cuppatea

"we failed to complete the paperwork in time". No, the one where he actually said he turned us down.

 

What will be this summer's transfer disaster excuse? Let me guess, Rodgers is too shit to trust him with more funds, but he is not too shit to get sacked. Win-win.

So you do mean the "I'm sorry I didn't join Liverpool" quote then? Thought so. You'd have to ignore the words of our press, their press, our club and his club to interpret that as "Liverpool wanted me but I turned them down".

Aaaah "we lost interest".... Yep.

 

Well, Konoplyanka actually turned us down. Google his last interview after qualifying in the Europa Final.

The one where he expresses regret for the move having fallen through? I'm not sure how you infer he turned us down from the quote "I'm sorry I didn't join Liverpool", especially after it was widely reported in both the English and Ukranian press that he was extremely enthusiastic for the move and that both clubs came out and said failing to complete the paperwork on time was the only reason for the collapse.

Inter Milan have signed Medel, Shaqiri, and Podolski this season. Despite being a bit shit at the moment, they appear to have declined the opportunity to accept a gentle path into obscurity.

They signed Medel off the back of him getting relegated with Cardiff, and Podoslki (who from what I gather has been complete and utter wank there) on loan from Arsenal. It's hardly comparable the days of them signing Ronaldo or Ibrahimovic is it?

Then I can only conclude you don't know what irony is.

Ahh, so because Klopp became a manager that won stuff it means that every other manager will as well. The old Ferguson argument. 

 

Top stuff.

Of course not and I made no such claim (which you're surely well aware of). I was merely pointing out the irony in Scott effectively saying "we can be sure Rodgers will never win anything due to these reasons, so let's appoint this manager... who completely disproves everything I just said."

Also his record in the cups and Europe show that tactically he really has very little to crow about. 

 

He's not a winner, simple as that. I don't see it changing ever. It doesn't mean he's a fraud or any of the other stupid things people say about him. He just doesn't have what it takes to win things and he's not magically going to start doing it next year. 

Aren't you advocating replacing him with Klopp, who won his first trophy in his 10th year of management, didn't get past the opening qualifying round in his first foray into Europe and finished bottom of his group with 4 points from 6 games in his first Champions League campaign? It's a good job you weren't on the Dortmund board 5 years ago because your advice would have almost certainly been "Sack the manager. Klopp isn't a winner. He doesn't have what it takes to win things and he's not magically going to start doing it next year."

Man U had Moyes and were in disarray. Fact. Chelsea had Maureen in his first season back, and had yet to reshape, fact. Arsenal lost in form Walcott for most of the season, fact. We were not in Europe, fact.

 

I hope that helps.

Chelsea had arguably the best squad in the country, their best ever manager in charge and finished with by far their highest points total since winning the league 4 years earlier. Only Man United underperformed in the league last season, every other team near the top did better than they had in years. But keep downplaying our own team to denigrate the manager, while making excuses for all of our rivals.

Domestically you fucking bad beaut.

In 2008 three of the four teams in the semis were English.

Now we're in danger of losing the fourth slot.

Even domestically, you fucking idiot. The league was not harder when Man City were poor, Arsenal were spending fuck all, Man United were playing Alan Smith in central midfield, Chelsea were using Carlton Cole as a squad player and every team below the top 4 barely had an international footballer from a major footballing nation amongst them.

That's kind of the point. Our team was shite. Milan on the other hand...

And the year before Porto and Monaco were in the final. What is the point? That the standard of competition was higher when Traore was winning the Champions League, Kieran Richardson was winning the Premier League and Thomas Gravesen was playing for Real Madrid?

Anyone who thinks that Rodgers is a better manager than Benitez or that the standard now is higher than then is a card carrying prize fucking melt.

No one said Rodgers is a better manager than Benitez you daft cunt but you're right mate, the standard of football was higher when Djimi Traore and Jermaine Pennant were playing in Champions League finals. This shower lining up for Barca and Juve in a few weeks are a load of fucking shite.

Cech at his best before that injury, John Terry and Carvalho at their peak. Gallas, Ashley Cole at his peak. They conceded 15 league goals one season which is a record.

 

Makelele and Essien in the middle. Before the injuries Essien was a beastand Makelele the best around as a holding midfielder. Lampard would always score 20 goals. Robben has always been class but just injury prone. Drogba was outstanding for that team. The likes of Duff and Cole played their part.

 

But for us that Chelsea team would have reached two CL finals in 05 and 07 which they may or may not have won. They'd have probably won at least one given Mourinho's record in finals and still hate us for it (Mourinho hates Rafa still). They made the final in 2008 which they'd have won if Terry didn't fall over. They should have made the final a year later as well when Iniesta scored right at the end.

 

This Chelsea will get better but they were the finished product in Mourinho's first spell there and we had success against them in key games. Chelsea look better than they are now because of how bad everyone else is. The PSG tie gave the indication of where Chelsea are in Europe at the moment given PSG aren't one of the best either.

Chelsea's best ever league campaign was in 04/05, before Essien and Ashley Cole arrived. The year that saw the likes of Huth, Parker, Smertin, Jarosik, Geremi, Bridge and Kezman picking up league winner's medals, cruelly denying Fortune, Smith, Kleberson, Bellion, Brown, Miller, Djemba-Djemba, Richardson and first choice keeper Roy fucking Carroll at Man United.

There was 1 Brazilian international and 1 Argentinian international in the league at that time and now there are a dozen of each. Just compare the Tottenham squad that came 5th in 2006, with barely an international cap amongst them, to the one which can't get that high now, with internationals from Brazil, Argentina, France, Belgium etc.

Because neither are an unmitigated success like the previous list, Coutinho is hot and cold and often lightweight away from home, and Sturrudge is a cripple. Both players are good players, but they're not mainstays like Rafa's best signings were.

You discount Coutinho from being a succesful signing due to him blowing hot and cold but then include Luis Garcia? Fuck me...

More rivals! Rafa was up against 3 of the top 5 teams in Europe for a few years and had us in that ballpark for a few years.

 

The league has been a lot weaker at the top the last few seasons. Even this Chelsea side isn't a patch on mourinho's first Chelsea side we beat in those three semis. Now we're meant to be happy at pushing them close in a semi. United far weaker than under Ferguson.

 

The emergence of city has made it tougher for top 4 but the quality of the top 3 was much higher then.

 

Also Rafa was in Europe after Christmas every year so never had the luxury of one game a week which Rodgers needs.

The 2005 Chelsea side would get mullered by the current edition. There's no way the team which players like De Bruyne, Schurrle, Oscar, Cech and Felipe Luis can't get into is "not a patch" on fucking Smertin, Jarosik, Kezman and co. Squad players for top English teams now are £30m Brazil/Argentina/France/Germany internationals. 10 years ago it was David Bellion and Antonio Nunez.

Ritchie, who should we have got 3 years ago, what would have happened since if we had and where would we be now?

Great goal

Just on current managers.

 

Van Gaal/league winning before joining the Mancs

Pelligrini/league winning before joining the blue Mancs

Mourinho/CL and league winning before joining them. 

Wenger/league winning before joining Arsenal

 

Guardiola/Bayern No need to mention

Ancelloti/league and CL winning

 

Rudi Garcia- League winning before joining Roma

Allegri - league winning before joining Juventus

 

The main exception to the rule is Barcelona.  One club out of many of the top jobs.

I think you misunderstood what I said because that list doesn't refute my point at all.

The method by which Rafa and Klopp won their first league titles (being the best of the rest when the only giants in the league were massively underperforming) will never work in England due to the sheer number of financial juggernauts this league has.

I remember when our fans thought we were one of them.

What are you on about? Our fans still think we're supposed to win every competition we enter.

The best managers win semi-finals, finals, big games. They do it before they get given the best gigs.

Hardly anyone wins anything before they get given the best gigs. There are only a small handful of teams in each country with a realistic chance of winning trophies.

Tottenham are like us in the sense that the fans demand far more than can reasonably be expected and will call for anyone who doesn't consistently deliver that to be sacked. Give Mourinho/Guardiola/Ancelotti/whoever 3 years at Tottenham and they'll be in the same boat they are now, desperately scrapping to try and get into the top 4.

Without wishing to sound facetious, I think he'd sign players he rates and knows he can use, then play them in their correct positions.

 

I hold out no hope we can overturn the current top four, but I'd at least like to think I was watching some kind of coherent strategy from someone who believed they could. Sadly, I just don't think that's Rodgers any more.

Then why hasn't he done it in his last few seasons at Dortmund? His summer transfers were a disaster and he's been getting hammered all season for signing an expensive, misfiring Italian striker who doesn't fit the way he wants his team to play (sound familiar)?

We had a strategy going into this season and it was undone by Sturridge being injured and Balotelli being shit. It was either persist with a system reliant upon its striker, which clearly wasn't working with what we had available, or try and find a way to win without one. We've taken 40 points from our last 19 league games, which is half a season of top 4 form and yet the Rodgers critics, rather than crediting him for his tactical flexibility, hammer him for not sticking to a set plan. It's mental.

Klopp won the Bundesliga when the German equivalent of Man United were slumping. There is no German equivalent of Chelsea, City, or Arsenal and since Bayern have been performing to par, Dortmund have come far closer to relegation than they have to winning the title. If any manager had taken the Dortmund job when Rodgers came here and produced the last 3 seasons Klopp has, he'd have been crucified by the fans and sacked by the board.

I'm genuinely curious as to what you think will happen if Klopp is appointed here?

I'm starting to think we should sack Rodgers just to give us a 2 year reprieve before you lot start sticking the knife into whoever we replace him with and demand he gets sacked as well. No manager on earth is making us a more attractive prospect for top players than United, City, Chelsea, Barca, Real, Bayern, PSG, Juve etc and whoever comes in is going to face a huge uphill struggle to get us consistently in the top 4 in the current Premier League climate.

You mentalists can't possibly think a top class player is going to sign for us on the sly without his agent and his club trying to get the best deal they can for themselves beforehand?

The champions league final was the 2006/2007 season, thus not included in the ranking I posted. Not sure if you're serious about that other point.

Fair enough, it didn't include the final appearance but it still had semi finals and quarter final appearances in there. I don't think it was realistic for any manager on earth to raise our rankings at the point Rodgers took over (which isn't to say we shouldn't have done better in Europe than we have - we certainly should).