, it really has to be acknowledged that there is a weird dynamic at play between Liverpool and these dirty Mancs. What should happen often isn't what actually happens.

When we were great leading up to the Ferguson era, we didn't always beat them at Old Trafford even though we were on another level to them. Vice versa when they became very successful under Ferguson, they generally found Anfield a tough place to come. Even when we won the league in 2020, winning 26 from our first 27 games, where did Liverpool drop their only points in that run of games? Old Trafford. And they were shite then too, we finished 33 pts ahead of them!!

38 minutes ago, Code said:

He scored his last goal against a top half team in the Premier League in september 2023, this is a fact.

 

Your point about top strikers scoring most of their goals against shite clubs is absolute bollocks.

 

Lets look at our top goalscorer, then look at Nunez.

 

 

You are being deliberately daft now. You even excluded many of Salah's other goals. Selective bullshit at its finest.

Do you need me to explain how proportions or ratios work? Even from what you posted, the majority of Salah's goals (and assists) have come against the sides which aren't the top sides aka the minnows. Or you don't know the meaning of "majority"? Here, I would help you. You add the total he has scored against the top ranked teams and compare to the total he has scored against the others, and compare. Simple.

Also, Nunez has been here less than 2 seasons. He hasn't started in all the games against the top sides and has missed out on some due to injury this season and last. That also has to be taken into account. But I guess context is never applicable to you when you have a shit agenda.

On 17/03/2024 at 21:24, 3 Stacks said:

Hhhm, yeah, might be a mental midget. Guy costs twice what Gakpo did and he's only racking up the stats against the minnows. 

Bollocks. He had a direct contribution to the first two goals we scored yesterday. And won the penalty in the game vs City.

Also he has previously scored against Arsenal, Man Utd, City and assisted vs Chelsea. Yeah, he scores more against the minnows. But guess what, all top strikers rack up majority of their stats against minnows because 1) There are many more minnows in comparison to top teams and 2) Because the minnows have worse defences, top strikers tend to score and assist more against them.

I like Szobozlai. I do think he occasionally flatters to deceive though. And at the moment, he probably has an unjustifiable amount of arrogance to his game. Probably took the "next Stevie G" hype a bit too seriously. We need him to deliver more in these bigger games before that even becomes a conversation worth having.

1 hour ago, Mil-ing Around said:

 

He's not. The championship is his level, maybe at a stretch a lower league premiership player but I'm probably being kind there.

 

What has he shown since his injury that he's a top level player that can be a starter for one of the biggest clubs in the world? Even as a squad player he doesn't do much, either as a starter or as a sub. 

 

I don't want to shit on him, he clearly gets what it means to play for Liverpool. He tries his heart out but most of us would. But he has no right foot, no pace, little physicality, can't win a header, his pressing is weak and he can't tackle. Where does that leave him?

 

He certainly isn't a forward in the front 3. He just cuts back inside and plays the easy option 90% of the time. And he can't play in the midfield for the reasons above.

 

He'll be sold by the next manager within 2 seasons, I'd be shocked if he stays.

 

He might have 100 games but Klopp never shits on his own signings. We saw that with Kieta. He plays them and gives them time (far too much time sometimes) to improve. If Jones, Bajtetic and Thiago were fit I doubt he'd be getting as much game time either.

Load of nonsense. Doubling down on Elliot being a championship player simply shows you can't be taken seriously on this topic.

9 hours ago, Captain Willard said:

Sending 9 up for a corner in the last minute when the scores were level and leaving an inexperienced  teenager at the back on his own in a hostile pumped up Old Trafford was probably the single worst decision Klopp has ever made as a manager. Utter madness.  

Was it a Klopp decision though? I reckon many of the decisions in those situations happen spontaneously through the players on the field taking responsibility. Of course, Klopp should have said something if he wasn't fine with it though.

22 hours ago, Code said:

His decision making directly led to the mancs scoring the winner. 

Seems you have a selective memory, Mister Code.

Because you fail to acknowledge Elliot's goal also gave us a 3-2 lead in extra time. Which the team should have defended till the end but didn't due to an error by Nunez leading directly to an equaliser. 

3 hours ago, Dapower said:

I’m not sure if our new manager will keep our current medical team but I’m looking forward to seeing our injury record next season especially hamstring and knocks I’m getting the feeling for the last 2 years it’s been like a kid saying he doesn’t want to go school because he has a runny nose

Or sometimes, it seems the kid is OK with going back to school because he misses being with his mates. But his over protective parents (the medical team) stop him even when the headmaster (Klopp) wants him back in school.

On 17/03/2024 at 20:47, El Rojo said:

The Sparta Prague game isn’t relevant given how bad they were. He just doesn’t seem to be able to impose himself on games and gets muscled off the ball a lot for a big lad. 

 

Came on in huge games against both City and Man United and offered precious little. Hopefully he’s challenged on that by Klopp and that better follows, as he has huge ability.

Nailed it here. He does have ability, but the attitude is becoming more questionable by the day. Him missing chances or fucking up good opportunities to pass isn't even what annoys me about him.

It's the fact he usually doesn't impose himself in games. Too often lacks intensity and aggression. Even when fresh off the bench when he should be pressing every fucker with intent, he is ambling around while people who have played all game do the pressing. I know it feels flavour of the month to scapegoat him, but this has been going on for a few months now. Needs to buck up otherwise we'd be better off giving his minutes to someone like Danns.

19 hours ago, Daisy said:

Didn't listen to all of this but I don't think I've heard it be discussed yet how much better we look without trent and the inverted right formation 

Inverting the full back has continued in almost every Liverpool game since Trent's injury. Gomez or Bradley have often been drifting to the midfield areas in all those games. Not sure how you've failed to notice it. Confirmation bias or wilful ignorance, possibly?

In fact there is an in depth analysis video which praised Gomez inverting to midfield as the reason we gained control from City after our shaky start last Sunday. Just proves what some of us said earlier in the season. The new formation wasnt the problem. It was getting us good results but the performances were not consistently great at that time simply bcos some of our players were getting used to it.

On 12/03/2024 at 04:00, Kevin D said:

I’m not disagreeing, just football isn’t really reffed that way, even though it should be.

 

A foul is a foul, but refs bend over backwards to not give a pen.

They didnt bend over backwards not to give Utd two penalties last weekend though.

Both were fouls but the combined force of the tackles which led to the two penalties was less reckless/ dangerous than that which MacAllister didnt get a penalty for. We really need to stop making excuses for for the inept, cowardly officiating of that incident.

He's on fire. And his determination never to be labelled a tap-in merchant is admirable. 

9 minutes ago, El Rojo said:

In an odd way, I’ve slightly less interest in this now that we’re fielding an experienced team. Was hoping to see more kids getting a chance. Awful shame Danns is concussed.

Danns is on the bench tonight. I reckon he gets 45 if we were up by a goal or two at halftime.

22 minutes ago, Jordy Brouwer said:

Clark seems to be in front of McConnell for starts which I didn't expect. 

To be honest, Clark imposes himself on the game more and is more dynamic. Hence, I believe he does deserves to get starts. McConnell might eventually turn out to be the better footballer but at the moment, he doesnt stand out as more than a steady Eddie.

58 minutes ago, Code said:

Obviously they will get a big boost reaching the quarter finals for the first time in 14 years, instead of being knocked out and not having a game in three weeks. 
 

Then City away coming up.

 

 

"Big boost" can also easily dissipate at City where they are very unlikely to win due to their poor record there.

And "big boost" can definitely disappear as soon as they get drawn against the likes of Bayern, Barcelona, Madrid or City in the quarter finals. They struggled to get past a rather average Porto. They definitely wouldn't breeze past those other teams I've listed.