Hugo Sanjeev

Well and truly found out now. All great managers have a plan B, however good their plan A is.

 

No thanks.

Guardiola is a highly talented manager, there is no doubt about that.

However, when things are not going as expected, not only does he tend not to have a "Plan B," but he has very little interest in changes things and has got a reputation for being stubborn as a result.

Whereas someone like Mourinho (not turning this into a pro or anti Mourinho discussion, especially in relation to LFC) is willing to change things when they aren't going according to plan. He is more than willing to make several changes at half time in a snap, for example.

Rodolfo Borrell's reaction after the Newcastle defeat...I like the cut of his jib - frank, doesn't want to high behind excuses, demanding high standards, regardless of their age, and wants to win:

[YOUTUBE]op1eAsOllT8[/YOUTUBE]

Sport

Football

Barcelona

 

Pep Guardiola's preaching converts quiet man Mascherano to Barca style

 

Patience and a willingness to learn have transformed the midfielder into a key defender for the Spanish giants

 

 

 

Sid Lowe

Sid Lowe

guardian.co.uk, Saturday 14 April 2012 23.00 BST

Article history

 

Javier Mascherano

Javier Mascherano, right – holding off Milan's Robinho in the Champions League quarter-final – has become a key part of Barcelona's defence. Photograph: Daniel Dal Zennaro/EPA

 

Pep Guardiola looked his inquisitor in the eye and replied without hesitation: "I would never, ever sell him and I wouldn't swap him for anyone." Nothing unusual there, you might think, but Guardiola was not talking about Leo Messi, Andrés Iniesta or Xavi Hernández. He wasn't talking about Dani Alves or Sergio Busquets; he wasn't even talking about Cesc Fàbregas. He was talking about Javier Mascherano. And his words were not empty ones. Guardiola meant it. It is time to revise those easy assumptions.

 

The search for a weakness in the Barcelona side that Chelsea face in the first leg of their Champions League semi-final this week often settles on the midfielder playing at the back, on the player who does not appear to fit the Barcelona philosophy. There is just one problem with that argument: it is not true. Not any more. Mascherano has had to relearn his trade; in fact, he has had to learn a different trade and he has had to be patient, waiting for his opportunity, accepting his fate. But he has started 24 times in the league and in seven of nine Champions League games, and become so important to Barcelona that the assumption that he will return to the bench the day everyone is fit no longer looks so secure.

 

There were lots of people who could not really see how Mascherano would fit into the Barcelona team when he signed from Liverpool in the summer of 2010. Mascherano was one of them. He had signed only after the Catalan club's pursuit of Fàbregas failed and his debut ended with a shock 2-0 home defeat by Hercules, in which Mascherano – slow on and off the ball – gave away the free-kick that led to one of the goals and was fortunate to escape a red card. It also ended at half-time, when Guardiola took him off.

 

Few doubted he was a good player; many doubted he was the right player. Others wondered how long he would accept secondary status; this, after all, was a €22m signing and captain of Argentina. El Jefecito, the little chief. He was also 26 years old, not a kid with time on his hands. The answer, as it turned out, was: as long as it takes. "I'd be an idiot if I thought I'll play ahead of Xavi and Iniesta," Mascherano said. As for Busquets, the man occupying his position, Mascherano called him "the perfect player".

 

"It is a blessing to be here. I watch Busquets and learn," he said. "I'd love to be able to play like [Xavi, Iniesta and Busquets], but I can't."

 

The Argentinian might not have won a place immediately, but his attitude quickly won people over. He has filled in whenever he was called upon and kept quiet whenever he was not. Instead of wailing, he watched. When he speaks he does so with clarity and conviction, a quiet authority, and with rare understanding and analysis. Yet there is also a kind of wide-eyed eagerness and he is never off message. He speaks with a convert's zeal, describing team-mates with a kind of hushed awe. "I have never seen anything like Barcelona; it is not that they win, it is the way the win," he said. "I now know that there's another way of thinking about football.

 

"I have come here to learn and enjoy," he insisted. Barcelona can be likened to a sect in its single-minded, exclusive commitment to an ideal: Mascherano has successfully been re-programmed. "Pep always surprises you with some detail," he says. The broad brushstrokes, the fundamentals of the central midfielder's role, have been altered too. Always taught to follow his passes, Guardiola preaches the opposite: moving away or simply stopping still to open up new lines of passing. Rather than resisting, Mascherano received the advice like a revelation. "I run less, but I am closer to the play," he says. "Positioning is vital here."

 

If his positioning has changed; so has his position. However much he developed, Busquets ensured that midfield opportunities were limited. With injuries, opportunities at the back have opened up. Mascherano has played as one of two centre-backs and was flawless in that role during last year's Champions League final. But in the absence of Eric Abidal and with Alves alternating between right-back and right winger, it is his role in a three that has really brought him to the fore. "It's not easy adapting and it's been strange to leave the midfield, my natural role, but I feel comfortable with Piqué and Puyol," he says.

 

The feeling is mutual. Quick across the turf, neat and simple in possession, and handed the role of leaving the back three to seek to win the ball, striding out if successful, returning if not, he has been a revelation. Against Milan and Athletic Bilbao, Barcelona's last two home games, Mascherano committed only one foul, yet he recovered possession 27 times, averaging more than anyone in the Barcelona team. Over those two matches he only lost the ball once. Speed helps; awareness too. For all the intensity and toughness, intelligence has been the key to his success.

 

Asked which of his team-mates would make the best manager, Alves insists: "Mascherano. He has a spectacular view of football. Whenever I talk to him, he tells me something new; he notices things you don't. He really understands the game."

 

"I never expected him to give us as much as he has: his value is unimaginable," Guardiola admitted. "He has been spectacular as a player and a person. Javier Mascherano is the best signing this club has made in four years."

 

Just seen this from Sid Lowe, quality Journo.

 

Miss Mascher loads, loved his passion

Great read. Thanks a lot for posting that mate. :thumbsup:

Also, the more you learn about Guardiola, the more impressive he comes across.

Sorry for going off topic, but as I originally thought this thread maybe about this particular person (daft I know), any idea what's happened to StevieH, as he hasn't posted for a while?

If we spent anything near 10m on Zaha I would not be happy. No football brain whatsoever.

Anyone who interested, there are some interesting and contrasting views from C Palace fans on Zaha on this forum:

Wilfried Zaha - is he actually any good ? - Crystal Palace FC Supporters' Website - The Holmesdale Online

If there is genuine interest in Sinclair, as Steve Clarke will know him well from their Chelsea days, I wonder what input he would've had in this.....

Fuck knows but I thought he looked pretty good at Chelsea when he played.

Sinclair did well for most of the numerous clubs Chelsea loaned him out to in the lower divisions. I think he is technically sound, but his primary asset is his pace. Even though he was signed by Chelsea from Bristol Rovers as a 16 year old, I guess he really didn't stand out among the plethora of stars they had. From what I can recall, Chelsea fans/followers in the media weren't that surprised or disappointed with his departure.

In fairness, in recent years, Chelsea hasn't exactly been renowned for having a "long term" view and nurturing talent.

Yeah his technique is what I have been really impressed by. That's definitely a wise policy, can't imagine its helpful for young lads to get too much attention early on when they still have a lot to learn. The future looks very bright though with the amount of promising young lads we seem to have.

What is his exact/best position and what are his qualities?

Does he remind you of any past or present established footballers with his style of play?

Thanks.

I don't think Downing would actually be a bad signing, even though he doesn't really excite me. I think he could turn out to be effective with the right players, in the right system, the way a Stuart Ripley and Jason Wilcox were for Blackburn.

However, rather than spending £18 mill on Downing, I would much rather spend around £25 mill for both N'Zogbia and Xherdan Shaqiri.

Well, it does seem that the only logic applied to it based on nationality: that ace foreign players (Suarez) are "Commolli signings", and laughably over-priced English ones (Carroll, Henderson, Downing) are "Kenny signings".

 

There may be some truth in it, but it does rather ignore the fact that Comolli bought some decent domestic talent into Spurs when he was there, and Kenny's bought plenty of foreign players in his time (granted most of them were fucking shit, but anyway).

 

I do not really believe for one second that Commolli and FSG would buy or sell any player without input from Kenny, though. No way.

 

As for Mad Nick's assertion that Commolli is closer to FSG and in a stronger position than Kenny, I don't buy that either: he may have more regular conversations with them, but nobody would be stupid enough to try and power-play or brief against Kenny Dalglish at Liverpool.

 

Which is fortunate, because the Glorified Scout has form for it.

Disagree with that. Especially, as FSG sought his input on Kenny's appointment and he would have a significant voice on future managerial appointments.

In the future, Comolli can still have a say on Kenny's fate as manager, whether FSG act on it, is a different matter altogether. But, I doubt if Kenny

can have any say on Comolli's position at the club or the DOF role.

J Henry appointed him to be pretty much his eyes and ears on football related matters; and to influence the tone of the club - style of play/philosophy.

FSG will never ignore the standing Kenny has among the fans and his status, generally, in the world of football. Regardless, I don't think a power struggle between Kenny or Comolli will arise. But, I do think that Comolli has their ear to a greater extent than Kenny; and even before appointing Kenny, just by the pure nature of football, generally, J Henry probably expected Comolli to be the one constant as far as the football staff went when he appointed him.

Whether Comolli deserves such a powerful position is a different debate...

No chance he could've been one of the all time greats. He's failed ina few jobs that weren't with small clubs.

I think he is more knowledgeable and tactically astute than Ferguson, for example. He also has excellent man-management skills. I don't think he has got the hunger of a Ferguson though. Ferguson will go down as an all time great, however distasteful that may sound. I think Hiddink is more talented than Ferguson in purely footballing terms. But obviously other factors come into it such as personal attributes (hunger, desire, ambition etc) and this is where he falls short. So, in that sense I think you are correct - and of course being a great manager isn't just about one or two attributes - but, I think he has got the natural talent, knowledge and tactical acumen to have achieved truly great things. I think winning the European Cup with PSV in 1988, their only E Cup triumph (albeit on penalties), and securing the treble in the process, is indicative of this.

Due to personality flaws and choices, he hasn't achieved what his ability warrants and what some inferior managers have.

I guess, you could also say this about plenty of footballers who had the talent to be truly great and remembered as such, but fell short in the personality aspect.

We did catch a glimpse of what Hiddink could do in his short spell as Chelsea manager, when he was able to make an instant impact, galvanize and unite the players.

In years gone by, I would've been happy with him as LFC manager; but he would only have been a short term option, as he could've done great things over a period of 3 years; but don't think he has the will to do this for 5-10 years.

I guess, to prove yourself as an all time great, longevity or sustained period of success at a club is also important. This is where he falls short and I think associating the word "potentially" is fair.

I think his talent is beyond doubt, though.

Hiddink wants the Inter job now

Hiddink's career and choices have been truly bizarre - undoubtedly one of THE most talented managers in the game today; and although has still got a lot to show on his CV, he could've/should've gone down as one of the all time greats.

He's quit but surely Porto will still have a case for the dough

That's strange, if true. Apparently it was Porto who were pushing for the deal with Chelsea because the clause in his contract means that they can command £13mill in compensation for him, whereas, if he chose to leave next summer, he can do so without them getting any compensation.

I know, but some people seem to have forgotten his record. Just thought I'd better make sure.

 

Should have included that Kenny also built the best team ever to play in this league though.

I had already beat you to that!

Don't agree about Kenny necessarily being the best person to implement the "Liverpool Philosophy" in terms of style of play on the pitch. I don't think that is exclusive to someone who has LFC connections. Guardiola could do it, possibly even better than Kenny. Not to mention the fact that he already has links with Borrell and Segura.

Barcelona's philosophy and style of play which is being epitomized by Guardiola's side - better than its' ever been at the club - is based on the Ajax model imported by Cruyff.

You love it.

 

In all seriousness Hugo; it's best not to consider a neg personal. You don't seem to be taking into account Kenny's record or legend at all though; however valid your arguments for Villas Boas may or may not be. Maybe something to have a think about. He is not called the King for no reason.

If you read my previous posts on this thread, I think you'll find I do. I have the same feelings towards the King as you. I also rate him highly as a manager.

But if I was open to someone else as manager, that doesn't mean I'm disrespecting Kenny or undermining him personally or diminishing his legend status, though, does it mate?

However, I don't think "legend" status per say should play a part in appointing a manger. In Kenny's case, he obviously has the ability to match.

Most of them don't, though.

Are some of you guys completely juvenile or what?

You understand a joke and sarcasm??!

I think you have explained yourself well, but I strongly disagree with some of your points.

 

For me, it isn't because I don't rate him, he looks like he will go on to be s top manager if his early career is anything to go by, but I think people are expecting him to just sail through. Part of becoming a great manager is dealing with dips. Ancelotti is a great manager but even though he turned it round, the midseason implosion was enough to see him lose his job a year after winning the double. That is what AVB is up against.

If kenny hadn't been around I would have been delighted with a punt on him, but luckily for us he was, and his record last season, with an inferior squad was impressive.

 

I look forward to next season and it will be interesting to see how AVB does. I hope he fails mind.

The point about having to deal with dips and testing times as a manager, I guess, you could apply to life, generally, to test someone's mettle.

However, I don't agree that this is a prerequisite to be a great manager or prove yourself to be one. Some managers can be that good that they don't encounter many difficult moments in their career due to preparation and organisation etc; and luck. Just like any professional. I don't think that should be used as a stick to beat them with or be a strike against them.

I don't think Bob Paisley experienced many dips or adverse times as a manger, he himself said the following:

"Mind you, I've been here during the bad times too - one year we came second."

Does this detract from his achievements or standing in any way? No it doesn't. He is one of the greatest football managers of all time.

Some people often make the point that in order to see how good a Jose Mourinho or Wenger are, we should see them managing in the lower leagues in this country with those conditions and resources, for them to really test themselves. This point made by those people is a pretty moot and obsolete one.

*Andre Villas Boas did start off his career in difficult circumstances when he took over bottom of the table Academia in Portugal, couple of months into the season, from his cosy role at Inter Milan, and comfortably managed to stave off relegation and reach the semi-final of the Portuguese Cup as well.

This is why this guy impresses me so much - in his short career, he has excelled at both ends of the table with contrasting clubs, with contrasting resources and expectations. He has shown steel and courage, particularly at Academia.

To answer Jose Jones' question - he actually believes in Mourinho's defensive discipline and solidity, combined with a more attacking, expansive and fluid style of play. Hence, Porto scored goals galore last season, while maintaining an equally impressive defensive record.

You can check the following link to get an indication of the stats Porto racked up:

FC Porto 2010-2011 Home - statto.com

There are so many record breaking reasons why this guy is so impressive and is so highly rated within the game.

The guy is going to be absolutely sensational in the PL!

And some of you dinosaurs are going to regret wanting Kenny ahead of him:monkeytongue:

Wow, didn't realise he actually had that amount of connections with this country. Looks like they're definitely going to be a team up there then if he arrives. Will just hope our team spirit, players and manager combine well enough so that we don't have to worry about other clubs instead.

This isn't meant as a dig at you mate - but a lot of people who have said that he is too much of an unknown quantity and questioning how much do people who rate him actually know about him, haven't researched him themselves, and are assuming that everyone else falls into the same category.

Yep, next season should be interesting.

I just hope we can make the necessary top class signings.

Just following on from the Edit - I just added that because of some of the right sensitive and miserable sods we've had on here!

It's a bloody forum - you're supposed to have discussions and difference of opinions, without getting all precious and worked up!

Just because he's done well at Porto and has been taught by Maureen, doesn't mean Chelsea will win the title if he arrives. It might turn out that someone else wins the title next year, and just as he's getting things sorted the season after, Roman starts meddling. Of course Maureen will have warned him about that and he'll then be looking forward to being at a club where the owner doesn't fuck his plans up.

 

It's a concern, but there's a big question of how he'll adapt. I'd give him three seasons either way at the most, because Roman will just have to get involved and he won't like it. He might be able to hack it for one season, or maybe two, but he'll want out after that. Unless there's some freak chance that he actually gets on with the owner (I called him Roman because I'm sick of typing his second name.) and his crazy ideas, but highly unlikely.

 

 

He'll probably be a great manager in his time, maybe he's even evolved what Maureen has taught him and knows how to makes teams great without resorting to the shithouse tactics Maureen sometimes does, but with some luck it won't happen while he's at Chelsea if he goes there.

I'll be surprised if it's an issue at all to be honest mate. He has lived in England while working for Chelsea, played an integral role in their succes - which Mourinho readily acknowledges - understands what attributes are required to be successful in the PL, albeit in a Coaching and intense scouting capacity; did his Coaching badge as a 17 year old in England (Lilleshall), and was mentored as a teenager by Bobby Robson; and speaks very good English due to having an English grandmother.

So, unlike other foreign managers, he is actually familiar with the PL, PL players, culture and language of the country.

And for a 33 year old that is hugely impressive and illustrates that the guy is pretty exceptional as a person and manager, especially if you read about his journey into football.

I've got to be honest, if he had been appointed LFC manager now, I'd be buzzing....absolutely buzzing.

I think he will hit the ground running and Chelsea will have a monumental season if he is allowed freedom to do his job (gives me no pleasure to say that, obviously).

Edit: Before people come on and repeat themselves on him being unproven, him being given undue credit; or implying by rated him is somehow being anti-Kenny; I guess, it's best to wait until next season unfolds.

AVB may do well at Chelsea but it is far from a foregone conclusion. It is a well known fact that there is a lot of intereference there, and if he is hindered in his work he might well spew it, as he would be wanted all over Europe.

 

As it stands, I would say PAR for Chelsea next season would be second place. We already know they will be there of thereabouts, so let's see what AVB is made of.

 

As for the Kenny stuff, well, I suspect that if Hodgson would have done his job and brought us home in about 6th or 7th, he would have been replaced anyway, and FSG might well have been in for Villas Boas. But since Hodgson messed it up so badly, and we looked more like being in a relegation scrap on his watch, FSG had to act. And Kenny did such a good job in EVERY way, that he simply had to get the job. And rightly so.

 

AVB may go on to achieve some important things but as it stands right now, he pales in comparison when compared to Kenny. Kenny is the right man, at the right time, and for the right reasons. And I for one can't wait to see what he will do. He has a sparkle in his eye and an obvious hunger for the job.

 

Bring it on!

Good point. Which is why I'm surprised he would want to go there, especially as there would not be a lack of demand for his services in the future or a lack

of money thrown at him from other clubs.

Doubt it, but maybe the penny has finally dropped with Abramovich in regards to his meddling?

He has learnt off the best and put it into action and won what more can you ask for.

Also surpassed Mourinho's unbeaten run.

Got to keep a sense of perspective as some have said, and only time will tell how good he turns out to be. But, what he has achieved at club level with Academia and Porto is very impressive. His general stats at the latter, including goals for and against, are fantastic.

I don't think this guy is a flash in the pan, he is the real deal; and although obviously don't want Chelsea to do well (but would prefer they do over the Mancs), I'm fascinated to see how he does at Chelsea.

For sure

 

Kenny was the right choice for us and the safe choice for the owners. The top 4 clubs wouldnt want Kenny but hopefully that would change after next season.

 

Just hate to think what would happen on here if AVB wins his first 4 games and Kenny only had two points from the first 4, a war zone would probably be an understatement

 

Glad Chelsea got him and not the Mancs

They may still get Guardiola, though...

Dont talk bollocks.

 

He's completely rebuilt the squad that Rijkaard gave him and built a team around players that Rijkaard didnt build a team around.

Not to mention he won pretty much everything going in his debut season!

So you get rid of your PL winning manager get Pep in and after a year he decides he doesnt want to live in England anymore or has a nervous breakdown. or more realistically cant continue Kenny's success due to the other teams having better resources.

 

The time to make a major appointment was this season and the club have already done that even if it wasnt their preferred choice when they first gave Kenny the job

Blimey man, that's like someone arguing what if Kenny suffers a heart attack, suffers from a stroke or something!

In that case, why bother signing any foreign players, why not just stick to the British ones?

I agree, this summer was the time to make a new appointment, be it Kenny or someone else. I would've given it to AVB ahead of anyone else.

But, when someone of the calibre of Guardiola becomes available, I would, at least, look at that option.