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THE GREAT NET SPEND ROPE TRICK (AND MORE MONEYBALLS) // The Anfield Wrap A quite brilliant, and fascinating read, imploring us to look past transfer fees as the sole financial output during the transfer window.

I'm fucking sick and tired of every single thread descending into Rafa is a cunt, Rafa isn't a cunt, Rafa was this, Rafa was that, Net spend, who had the better signings, Blah fucking blah. Stop it. Try and keep it all in one shite thread at least because I really cant be arsed coming on here any more due to every thread ending the same. You're all a bunch of boring twats and you all have 'agendas', so stop accusing each of having them. It's not even about the club anymore, it's just a massive point scoring exercise between you all and it's fucking pathetic. So to all who stop it and realise it is pathetic, merry Christmas. To the rest, go fuck yourselves. Ho Fucking Ho. Vote Kouprey.

well, how about that. It may be skewed taking some factors into account such as inflation. When Liverpool were the biggest spenders on Dean Saunders (£2.9 million) through to Collymore(£8.5 million) the figures were relatively low. So in real terms, we could be even higher. United's is skewed by the £80 mill they got for Ronaldo and haven't reinvested because of financial restraints possibly. City's is because it's the most recent of course and prices tend to inflate wildly year on year. Still, interesting. And it's only from 1992 onwards ( when football was invented by Richard Keys.)

I think it would do this football club the world of good. Get Dalglish in on a two-year-contract and get this football club back to the 'basics' if you like. The whole place would get a complete lift and it would ensure our captain would not be going anywhere, not that I think he will anyway. Maybe it would even be enough to convince Torres to stay here a little bit longer. Dalglish would get the best out of our players and the atmosphere alone at Anfield would secure better performances from the players. I'm sure the standard of football would improve too. His main goal would be to secure Champions League football and start re-building a team capable of being great. A domestic trophy would be a bonus. The core of the team is partly built with the likes of Reina, Carragher, Agger, Gerrard, Mascherano and Torres around. You can add the likes of Johnson and Maxi to that and maybe one or two more. Also, you can't forget what we have coming through in Kelly, Pacheco, Ayala and now with the signing of Shelvey. And we don't seem to be stopping there with many more top kids being mentioned. If Dalglish could only add three, four, maybe five good players to that with funds mainly created from player sales. e.g. Riera, Degen, Insua, Calvelieri, Skrtel, N'Gog, Yossi, Babel, El Zhar and maybe one or two youngsters like San Jose. The market will be good this summer. City will be looking to offload Ireland, Onouha, Wright-Philips, Belamy, Santa Cruz etc.. Same at West Ham with the likes of Carlton Cole, Mark Noble and Upson all touted to be available. I think it's a big summer for Shawcross and Gary Cahill too, so it would be excellent to get one or two of them in. Don't even start on the exodus that is about to happen at Real Madrid. The other alternative to Dalglish, is someone like Roy Hodgson, if you could only convince him to come here on a similar deal and terms.

"People can talk about this player and that player but they have to blend in because if you don't have £60m every year you have to sell." "I was listening to some fans and they said 'why did you sell this player or that'. "I said we sold one tall striker - I won't tell you his name, you can guess - but his wages at his other team are double what they were here. If they don't play here and they can get double wages elsewhere they will think 'maybe I should go'. "Hopefully in the future we will have more players coming from the youth system and from the reserves. "This is the first year we have had control of The Academy. We have not produced a player in the last 13 years so that was a big problem." Control of the academy, how many kids has he signed who have not made the first team? The "tall striker" left because he wasn't playing.

Just wondering what those people who think we are were we are because we dont spend enough money on players and wages think of Bayer Leverkusen who are currently top of the German 1st division. Bayer Leverkusen Transfers They've spent next to nothing in the past few seasons. Bayern and Wolfsburg have far outspent them.

If what we're hearing is true, that Benitez has managed to recoup some money for Dossena and got something for Voronin then he has pulled off a miracle in the transfer market in addition to recouping 80% of Robbie Keane's fee (which he has not been allowed to spend) I have always maintained that Benitez should be allowed to put this mess right. Some of you forget that Benitez has a lot of contacts and players who want to play for him (usually good foreign ones), it's a disgrace that the board cannot back our manager more because if they did we would see more players like Fernando Torres arriving rather than having tens of millions taken out of the club for the privilage of being owned by Hicks and Gillett. So, Benitez has to work another way. Some of the fans and their kneejerk reactions calling for his head really are pathetic, if Benitez is allowed to operate effectively he will sort it out, he will change the personnel and I'm sure he will make sure the players know what is expected of them or they can also find themselves out the door. Those people who lose faith because of a bad run of results need to wake up. The results are short term and while our league campaign has been bitterly disappointing, the development of the club does not stop, we need to think long term, beyond this season and beyond next because we want to be consistent challengers despite the financial handicap. It's just going to take longer for Benitez to get the squad the way he needs to and the players he needs along with the right blend of youngsters, which some fans call for him to develop then simultaneously crucify them when he plays them. Chelsea have just wasted £40m on compensation to three coaches in 2 years, this has never been the Liverpool way and i'd prefer to see us spend whatever money we have on players and backing Benitez.

Why are these thick bastards who can't manage their finances complaining? Why should those who can manage suffer low savings rates or higher loan rates to compensate for those who spend money they haven't got and incur charges. Yet another case of parasitic free loaders looking to others to bail them out.

will be like De Niro in 'Backdraft' at this rate. Rafa's taking some major stick in the last two days.

If we don't get him one of our rivals will, time to start negotiations: Special delivery: why José Mourinho wants to go ‘home’ to England | Chelsea - Times Online

lots of fans point to rafas limited net spend as the reason why he cant build a title challenging team despite spending what over £200m. from what ive read rafas net spend is in the region of £85m give or take a million. so if rafa had more money to spend, what would people expect his net spend to be to turn us into a title challenging team. in other words, would his net spend have to be £100m £130m £150m more? how much?

Liverpool manager Rafa Benitez to be given £12m transfer budget to rescue fading title dreams | Mail Online Several emerging Spanish players are under review, as well as Lazio striker Goran Pandev, as he looks to strengthen on the flanks and up front. For all the owners’ support, though, he could face further frustration. Macedonia front-runner Pandev was rated at £17m when Arsenal and Tottenham were linked with him in the summer. Inter Milan are favourites to sign him in January.

Why Rafa could quit Some Liverpool fans think Rafa Benitez's time is up at Anfield after a poor start to the season. Given the circumstances, maybe the Spaniard does too WHETHER you love or hate Rafa Benitez, put yourself in the Spaniard’s shoes for a moment. After a lifetime living and working in Spain, after guiding Valencia to the most successful period in their history with a first title in 31 years followed up by a La Liga and UEFA Cup double, you choose to leave your home country behind to come to England and manage Liverpool. You make that decision despite other, more lucrative offers lying on the table back in June 2004 – from Spurs, Inter Milan and Besiktas. But you plump for Liverpool, drawn by its standing and heritage, inheriting an underachieving, average squad which looked certain to lose two of its best players in Michael Owen and Steven Gerrard. For five years you live and work in a foreign country, putting your heart and soul into the manager’s job at a football club where resources don’t match the expectations. You master a new language, work up to 22-hour days, change players’ diets and training methods and even enjoy an infamous drink in Germany with Liverpool fans. You left one job where directors refused to sign players you wanted and interfered with transfer dealings (sparking your infamous “I asked the club for a sofa and they bought me a lampshade” quote) and walked into another one with similar problems. You were told by co-owner George Gillett you could sign “Snoogy Doogy” if that’s who you wanted – but then you were told you couldn’t sign Simao, Gareth Barry, Michael Dawson, David Villa, David Silva, Kenwyne Jones, Ryan Shawcross and countless others. You had a club co-owner open talks with Jurgen Klinsmann about succeeding you as manager – and found out about it through the newspapers. You signed Xabi Alonso, Fernando Torres, Pepe Reina, Javier Mascherano, Luis Garcia, Yossi Benayoun, Dirk Kuyt, Glen Johnson, Emiliano Inusa, Momo Sissoko, Alvaro Arbeloa, Daniel Agger and Peter Crouch – then people kept saying you have a terrible record in the transfer market. In your first season, despite a poor squad, you won the Champions League in one of the most thrilling matches in football history. Key to the run to the final was your ability to squeeze out quality performances from limited players, most notably Igor Biscan. You also reached the League Cup final in that first season, losing to Chelsea 3-2 after extra time, and finished fifth in the league. The following season you won the FA Cup, beating Manchester United and Chelsea on the way to the final, when West Ham were edged out on penalties. In the league you guided Liverpool to third, missing out on the runners-up spot by just one point. That FA Cup success in Cardiff made you the only manager in the history of Liverpool Football Club to win major trophies in both of the first two seasons at the club. A year later you guided Liverpool to another Champions League final, again knocking out Chelsea on the way. This time it wasn’t to be, but you could be forgiven for thinking people may recognise that it is no mean feat to get that far – and no disgrace to lose to AC Milan. In the league, you took us to third place again. But 2007-8 was a poor year for you. You only reached the semi-finals of the Champions League and finished fourth in the league. Your job was offered to Klinsmann though, so maybe you could be forgiven for taking your eye off the ball. And so to last season. Quarter-finals of the Champions League, runners-up in the league with 86 points. The only team in English top-flight history to lose so few games and not be crowned champions. The best points total since 1988, but also the highest of any side in a 20-team league not to win the championship. Fair to say, you were unlucky. You took us so close to the much-coveted number 19. And let’s not forget, you’ve won 57 per cent of your games in charge of Liverpool, the same as Bob Paisley. So with all that in mind, you deserve some respect, right? You’ve done a great job in trying circumstances. You’ve proved you are what they said you were when you arrived from Valencia – a world-class manager. But it’s not enough. You’ve lost four games out of nine this season. You’ve sold a player, Xabi Alonso, who wanted to leave the club, for a huge profit to the biggest club in his home country. You might think your excellent record buys you some time in the job at Anfield and some patience from the fans, just like it does for Arsene Wenger, trophyless with Arsenal since 2005. Well not for some people. They’ve had enough. They want Jose Mourinho. A man in a job at Inter Milan, with a huge salary. A man who would cost a lot of money in compensation and in wages. Oh and we’d have to pay you off too, Rafa. But hang on, there’s no money… What’s that Rafa? You’re resigning? You don’t feel appreciated? You’ve had enough of fickle fans on phone-ins and internet forums sniping and moaning? Had enough of media men calling you “cold”, slagging off your tactics, harping on about zonal marking and questioning the timing of your substitutions? Hypothetical, of course. But it could happen. And it would be a huge problem for Liverpool if it did. Mourinho, Guus Hiddink, Fabio Capello…all top managers that trigger-happy fans have been mentioning as they debate Rafa’s replacement. But why would any of them come to Anfield? No money to spend, owners that hate each other, sky-high expectations and a demand for immediate results… Hardly the dream job is it? When Benitez was trying to renegotiate his contract at Valencia in 2004 he said: “My ideal scenario was continue the work I had started at Valencia. “But the managing director said to me, ‘If I give you two more years on your contract and then you lose three matches it is going to be my problem!” If that was how much respect my three years of work had earned, then it seemed obvious to me that they had little interest in me staying.” He later said: “It appears that I’m valued more outside the club than I am at Valencia itself.” Deja vu? It’s clear he likes to be loved. And for his record at Liverpool, he deserves to be. But if people turn against him so quickly, whose to say he won’t pack it in? It’s not like he would struggle to get another job. In the first post-Benitez year at Valencia, the club finished seventh, 26 points behind La Liga champions Barcelona. If Benitez resigns, or, as unlikely as it is given the financial situation, is sacked, Liverpool could go backwards too. I wonder what Alan Curbishley is doing these days…? (Credit to TIA)

You heard it here first.

Transfer League Seems pretty comprehensive showing the figures for each team and comparing since the premier league began.

Reports flying around the internet tonight are that of Liverpool and administration the rumour is purslow will put us into adminstration on september the 2nd so we cannot sell any of our stars !!!!! Please this cannot be true has anyone else heard this?? they are saying lfc going into administration is a way of flushing out a new buyer

that I'll be bollocked / negged / both for this, c'est la vie, but why, if I hear a rumour about a possible signing, do I have to wade through page after page of vaccuous, vitriolic bullshit on one thread to see if anyone's talking about said rumour? The rumour in question is that we might be going after Villa with the Alonso cash. I did try the Summer Transfer thread but gave up after reading a couple of pages of utter bollocks and mud slinging. So, at the risk of negs and bollockings*, anyone know anything about this? *If nothing else, at least it'll give you someone new to throw abuse at instead of eachother.

Couldn't find a thread about this, sorry if it's already been posted. http://www.deloitte.com/dtt/cda/doc/content/UK_SBG_ARFF2009_Highlights.pdf Whenever we discuss how much each club spend on players we often forget, or at least focus less on wages. According to the link from Deloitte we spend about half of what Chelsea do each year on wages. They actually spend over £80m on wages more than us. That's crazy. Here's a snippet: I would also like to state the bloddy obvious; players earn far to much. Whenever we moan about ticket prizes and expensive tv-deals we should remember who we are paying. They really should take some of the load these days and accept a pay cut. It will never happen I know, but that would be the right thing to do.

Liverpool to reveal increased profits at Anfield - Telegraph Liverpool will reveal increased profits and record turnover in annual accounts due to be published next week, though the club’s net debt is understood to have doubled to more than £80m. By Paul Kelso, Chief Sports Reporter Last Updated: 10:24PM BST 29 May 2009 Telegraph Sport can disclose that the club’s financial results for the year to July 2008 will show a 50% increase in profit before tax and depreciation at £37m, up from £25m in 2006-07 and turnover of £159.1m, a club record. They are also thought to show that the club’s net debt has almost doubled from £43.9m in 2007 to £86m last year. This is largely the result of the refinancing deal struck with RBS in February last year and the club drawing down a £19m loan to help develop plans for a new stadium. The club and its American co-owners George Gillett and Tom Hicks will argue that the level of debt is comfortably serviced by the club’s increasing profitability. The club’s debts cost £10m to service in 2007-08, though around £3m of that is thought to be bank charges arising from the re-financing. The accounts are also expected to reveal that the owners have also injected almost £80m in the club since the start of the 2007-08 season, around £35m of it to finance player acquisitions. Telegraph Sport understands that Hicks and Gillett provided around £58m in cash and other guarantees to their banks RBS and Wachovia when refinancing their £350m loans last year, effectively increasing their equity stake. They then provided £12m directly for players in 2007-08, and a further £21.3m last season. It is unclear whether this was fresh capital or drawn from loans secured against Liverpool’s parent companies. Hicks’ and Gillett’s £350m loan from the banks is split between the club’s parent company Kop Football Holdings Limited, which is responsible for £245m, with the remaining £105m secured against the club. In addition the club is also liable for a £79m inter-company loan, although it cannot be recalled if there is any danger that repaying it would make the club insolvent. Hicks and Gillett maintain that this financial structure makes Liverpool’s debt position more sustainable than their immediate rivals, and will point to the club’s improving commercial performance as evidence as they seek fresh investment ahead of refinancing talks with the banks in July. Talks with RBS have been ongoing for some months and it is thought that the bank will issue fresh terms to the Americans in the coming weeks. The owners will be optimistic that these accounts, combined with encouraging performance in the season just ended, will satisfy concerns over the club’s viability. Any questions will address the owners’ ability to service the debt at the holding company level. Both men have sought to sell portions of their US sports businesses in recent months in order to defend their postion in Liverpool, which now looks to be their prime sporting asset. The pair are also looking for third party investment to help them pay down debt and finance stadium plans and will hope these accounts help that search. The increase in revenue was largely due to a 60% increase in the Premier League TV deal but there were increases in merchandise and commercial income in 2007-08. The clubs is also expecting a boost from its online division Liverpool.tv, which it now owns outright having bought Granada’s 50% stake in March last year. It contributed £5m to profits in 2007-08 and the club is are forecasting that it will generate upwards of £10m annually.

I read a small thing in the papers yesterday which got me thinking about the unrealistic expectations of Liverpool fans these days. Owen Coyle – if he stays at Burnley – has been told he has a transfer budget of £15-20m this summer. My point is that this is the same as Liverpool’s budget (which, if you think about it, is simply the funds we got for selling Keane in January and nothing else). I wonder if Rafa’s biggest critics on these pages – we all know who they are - who have claimed that this season has been a "disappointment" and that Rafa "cost us the title" ever stop to think that they are living 30 years in the past. Yes, we’re a big club in terms of turnover (top 10 in the world) but we’re now in a position where we can get outbid by Spurs, Villa, and Arsenal - not to mention Manchester City, Chelsea and Man United. Last summer Rafa spent less in net terms than the managers of Sunderland and Stoke City; and not even half of that spent by Aston Villa. I’d love Rafa’s critics to tell me how they expect us to compete over a full season? When United had £55m of striker talent on the bench last night; when Chelsea are launching a £45m bid for Frank Ribery? We are punching above our financial weight at the moment, and it’s going to get worse as the nouveaux riches clubs continue to flex their muscles. It’s all very well saying we won’t get into bidding wars and players have to want to come here – that may work with some english players, like Gareth Barry whom I’m sure would choose us above Man City or Spurs, but how is that going to work with foreign stars without loyalty to the club? Why should they come to us when other teams offer bigger wages? Why should their clubs accept our offers when teams like Chelsea or Man City can outbid us easily? Yes, we can be smarter in the market (and I think Rafa should overhaul our scouting department, starting with Macia!); yes, we can develop our own talent like Barca. I’m not saying we should be defeatist. But the biggest danger is the sense of entitlement that so many of our fans have, harking back to the glory days. We consider ourselves to be a massive club. In some ways of course we are, but off the pitch we are not, and haven’t been for 20 years - and the takeover hasn’t arrested that decline (thanks DM). It would be a miracle for us to win the league at the moment, and yet Rafa very nearly carried that off this year. But for as long as many of the fans continue to treat the title as our birthright and act like spoilt brats, failing to acknowledge the real progress that we’ve seen this season, then we’re only going to fall further behind. Remember too that unrealistic expectations are what lie behind Newcastle's descent...

Anyone got a stream for the Villa game, PM please. Cheers in advance

How do you measure(rate) him? Is he surprising at least some?

A very simple but serious question Who would you replace him with? And how realistic would such an such an appoint be of actually taking place? For me I dont want Rafa sacked, I am not against sacking Rafa but I cant see a realistic appointment that would improve the team. If you can give a reasonable alternative for replacing Rafa then please let us know, so in other words put up or shut up:

I am using Spotify to reminisce some of the albums I copied in the 90s (to cassette), and I am trying to remember the name of following group: Nineties trio, from Ireland or Wales (I tihnk??) with a sort of grunge style (following on from Nirvana). Famous album is grey cover with a bloke bent over into a dustbin..(I think??) Anyone put me out of my misery please?

This made me smile. Page is Too Stupid