Benitaur

We won't be relegated then? *phew*

This is the only statement that is important Benitez's real strength has been his ability to develop a promising group of young players into a stronger force than Real Madrid.

IMO like it or not, like Dalglish, they really have to get Rafa back Whether you believe he can or cannot do the job successfully, he will always be the shadow over the manager's job And every manager, one after another that fails, will have this extra burden over him. So the new manager, no matter who he is, will have to succeed instantly, whether that means top 4 immediately, or win a international trophy (Uefa cup) Its better to, like with Dalglish, hire him, and if he fails, fire him. Then, only then, will the fans be able to move on, and the owners hire whoever they want. Otherwise, like Dalglish for 20 years, Rafa will be a name chanted from the stands whenever our team plays badly

Not a current player, but I would love to see Biscan in a trench coat on the sidelines Worth a good laugh

Lived in Benitez's shadow the last few years

After this win, I hope they are obligated to give Lampard, Drogba and Terry 10 year contracts

IMO the season really fell apart when Lucas got injured. Since then, our defense hasn't been the most solid, and we had a soft centre, never really being able to control the midfield I don't blame Kenny for the Suerez incident. I blame whoever it was in the club who was in charge of the PR. The exact same accusation is thrown at Messi. Any 8 match ban? Any condemnation? Nada, nothing. Same thing about Terry. Hell, its a actual court case, and he was still considered for the England captaincy, still highly regarded by the fans and media. All the while Suarez is booed like a pariah. Thats ridiculous for a club of our stature having so little respect from the media One thing I do think Kenny is to blame for is our playing style. We were playing fantastic stuff last season with Suarez, Mereiles, Maxi, Lucas, Kuyt. I reckon Gerrard would fit right in (he was injured last season), as would Bellamy, Aquilani and Cole. Real pass and move stuff. I believe Henderson would have fit in that style (he does have the skill and the touch), and Carroll too may be young enough to learn and fit it. He shouldn't have changed the team too drastically too soon. Downing and Carroll were obviously a change in style (winger crossing in, or route one stuff). Even with them being brought in, there is no harm in letting them in slowly, one by one replacing the senior players who were playing excellent stuff. Isn't that the old Liverpool way, buying players and SLOWLY introducing them from the reserves? Instead we had wholesale changes, where all the new buys were crammed into the team from day 1 this season. And although the media and some fans say we played excellent stuff, and we did, it was more disjointed individual brilliance, rather than concerted team efforts for the most part. This is precisely the "let the players do their thing" type of football that people criticise Benitez of not being allowed to do. Unfortunately, when things don't go according to plan, they look clueless

From: Date: 10 June 2010 12:40 Subject: Re: Thank you for killing my club To: Jim Boardman < > Jim, I’m sorry you think like that but you are entitled to your opinion. I note your opinion doesn’t seem to be shared by the media. You may also recall that I am Chairman with the principle remit of finding a new and suitable owner for the club. I am nevertheless Chairman and I’m surprised you don’t seem to think that releasing the manager from his contract is a Board matter. Martin Broughton Source: Broughton responds to criticism of Rafa’s departure | Anfield Road

Of course, you have no points, and can't prove anything, no stats, not points, just Sky written opinions , as I have claimed again and again throughout this thread So go off with your tail between your legs.

He played in the middle behind the strikers in the second half of the CL final. When Milan brought on Serginho, Gerrard was moved to RB to accomodate this tactical change. Don't worry, these tactical nuances probably completely escaped you. And you mean the Steven Gerrard final, the 2006 FA Cup, where he scored a thumper, and he played on the RIGHT? So Benitez played him more in the centre, thats why his best seasons were on the right, and behind Torres, and he kept looking for more CMs, like Alonso, Sissoko, Mascherano, Lucas etc. Surely sounds like a manager who trusts him. He must have played tons for England in CM too. Oh wait... he's moved all over the place too Benitez can't stand midfielders who go more than 10 metres from the centre line? Thats why he gets Gerrard to score 20+ goals on the right and behind Torres eh? Thats why he keeps looking for midfielders who score 10 goals a season eh ? Funny how you view the final season as "how Benitez wants to play", and totally disregard 2009 form. Somehow for all the Rafa haters, 2009 is where Rafa let them loose to just do whatever they want, right? Unfortunately the Valencia crushing machine proves this wrong, and shows that the 2009 form was how Rafa wants the team to play all along That must be why attacking players like Gerrard, Torres, Aimar, Eto'o all thrive under him. They must have gone on to greater things right? Nope. Not even close Heck, even players like Benayoun, Garcia etc have had the best form of their lives under Rafa. How have they gone since then, huh? Again, show me how Gerrard and Torres have been world class since? How about Aimar? He was sold for 5 million a few years after Rafa left, while he was rated world class when Rafa was at Valencia. Your definition of world class seems very loose. Show me how Gerrard was world class before Rafa came. How was his goal scoring? He must have been scoring 20 a season right? Nope. You somehow seem to forget, we were the Michael Owen show before Rafa took over. Gerrard showed some glimpses in Houllier's final 2 years, but world class as in top 5 in the world in CM? Not a chance Players like C Ronaldo, Tevez improved AFTER they left Ferguson. So thats a clue that they would have become world class after all. Wenger gets forever to turn his potentials into stars. It took him 4 years before Fabregas "suddenly" became world class. How many years have Robin Van Persie been with Arsenal before he consistently became the striker he is today? Now compare this to Benitez. Torres broke all scoring records in his first 2 seasons. Gerrard "suddenly" became a 20+ goal a season player. How many attacking players have done better after they left Benitez? It is clear that you either never watch the matches, or have no clue whats been going on. You can even get any stats to back up anything.

Steven Gerrard, "one of the best centre mids in world football"? So much so, none of the managers trust him there? No one since Houllier have trusted him in that position. His best position, as proven by goals and assists have been on the right, and behind the striker. PROVEN. FACT BTW did you even watch the Champions League finals in 2005? Gerrard partnered Alonso in central midfield, and we were trashed 3-0!!!! Only when Rafa replaced Finnan, moving Gerrard to a free role to RB as well as behind the strikers, and put Hamann next to Alonso did we start out fight back. Your football knowledge is laughable "Its why we won the champions league" indeed. Pathetic Gerrard was good, very good pre-Rafa. That I do not deny. But like Fernando Torres in A. Madrid , he was potential world class. Nothing proven yet. He had not yet climbed to the upper echelons of world recognition. Losing all your arguments, so you resort to calling me a cunt? Proves what a simpleton you are really.

It is one thing to go back to a former legendary manager, who was boss 2 decades ago and expect miracles. It is another thing to go back to a former manager, who is still regarded as one of the top managers in the world, who's team and backroom staff are still mostly intact, and who left with unfinished business, and hope to get back on track Yes Kenny left with unfinished business. But that was 20+ years ago! I wouldn't bring Rafa back if most of the players have changed as have most of the staff. However, this is still pretty much his team

LOL, Carra hates him double huh? Like it or not, Gerrard and Carra became world class because of Rafa. Not the other way around. I fail to see how their word suddenly becomes the last word. There was a mutiny at Valencia too, but over the years, even the players themselves admit that without Rafa, they were nothing. And since when did Moores and Parry suddenly became the good guys again, after selling the club to H&G? Enemy of my enemy is my friend type thing is it? As for the press officer, he should just fuck off. Look at how the other clubs handle their affairs. Do you see Terry having as much a hard time in the media as Suarez? I don't see Barca sweating at all, when Messi is accused of exactly the same thing as Suarez Someone's to blame for the media incompetence, and it surely isn't Kenny. If anything, its just another example of how unprofessional our club has been run for decades. Look at how hard Rafa has been fighting over the years for control of the academy, bringing in the Barca coaches. Now the much praised academy is doing well, but not too long ago this was another albatross hung on Rafa's neck

If its not a blip, then you have a very short memory We improved year by year, and suddenly, the final year we crashed to 7th. Thats clear as day, and the stats prove this. Our league position was 5,3,3,4,2 THEN 7. Our goal difference was improving year by year too. 11, 32, 30, 44, 50 THEN 26. Our style improved too. We started off defensively the first 2 years, then got a strong spine, then started playing damn good attacking football. This is what typically all good managers do. Improve the defense, then improve the midfield and attack. Unfortunately, only the defensive part is remembered by some people There is no coincidence that we started improving when he was allowed to splurge on Torres, Mascherano etc. The moment he has a decent budget, we improved tremendously in quality The final year, we had to sell Alonso. Yes we bought Aquilani who was injured most of the season, but the extra money was supposed to go for Silva too. Again, sabotaged. Wheeling and dealing is all good and well if you get to use all the money. It fails when you have to use the profits to pay for the owner's loan. So is the final season a blip? Based on the pattern, yes. Its not as if we were on a downward slide. We finished 2nd the season before, edged by only 4 points, and was the top scoring team in the league, scoring goals for fun against the Mancs, Real, Arsenal, Chelsea, Villa etc. Statistically, our 2009 team played better, scored more goals, had a better goal difference, had more points than all our previous years going all the way back to 1988, and yet we didn't win the league. 2010 was the year we were supposed to win the league, instead we dropped to 7th. Instead of being financially backed to take the final step, instead our owners thought we were good enough, and we got the carpet pulled from under us.

If he is given the financial backing like KK, 100 million I expect minimum 4th place the first season. If he has to wheel and deal, I would reckon realistically 3 years, provided he improves every season, and his first season is at least an improvement from this (higher than 8th) As for winning, winning cups are great, but we must still be relevant. Not mid table.

I think Benitez's only requirement is to be backed, and given a chance to succeed. A decent budget every season, and the freedom to wheel and deal the players on his books to improve the team. This has always been his contention with Valencia, Liverpool and Inter. This is no secret, and weirdly enough this is what the detractors hang on his neck. Surely owners that allowed Dalglish to spend 100+ million on local dross would trust a manager who brought Torres, Alonso, Masch, Reina, Agger, Skrtel etc etc would be able to give him 20-30 mil a season plus whatever he makes on sales? Surely that is not unreasonable? All his first choice players have gone on to great things, making me always wonder "what if he was backed?" Its frustrating that for the money we bought Carroll, Henderson, Downing and Adam for, we could have gotten Aguero, Silva, Mata and god knows who else. If not them, someone else he scouted as second or third choice would surely still be better with what we got instead.

Again, facts? Your own words were your reason for hating him was he's stubborn. I shot your only point down, so you call me brainwashed? You really don't have an argument, so name calling it is eh?

Oh so thats it. He makes decisions that YOU disagree with. Although his win percentage is the best of all our recent managers by a mile, and comparable with the best in the world. But of course, YOU would have a 100% record eh? And hes STUBBORN? Well shit. Here's a list. Capello, Mourinho, Hiddink, Fergie, even Shankly himself. All stubborn. You sure hate winners eh? Sven might be the manager for you. He'll look at the papers, take a survey among the players, put a poll on the internet to get his tactics and selection to the majority's liking. Your type of manager I take it? Fuck, show me ONE manager who isn't stubborn? From Fat Sam, to Martin O'Neil to Bug Eyes. Stubbornness is a sign of leadership Stubbornness when you are RIGHT, is a sign of a winner. And don't give me that rubbish about causing players to go. I presume you are talking about Alonso? Real buys players all the time that compete for places with Alonso. But he seems willing to fight for his place there. But he is scared of Garreth fucking Barry? He got a pay rise and got to go home and participate in the next exciting galactico project. Seriously, if we were backed by a billionaire, and buying superstars left and right, noone, not Alonso, not Torres, not Mascherano, not even Michael fucking Owen would have wanted to leave. All our other stars have been hinting this for years, as has Rafa. Well, your opinion is clear then. You're looking for a limp wristed, media watching, approval seeking beta manager. Perhaps you should start a campaign for Sven or McLaren or someone equally media sensitive

Having opinions is one thing. Having baseless conclusions and using them to attack the best manager we have had in decades is madness Again, what is your one verifiable reason to hate Benitez or think he is unsuitable for the job? Maybe its xenophobia after all?

Because they are exactly word for word the same accusations thrown in the media, that cannot be backed by actual facts They mean nothing, and cannot be verifiable. I see the same phrases over and over - not good enough - show me one other manager who has done better in a similar level league (only la liga or Premiership) without Billionaire funds - ruining the club - how exactly? But actually holding the club together while the former owners were trying to milk the club? - divisive figure - means nothing, because, again those anti-Benitez group don't have a case, always bringing up same old media phrases like "zonal marking", "bizarre substitutions", "bad man management" - zonal marking - for a bad system, Reina won the golden gloves several times, and when he didn't, he came second! - bizarre substitutions - while we may not understand the why, more often than not, he got it right. - bad man management - made so many players world class. Players that "suddenly" became considerably less than world class after he left - Rafa "Fact" Rant - can't actually believe people blame him for this. The timing was actually perfect, we were in the ascendancy, Man U were struggling and were facing Chelsea who were doing ok. Who knew they would beat Chelsea 3-0 jumpstarting their campaign. If one were to use the media to put pressure on Fergie, that was the perfect opportunity. And all his facts at that time were undisputedly true too. So I would guess the only reason I can imagine the fans attack Rafa for this is they did not like us making Fergie angry. Beta males the lot of them. Maybe you would like to add more phrases? One that you can actually verify with facts? Because its obvious these phrases are used over and over again by the simple minded fans, who feel validated when the media "agrees" with them (or the other way around). Must feel clever whenever you agree with Simon Cowell too on BGT or X-Factor or Idol, eh?

Not good enough, and nearly ruining the club? Wow, how did you come up with that conclusion then? Media made your mind up for you too? Fact, the final years of Benitez was a fuckup after fuckup by G&H. Conveniently forget that did you? Rafa was the only thing holding the club together at that time. We were on the brink of bankruptcy Not a long term coach? Lets see, someone who brought in: 1) Rodolfo Borrell & Pep Segura - arguably the best youth coaches at the time, who brought up and trained the current Barca squad. 2) Pako Ayestarán - arguably the best fitness coach in football, so much so Mourinho wanted to steal him, which is what caused the fallout between him and Rafa 3) Xavi Valero - the goalkeeping coach who compiled the notes for Reina and Torres, making them the best in their positions 4) Peter Bruckner - at the time appointed, he was regarded as the best sports doctor in the world. I do not know why he left recently, but at the time he was very highly regarded 5) Dalglish - no one can argue that he is the perfect ambassador for the club Sound like someone who knows how to put together a team. There are definitely more people in the background that we do not know about. His scouting seems pretty excellent too, always buying young players and developing them into stars. Now doesn't this sound like precisely the football man who can build a backroom staff capable of great things? We have owners who sacked pretty much most of the top figures in the club, and they themselves are not football people. Would you prefer they haphazardly form a team and try to micromanage themselves? I imagine thats what Abramovich keeps doing. Now compare this with a Mourinho or Capello. These are managers who are given large funds, and yes they do win, but they never stay on long to build a legacy. These are not managers who can build long term. And you have to splash cash for them to succeed. Pep, yes he did magnificently for Barca. However, its Barca. Rijkaard did fairly well before him too. However it has yet to be proven whether he can do the same elsewhere. Rijkaard clearly could not.

I'm not sure you've watched us play for years. Counter-attacking, nick a goal and defend football was Houllier football. Rafa's style is possession football, with defenders high up the pitch, pressing high in the opponent's half. We played pretty damn good stuff from in 2008 and 2009. We attacked Juve, Barca, Chelsea, etc etc. We only struggled against teams who parked the bus, which is why we need a budget to bring in the magicians who can thread passes through pinholes. In fact, in 2009 we played some of the best football I've ever seen since the 80s.

Funny I remember the zonal marking making us one of the top two hardest to score against team in the league, with Reina winning the golden gloves several times. I would consider it a success, woudn't you? And his bizarre substitutions, although bizarre to us, worked more often than not, and worked more often than the subsequent managers. This is a manager who does things with a strategic reason. He didn't make substitutions to fuck with you Poor man management? Players who BECAME world class under Rafa: Gerrard, Carra, Alonso, Mascherano, Torres, Reina the list goes on even to Aimar, Ayala etc etc. Even Eto'o performed substantially better under Rafa than under Mourinho (18 goals in 18 games or something like that). Since he left, most of them became above average at best (maybe bar Alonso). Give me such poor man management any day. All these cliches only goes to show how much the media has clouded your judgement, you completely miss the point and view the good points as bad.

The only reason I see supporters against Rafa, are because they buy what the xenophobic anti-Liverpool London media are selling them Here's a hint: They have never wanted us to succeed, so maybe you should check your sources Here's a manager who has a damn good record of buying young players and developing them to world class players. Sure not all made it, but those that do..... top 5 on the world in their positions. Isn't that what all this moneyball sabernomic nonsense is all about? How many other managers would you be confident about that is able to bring whatever squad we have currently, and going on to face Barca or Madrid with no fear? I see all these threads, about bringing back the goalie coach, about how good the youth setup is now etc etc. These are all Rafa's influence. Why not bring in the guy who set it all up in the first place? Here's a guy with a long term plan, who knows what he's doing. For a boring coach, 2 out of his 5 years, we were among the top scorers in the league, we were the no 1 team in Europe. So seriously, I don't really care about what an aging Carra says, nor about any other player, even Gerrard. I want a manager who is capable of bringing and training the next Gerrard/Torres/Aimar etc. With the right backing (decent budget every year, not necessarily Man City range), even building a team full of such players. So why do the anti-Rafa brigade hate him so much? Don't simply say he's "derisive". He's only derisive because you guys don't like him so much. The only reason I can see is you guys won't admit that you were wrong. You guys were all saying that anyone else would have done the same, and Woy demonstrated how nonsensical that was. You guys said that Rafa controlled his teams and should have let the players simply go out and play, we simply need a motivator. Dalglish proved that to be rubbish too. You hate Rafa, only because it would prove you wrong. And you would never admit to being wrong, even if we end up a mid table club. I have seen a few posts already saying this.