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The McCanns...


Chris
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2 minutes ago, Scott_M said:

Cheers. Which episode is the dog stuff? I might just jump straight to that.

 

My Uncle was in the Met and similar to you, he's worked with sniffer dogs etc. He says they are incredible and the odds of them making a mistake are minimal.

Episode 4, I think.

 

We relied on the dogs to literally save lives. I understand that blood/cadaver dogs evidence alone cannot be taken as proof but it can point the way to other leads. The places that the dog indicated should raise questions, as I said earlier they certainly would had the other suspects in the case had alerts for their property. 

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3 minutes ago, Anny Road said:

I cant understand if they did it when they did it.

 

6pm: Kate takes children back to apartment while Gerry goes to an hour-long tennis lesson.

6.30pm: Gerry asks David Payne, one of the so-called "tapas seven", to check on Kate and the children at the apartment.

7pm: Gerry returns to the apartment and the children are put to bed in the front bedroom overlooking the car park and beyond it, the street. Madeleine is placed in the single bed nearest the door. There is an empty bed against the opposite wall beneath the window. Between the two beds are two travel cots containing the twins.

7.30pm: The McCanns shower and change.

8pm: The couple share a bottle of wine together.

8.35pm: The McCanns are the first of the group to arrive at the tapas restaurant, 50 yards away from their apartment.

8.55pm: The group has ordered starters when the routine of checking on the children begins. Matt Oldfield goes to check his own apartment. He also tells the Paynes, who are still in their apartment, that the group is waiting for them at the restaurant.

9.05pm: Gerry returns to the apartment through the unlocked patio doors to check on the children. Earlier that week, the McCanns had used a key to go in through the front door next to the children's bedroom but, worrying the noise might wake the children, they began using the patio doors, leaving them unlocked.

He enters the apartment and sees that the children's bedroom door, which they always left slightly ajar, is now open to 45 degrees. Thinking this is odd, he glances into his own bedroom to see if Madeleine has gone into her parents' bed. But he sees that all three are still fast asleep where the McCanns left them. Putting the door back to five degrees, he went to the toilet and then returned to the restaurant. This is the last time he would see his daughter.

9.08pm: Gerry sees Jeremy Wilkins, another holidaymaker at the resort, on the opposite side of the road as he walks back to the tapas bar and crosses over to talk. Wilkins and his partner are eating in their apartment since their youngest child will not settle. The two men spend several minutes talking.

9.10pm: Jane Tanner walks up the road, unnoticed by Gerry and Wilkins, although she sees them. She spots a man walking quickly across the top of the road in front of her, going away from the apartment block and heading to the outer road of the resort complex. He is carrying a sleeping girl in pink pyjamas who is hanging limply in his arms. The sighting is odd, but hardly exceptional in a holiday resort. Her daughter is fine; Tanner returns to the table.

9.30pm: Kate gets up to make next check on her children but Matthew Oldfield and Russell O'Brien are checking, too. Oldfield offers to check the McCann's children.

In the McCanns' apartment, Oldfield notices the children's bedroom door is open again, but this means little to him. He merely observes all is quiet and makes a cursory glance inside the room seeing the twins in their cot, but not directly seeing Madeleine's bed from the angle at which he stood. Afterwards, he could not say for sure if she had been there or not. Nor could he say if the window and shutter had been open.

He would later get a hard time from the police because of this. During his interviews, he was aggressively accused of taking Madeleine, coming under suspicion because he had offered to take Kate's turn.

10.00pm: Kate checks on the children. She becomes alarmed when she reaches out to the children's bedroom door and it blows shut. Inside the room, the window is open and the shutter is up. The twins are sleeping but Madeleine's bed is empty.

Shortly after 10pm: Rachael Oldfield goes to Tanner's apartment to tell her Madeleine has been taken. Tanner says: "Oh my God. I saw a man carrying a girl."

 

Key to this is the 9.30 Odfield checking. If she was dead in the apartment or missing you would not have let a pal go.                                                                                                                      

If she was gone before and never made bed again why would you let a pal go check?                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 

 

Maybe the whole idea was for the friend to find the empty bed, then when he came back saying all was ok they sent Kate to “find” she was missing.. you can break it down in loads of ways. Dodgy bastards the pair of em 

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2 minutes ago, Anny Road said:

That would require all of the people at the dinner to conspire. Big stretch.

It's not a big stretch at all.  Their witness statements are wildly inconsistent and not verifiable by anyone outside the group.  All of them, including the McCanns, have consistently refused to take part in a forensic reconstruction.  That's because they know their own story is bollocks.  

 

As you rightly point out, the timeline itself shows that there was no window of opportunity for a paedo to enter the apartment and escape unnoticed.  

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6 minutes ago, Anny Road said:

 

9.05pm: Gerry returns to the apartment through the unlocked patio doors to check on the children. Earlier that week, the McCanns had used a key to go in through the front door next to the children's bedroom but, worrying the noise might wake the children, they began using the patio doors, leaving them unlocked.

He enters the apartment and sees that the children's bedroom door, which they always left slightly ajar, is now open to 45 degrees. Thinking this is odd, he glances into his own bedroom to see if Madeleine has gone into her parents' bed. But he sees that all three are still fast asleep where the McCanns left them. Putting the door back to five degrees, he went to the toilet and then returned to the restaurant. This is the last time he would see his daughter.

 

He needn't have bothered, the other two slept through everything afterwards. 

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Just now, Thoth said:

Maybe the whole idea was for the friend to find the empty bed, then when he came back saying all was ok they sent Kate to “find” she was missing.. you can break it down in loads of ways. Dodgy bastards the pair of em 

Maybe, if? Thats not beyond reasonable doubt.

The restaurant was 50 yards away. I'm further than that from my kids when in the garden. i would never have left my kids and gone out but this was not totally unreasonable.

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3 minutes ago, Captain Marvel said:

Episode 4, I think.

 

We relied on the dogs to literally save lives. I understand that blood/cadaver dogs evidence alone cannot be taken as proof but it can point the way to other leads. The places that the dog indicated should raise questions, as I said earlier they certainly would had the other suspects in the case had alerts for their property. 

The blood sample matches Maddie's DNA, albeit at low copy rate.  But you still have fucking idiots saying there is "no evidence".  Yeah no evidence except for some DNA.  

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2 minutes ago, TK421 said:

The blood sample matches Maddie's DNA, albeit at low copy rate.  But you still have fucking idiots saying there is "no evidence".  Yeah no evidence except for some DNA.  

The old couple in the 'documentary', alleged investigative journalist gave us hearsay about some DNA expert saying the forensic evidence amounted to a whole load of nothing. 

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One thing my wife & I said after episode 1 - how on earth would an abductor get in through the window and then back out the window with a sleeping child and not wake her?

 

If I tried to pick my 3 year old up during the night and do anything she’d wake up, let alone a stranger pick her up & take her from a room to outside without waking her, my 3 year old would scream & scream & scream. 

 

No matter how tired Maddy was supposed to be, I don’t believe she wouldn’t have been woken. 

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1 minute ago, Anny Road said:

Killed her went for a tennis lesson. Got his pal to pop in and see them went for dinner. Chatty and happy.

No way if you had just killed your kid. Let alone the wife playing along.

The visit of his "pal" is highly dubious.  There are lots of inconsistencies between Kate's testimony and David Payne's, so many that it is unlikely that this visit ever took place.

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11 minutes ago, Scott_M said:

One thing my wife & I said after episode 1 - how on earth would an abductor get in through the window and then back out the window with a sleeping child and not wake her?

 

If I tried to pick my 3 year old up during the night and do anything she’d wake up, let alone a stranger pick her up & take her from a room to outside without waking her, my 3 year old would scream & scream & scream. 

There is no evidence of a break in.  The Portuguese police concluded that the crime scene had been staged.  The only fingerprints found on the bedroom window belonged to Kate McCann.  That's one of the reasons they were declared suspects. 

 

The apartment had also been sterilised/cleaned.  When Gerry McCann was asked to produce a sample of Maddie's DNA to the Portuguese police, he was unable to.  He had to fly back to England and obtain her DNA from a pillow at their home in Leicestershire.  

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2 minutes ago, Anny Road said:

What evidence do you have that it never took place?

It's highly unlikely that it ever took place.  If you read the whole transcripts of the evidence provided by David Payne and Kate respectively, you will understand why.  For example, he said that he was inside the apartment for approximately 3-5 minutes.  Kate McCann maintains he did not enter the apartment, and that they only chatted for 30 seconds. 

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Just now, TK421 said:

It's highly unlikely that it ever took place.  If you read the whole transcripts of the evidence provided by David Payne and Kate respectively, you will understand why.  For example, he said that he was inside the apartment for approximately 3-5 minutes.  Kate McCann maintains he did not enter the apartment, and that they only chatted for 30 seconds. 

Point is Gerry asked him to go check. Why would you do that if you had a secret to hide?

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6 minutes ago, Anny Road said:

When is the last verified siting of her?

Good question.  There is scant evidence that she was alive after Sunday 29th April.  There are no photographs of her alive after that time.  Gerry McCann claims that the "Last Photo" was taken on 3rd May, but the weather that day (dreary and cloudy) is not consistent with the weather in the photograph (sunny and bright). 

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If Kate McCann realised that Madeline was missing, why would she go back to the restaurant to tell everyone and leave her other two kids in the room by themselves. Surely, if one of your kids had just disappeared you wouldn’t leave your other two alone

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Just now, Thoth said:

If Kate McCann realised that Madeline was missing, why would she go back to the restaurant to tell everyone and leave her other two kids in the room by themselves. Surely, if one of your kids had just disappeared you wouldn’t leave your other two alone

She panicked. People do strange things under stress - like having a kid kidnapped. 

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3 minutes ago, Thoth said:

If Kate McCann realised that Madeline was missing, why would she go back to the restaurant to tell everyone and leave her other two kids in the room by themselves. Surely, if one of your kids had just disappeared you wouldn’t leave your other two alone

People do strange things under stress, would be the answer you'd get. I could understand if she screamed until someone arrived or carried the two babies to the restaurant. I also don't get how she let the twins go elsewhere afterwards (still fast asleep) but as I said, people do strange things at times of great stress. 

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