Benitaur

Nonsense already started

The fact that our boys did give a better account of themselves against the Scum is due to Roy's preparation of the team, not Dalglish's influence.

I will admit some of that might be true due to the fact that Kenny just came in and had no time to prepare the players physically to his standards

But who will bet against the fact that if Kenny does get us to fourth place or even better, and even win a few trophies, the media is going to give the credit to Roy, and continue stating that if he was to be allowed to continue, things would be better?

Does my head in.

He got what he came for, namely "Liverpool FC" on his CV up there with "Inter Milan"

That would put in good stead wherever he goes, which seems his intent by his words and demeanour anyway

He never was one of us, and it showed.

Hoepfully he'll ditch the 442 we've been seeing and move Gerrard up to just behind Torres. Something like this might work:

 

Reina

Kelly

Skrtel

Agger

Aurelio

 

Lucas

Meireles

 

Kuyt

Gerrard

Cole

 

Torres

 

Hopefully we've seen the end of Konchesky in a red shirt (that does however depend on Fabio keeping fit, which is like depending on the sun to never set if you live in England)

Maxi for Cole, the rest is agreeable

My point is if they were good enough players mentally, Roy appointment wouldn't of made a difference. The squad may look good on paper (International players) but are they good enough mentially..... the last six month as proven they aren't.

 

Hopefully, with transfer window open we get a couple of player that will change there attitude.

Rafa bought mostly captains of other clubs

Gerrard & Carra - club captains

Torres - Atletico captain

Reina - Villareal captain for a short while, and no doubt a leader in the dressing room even in the Spanish national team

Kuyt - Feyenoord captain

Lucas - Gremio & Brasil under 21 captain

Maxi - Atletico captain

Krygiakos - was a captain in one of the Greek clubs I think or for Greece?

I believe Meireles was Porto captain too.

If these guys aren't strong enough mentally for you, I don't know who is.

When tactics are crap, the results are crap. Simple as

You'll probably get stick from the usual boring gets, probably be called a Rafalite, Rafapologist or other such bollocks, but that is a great post mate.

 

Rafa isn't a boring defensive manager, it's one of the biggest myths in football. I saw with my own eyes his Valencia sides who to this day, in my 16years of going the match, are one of the best opposition teams I've ever seen at Anfield. It's all about him knowing he has the right players, and the confidence in those players, to impose his style of football. For the second half of the 2009 season, we were unplayable. Totally unplayable. The best Liverpool team I've seen in my 23 years.

Yep, his Valencia days and the 09 season we were awesome. With the right backing, the goal would have been to have the depth of squad to impose this style of play without any loss of quality when rotating or injuries hit.

Its unfortunate if Rafa finally finds the team that will back him financially, and its not us.

I saw the fear in Hiddink's eyes although he beat us in the CL in that year. I saw the frustration in Fergie's demeanor when we outplayed them. I would hate to be on the other side if Rafa finally gets backed and that team plays us

A further post after reading Code's post about Rafa and flair players, and in general managers who get the best out of players

I believe Rafa gets unbelievable stick when if you look at his record, it should actually be the other way around

In regards to flair players, by and large they are an inconsistent lot. You buy a player, you may very well get the next Messi, or on the other hand the next Denilson. And they are generally expensive as hell too and a big risk.

Now the criticism of Rafa not trusting flair players. This is completely untrue based on his record.

Look at all the flair players who have thrived under him like Aimar, Garcia, Benayoun or even Smicer. Now compare their careers AFTER they left and tell me Rafa didn't get the best out of them

This goes to motivation too. The criticism is that Rafa doesn't get the best out of players. But look at the Aimars and the Ayalas. Look at the Torreses and the Gerrards. Look even at Eto'o. Look at how other managers have done with these exact same players. Not near as good as under Rafa

Compare Torres under Rafa to Torres under Roy or his national team under Aragones or del Bosque

Compare Gerrard under Rafa to Gerrard under Capello, Sven, Mclaren or even Houllier

Compare Carra under Rafa to Carra under anyone else.

Who got the best out of them?

Also the criticism is that Rafa didn't get the best out of Keane, etc etc. This would only be a valid criticism if these very same players went elsewhere and became world beaters. But no. Most of them (that he is criticised for) just proved that they were crap regardless (Keane)

Yes, there are players who left. The Alonsos, the Bellamys, the Crouches. They all left for whatever reason (Rafa trading up). But you cannot say that they have done remarkably better since they have left. Their best years were still under Rafa.

Agreed. Wenger lost the plot and stopped winning trophies when he started believing his own hype and only want to play pretty but ineffective football.

Gone were the days where he wanted and relied on the Vieira's, Petit's, Campbell's and Adam's of the game to provide steel for their flair players.

The reason I support Rafa is that he had a clear vision and project. Anyone objectively who isn't buying into the nonsense the media is spouting will see this.

He wanted control over the youth, because the current system wasn't producing anyone. He brought in the Barca guys to at least replicate the system that would bring in quality players. Coincidentally, Houllier had the same fights too, because even though Carra, Gerrard and Owen came through, it wasn't enough for someone who oversaw the French national youth.

He wanted control over buying and selling of players, because under Parry, although he already negotiated and agreed with several class players, Parry going on breaks during the crucial transfer period meant that we eventually lost out on those players, and ended up with our second or third or worse choice

He wanted a clear transfer budget so he could improve our team year by year. Instead he had a sell before you buy budget, where even a profit disappears when he thought it could be used for squad depth.

I see NOTHING wrong with all of this. If our club had all these running smoothly and competently, there wouldn't be any problems and the manager wouldn't be demanding such things.

As for the "Rafa is a defensive manager" nonsense. Here are the facts

1st season, defensive, bought Alonso & Garcia

2nd season, defensive, bought Reina, Arbeloa, Crouch

3rd season, more offensive with Bellamy and Kuyt, and offensive intent with Gonzales and Pennant

4th season, second most goals scored, bought Torres, Mascherano, Babel, Lucas

5th season, top scoring team when team gelled. Keane was a failure though. But Alonso playing out of his skin

6th season, worst season under Rafa.

If you remember, we started offensively in the 6th season (look at our scoreline in the early games). But due to injuries to our CBs, we were leaking goals like a sieve. By the time we got some stability in the defense, we were too far back and already out of the CL. Also the loss of Alonso and the unavailability of Aquilani meant that our attacks were not as coordinated.

So calling Rafa a defensive ONLY coach is completely wrong. It was a work in progress. NO doubt that Rafa's mentality is defense first, then attack. But there is nothing wrong with that mentality. ALL winning managers think like that (and why Wenger IMO has lost the plot)

Rafa IMO is an attacking manager, as evidenced by his style of play ie pressing, playing high up the pitch, attacking with speed. However he would not sacrifice defensive solidarity for offensive flair. His weakness is that he was struggling to find the player to unlock defenses (where did the Silva money go I wonder)

If this were truly the only choices,

I would pick the one with the better credentials. The one with several French trophies, a UEFA Cup and at least a FA and League cup to his name

I definitely won't pick the one with 35 years of winning (I think) merely 1 title in an unknown league

If they want someone who knows how to value assets (IE. players) they won't hire Rafa.

Considering most of his players are sold for a profit or minimal loss, why not?

Really, they are not. Neither is an 'excellent' defender by any definition - Skrtel is headless, and Agger (when fit) is incapable of the basics - ie heading a football crossed into the box.

Skrtel is no worse than Vidic. Agger is a fine defender when fit. They look incompetent because they are playing deep and hence force into last ditch tackles, and backs to the wall throw your body at the ball defending.

Thats down to shitty tactics, and not using their strengths.

Agree - and Sissoko before him. Now we have the immobile Poulsen and the willing but inferior (largely because he's too slow for the shielding role) Lucas

i haven't said for a moment they are the type of player we need - merely pointing out that Rafa inherited those players who did the job for him. My point is that he simply cannot spot a decent defender with the sole exception of Arbeloa, who of course was his second target behind Lucas neill! Skrtel and Agger, Dossena, Josemi, Insua, Kyrkiagos, Pellegrino - none of these were good purchases. I'm not arguing that we need a slow combination of centre-backs!

Ah, yes. For someone who cannot spot a defender, Rafa somehow manages to create the team which won 3 or 4 times the clean sheet record giving Reina the golden gloves, and second the other seasons bar last season.

For someone who doesn't know defenders, his defence was the most feared during his time at Valencia

For someone who doesn't know defenders, he magically turns Carra into a world class CB when no other manager in the world would. And predictably Carra doesn't look near world class since.

Maybe it is YOU who don't know what a defender is and should stop relying on FM knowledge

Johnson, keane, Babel, Aquilani. That's almost £80m of terrible purchases. It's not just the cheap buys, it's his record as a whole.

Really? And Fergie or Mourinho etc have done better? You think Roy is doing a swell job now? Which manager can you name with a 100% record of good buys?

You might name Johnson, Keane, Babel and Aquilani as "flops" but they all (bar Keane) will go to top famous clubs when sold.

IMO a manager who bought us Reina, Torres, Mascherano, Alonso should be given more leeway for mistakes.

Mong. What's Rafa won lately? Oh, that's right, the jackpot from Liverpool and Milano.

He has won 2 trophies at Inter before leaving

Thats 2 more than we will win this season

Benitez left his mark on everything which still effects us today and contributes to the misery of this season. The academy, the players he left behind for the new manager, the funds he diminished...everything. And the solution from some is to reinstate this man? Fucking lunacy.

Academy has improved, getting a good group of youngsters, coaches from Barca that coached Messi, Xavi, Iniesta and Fabregas.

Players he left behind include the best keeper since Clemence, best striker since Rush and the most number of players in the world cup. Curse Rafa for not leaving him with midfield generals like Danny Murphy!

Funds he diminished.... what? You mean last season's negative budget? Rafa made the owners money in the last 2 transfer markets. So you mean Roy should have been given MORE money to buy the Paulsons and Konchelskis of the world? We should have gotten his preferences like Carlton Cole right?

Indeed poor Roy has to work with such handicaps, Rafa indeed left him in a impossible position.

IMO the ONLY reason they are keeping him is because the final sale was on the 15th of October. I remember reading somewhere that Roy has in his contract a clause that states that the new owners can only sack him 3 months after the sale

So I am waiting patiently for the 16th of Jan to see if he is still our manager. Otherwise the knives are out

I can't seriously believe that people are STILL advocating the return of the man who thought Johnson, Skrtel and Kyriagos were good enough defenders for Liverpool FC. Or Agger, come to that. For a man whose reputation at Valencia was based on solid defence, he sure couldn't spot a half-decent defender. Indeed, all the mainstays of his defence - Finnan, Hyypia and Carra - were already at the club.

 

Yes, Hodgson is a disaster, but I'm afraid the previous man bequeathed a lot of the dross in our squad.

Agger and Skrtel are EXCELLENT defenders, if they are played high up the field, which is the long term intent.

Yes, a Mascherano type player is needed to make doubly sure this system works

You only need the Hyypias and the Carras when you want to play back to the wall defending and defending deep high crosses

Mentioning Hyypia, Carra etc as the type of defender we need only shows either the longing to go back to sitting deep counter attacking football, or complete lack of football knowledge

Of course for some of us, the manager who brought it the best keeper since Clemence, the best striker since Rush, the best defensive midfielder in the world and arguably the best conductor of the ball and turned Gerrard and Carra into world class performers should be brought back to bring the club further towards his vision

But of course, others will only criticise his cheap buys, and his transfer mistakes. We had a world class manager.

We now don't and would be lucky to match Fulham's 11th place finish. Instead fans are spouting out nobodies like Coyle, Holloway, the German Rafa that has won less and is older, a unproven Mourinho assistant and even a underwhelming Deschamps.

Funny how our "fans" prefer these losers than a La Liga and Champions League winner and fan is available.

Benitez is one of the most qualified men for the job, despite what people say about "ship has sailed" etc. he'd sort this mess out and has the pedigree of getting teams (like us) into the CL and doing well, where we belong etc.

 

ok, let's appoint a "young coach" with zero experience instead and sink further?

 

It's a gamble, Rafa is much less a gamble.

Not only that, most of the players here are still "his" players, meaning they were bought to play "his" style of football ie press high up, defenders on half way line, sweeper keeper, zonal marking etc

Roy or other counter attacking managers would prefer to sell all of these to buy counter attacking players, like at Fulham, and have a target man to punt the ball up to. Many counter attacking managers are the same.

This means less investment needed to fix the squad. No total revamp needed, instead just adding on better players and depth and replacing players who are getting on.

"I know Sir Alex (Ferguson) is not really a Liverpool man so I’m a bit concerned about my excellent relationship with him.

I sincerely hope he forgives me for moving north and hopefully we can have a glass of wine together, maybe in secret."

Hope he remembers to stand in the correct technical area

Roy Hodgson argues for change of boss at Liverpool FC

Jan 3 2011 By Ben Thornley

OF all the voices who have argued for a change of management at Anfield this season one man has consistently made the most compelling case – Roy Hodgson.

There has never have been a Liverpool boss as universally disliked by supporters as the Londoner.

But it’s not just the regressive tactics, awful signings (Christian Poulsen and Paul Konchesky) and pitiful away form (six defeats in nine games with a goal difference of -10) that has turned the Kop against him.

Liverpool supporters have become accustomed to their managers being equally skilled as orators, a trend begun by the great Bill Shankly. Even the quieter men among the club’s roll call of bosses like Bob Paisley could be relied upon for cutting sound bites.

Not Hodgson. Barely a press conference goes by without the former UAE coach embarrassing himself and the club, alienating a player or enraging fans.

Here is a collection of the worst efforts of his first – and hopefully only – six months in charge:

I preferred to put my weight behind David Ngog and Ryan Babel, who's never really been given a proper chance at centre-forward at the club. I'm hoping that between now and Christmas we'll have ample quality to see us through that period.

On not buying another striker

A club like Liverpool shouldn't have to rely on non-specialists like Dirk Kuyt or Ryan Babel ‘doing a job’ up front when they are primarily wide players.

Hodgson changes his mind a month later.

They'll be a formidable challenge – there's no question about that.

On Carling Cup opponents, struggling league Two side Northampton

I thought we did quite well when (Northampton) they took the lead in the extra time and we threw caution to the wind it gave us the equaliser.

Hodgson uses the words ‘throw caution to the wind’ about playing a League Two side. At Anfield.

That was as good as we have played all season..... To get a result here – against Everton – would have been Utopia.

After the wretched loss to Everton

I know Sir Alex (Ferguson) is not really a Liverpool man so I’m a bit concerned about my excellent relationship with him.

I sincerely hope he forgives me for moving north and hopefully we can have a glass of wine together, maybe in secret.

Hodgson endears himself to Liverpool fans everywhere

I prefer to talk about the game and talk about issues that interest me. Mr Ferguson is entitled to any opinion he wants to have but I'm not going to come here and say I agree or disagree.

Hodgson refuses to defend Fernando Torres against accusations of cheating

I understand (Frank) Rijkaard has just been sacked from Galatasaray – he must be a great manager to have been sacked by Galatasaray.

'Nice guy' Roy on the Champions League and La Liga winning manager

You would have to ask (Glen Johnson) 'do you think you're playing at top form and are you playing like the best right-back in the country for your club?' If he says yes, obviously we will have to agree to differ and if he says no, then you'd have to ask the question 'why not?

Showing his man-management skills

The protest does not help but it is something I have had to live with since I came to the club.

Criticising the fans’ protest against the club’s former owners

I was disappointed – and I've told him this – that he – Dalglish – applied for the job in the summer because I don't think that was ever really going to happen for him.

Putting Liverpool legend Dalglish in his place, a man who has won more trophies than Hodgson has Premier League away games in his entire time in England

I've been involved in some big derbies in my career and you know how much they mean to the fans.... I didn't like losing in those games, which I did quite often. I did poorly so it would be nice to change that.

Hodgson shows he’s the man for the big occasion before losing 3-2 to Manchester United.

He’s a quality player and we will be working hard on our tactics to make sure he doesn’t dominate the game.

No, not Lionel Messi, rather Fulham’s Danny Murphy, who was sent packing by Liverpool six years ago.

I think it would be a sad day for football and for Liverpool if someone who had been brought in with the pomp and circumstance, and the money it took them to release me from my previous contract, and being feted as one of England's best managers – if after eight games people are deciding this guy has got to go

Showing his modest side.

Are you from Denmark? (No, Norway replied the journalist) Ah, two countries I never want to work in again.

Insulting a Norweigian journalist and a large part of Liverpool’s fan base.

We have got a lot more expensive failures on our list than good players that we have brought in for next to nothing.

Having a dig at Champions League winning former Reds boss Rafa Benitez and his transfer record

What do you mean do my methods translate? They have translated from Halmstad to Malmo to Orebo to Neuchatel Xamax to the Swiss national team. So I find the question insulting. To suggest that, because I have moved from one club to another, that the methods which have stood me in good stead for 35 years and made me one of the most respected coaches in Europe don’t suddenly work, is very hard to believe.

Reeling off some of the massive clubs he’s managed. Not so much a who’s who of European football as a who are they?

Today was a famous victory

No, not Liverpool’s win in Istanbul but a 1-0 triumph over Bolton at the Reebok.

There aren't many quality left-backs around in the world, never mind in England – so to find an English one ( Paul Konchesky) who can go straight into the team without any adjustment problems is a big advantage.

Hodgson, who sold Roberto Carlos to Real Madrid while manager of Inter Milan, knows a good left back when he sees one.

Christian (Poulsen) is an all-round player. He is capable of scoring goals, a good passer of the ball and a good defender.

After paying £4.5m on the 30-year-old plodder.

He's not that bad on the ball.

After seeing him play.

It is very early for me to make very strong judgements about where his best position is.

Hodgson shows the depth of his research on £11.5m signing Raul Meireles, who has played his entire career in central midfield. Until he came to Anfield.

I don't understand questions about Liverpool and Fulham players being different types

Who said Hodgson doesn’t grasp how big a club Liverpool is?

I've had several bad experiences. Even at Halmstad in the 70s, in the year we won our second championship, it took until the second half of the season to win our first game away and that broke a record going back two seasons. We went over two seasons without winning an away game.

On his wretched away form throughout his career.

Fans make their frustrations felt every time we lose, but unfortunately they may have to do that a few more times, because I can't see us going through a season winning every game.

Roy promises the good times are going to roll again after the 2-0 defeat to Stoke

I don't know where the stories came from that Gerrard would be fit for Newcastle.

From your Head of Sports Medicine Dr Peter Brukner, Roy.

It's not as if he'll be playing with a bunch of also-rans. I'm not asking him to play in the reserves.

Asking Torres to play against Utrecht while also motivating his reserves

I thought it would be a nice game for him (Torres) and a chance for him to get his confidence back. But I also had a talk to our fitness people and they made me see sense that it wasn't the wisest thing to do.

Revealing who picks the team.

I think we will cross that bridge when we come to it... I am not naive to believe there won’t be any danger and we will never lose a player like Torres, I understand these things can happen

Issuing a stern hands-off Torres warning to pal Ferguson. Well, kind of.

When it was mooted the club wanted me for the job I made it clear to Kenny I wanted him on board and it wouldn’t be like it was with Benitez where he’d be here in name only. It wouldn’t be the case that Kenny would be never be allowed to step foot into Melwood.

Having another dig at the Spaniard, a claim which was exposed as a lie by the Champions League winning manager

He's not so much a player I can really take responsibility for. I'd have to share the responsibility for Joe, less so than for people like [Christian] Poulsen, [Raul] Meireles and [Paul] Konchesky, who are players I was quite happy to bring to the club.

Washing his hands of Joe Cole a week before the former Chelsea midfielder earns Liverpool a 2-1 victory over Bolton

Ever since I came here, the famous Anfield support hasn't really been there.There was the problem with the owners and Kenny being so popular and the job going to me, so I have had to live with that. I have to hope the fans will become supporters because we need support. We are not deliberately losing games.

Roy puts the final nail in his coffin

Link

THB he sounds interesting, but all he is is an inferior Rafa

Same demands, similar football philosophy, similar personality type, similar age. Alot less trophies and successes.

In comparison, might as well take Rafa back if this guy is the target

Can't be doing with a Benitez mark 2, even if he builds a good squad like Rafa did at times during his career here then he will more than likely dismantle it when falling out with players like Rafa also did here and we'll be back at square one, we need someone who will always put the team ahead of their own self and ego.

Thats right! God forbid we go for any winners!

Rule out strong headed managers the likes of Rafa, Wenger, Maurinho, Fergie, Capello, Hiddink, now this guy Ralf!

We should get mamby pamby ones like Roy here. Absolutely perfect for the job. Maybe someone like Sven, who sucks up to his star players

Found out he is an exponent of zonal marking too

Truly Rafa 2.0

I think majority of teams in Germany work with DoF.

 

Just unsure how he would handle a big team and big team players.As someone else said he could be next Wenger or Gross.

He joined Hoffenheim although in a lower league because they offered him total control. He resigned because the club sold a player he didn't want sold

Follows Sacchi's philosophy, plays with his team pressing high up the field, absolutely hates to lose, wants total control over the club and players.

Sounds more like Rafa than Wenger or Gross to me

Hoffenheim are proving success is not always down to money - Times Online

 

“My football ideal is Arrigo Sacchi’s Milan,” Ralf Rangnick, their manager, said. “Be aggressive in the press, never pass the ball backwards, be quick and direct in possession, move in unison.”

The more I read about him, the more I like him. Sounds like a nutter though and probably won't work with a director of football

Another of Sacchi's students. I liked the last one too

All these voters are spot on:

 

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You can check? Who are the 4 that voted no then?

09/10:

9. Fulham 19 7 6 6 24-19 27p

 

10/11:

9. Liverpool 19 7 4 8 23-24 25p

Don't you know, poor Roy has to deal with the shitty players Rafa left him

Once he gets the big guns he requires, like Carlton Cole or Bobby Zamora, THEN you'll really see us flying and playing like the glory days of Fulham