JoeBuck01

Not a Blue but maybe I haven’t got the venom towards them as some others…I’ve lived away from the City for 25 years and haven’t been to a Goodison derby since 97, so maybe not caught up with their daily bile.  Plus I go to some London games with my best mate whose a Blue when he’s down.

the Millwall comment was more that , after October 04 and their Hillsborough and John Peel songs, it was good to see them getting a pasting from a bunch of scousers.

As for Heysel, people were ringing into Radio City days after saying Chelsea fans were there. They weren’t and we may have been provoked, but it was on us.

5 minutes ago, tokyojoe said:

You fucking started it mate.

Wish I hadn’t. Let’s leave sleeping dogs lie.

1 minute ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

Do you think?

 

Contrary to Blueshite mythology, I've never known any Reds try to deny, ignore or downplay our guilt for the disaster. But it's always important to be honest about the complex causes of any disaster, or you'll never learn how to prevent the next one.

That’s my point really.  I think we have tried to dilute our responsibility for that night, and did so from the start ( some Chelsea fans were there etc).   if we hadn’t charged over, no one would have died , shit stadium or not.  It is on us.  
 

anyway, this is meant to be anti- blue thread ….btw, I was quite proud of them at Millwall a few years back.  Puts helmet on.

1 minute ago, tokyojoe said:

They were throwing dismembered parts of the ground at us. I was in tears when I got back to Heathrow the day after, fucking shattered. My mum, dad and ex to be were wrecks with worry. You really think the vast majority of us didn't care?

Of course not. We got our photos and fingerprints taken at Zeebrugge and were all spaced out and shattered about what happened, as well as being genuinely scared. I was with my Uncle who thankfully was a calming presence.  All a bit different earlier in the day at the Grand Place when we exchanged scarves with some Italians. It was a bad dream all round.

They were singing towards us, nothing much more than that…and a few people seem to be getting hassle, but our reaction was over the top. Ok, no one meant for anyone to die, but let’s hold our hands up, which we have  failed to do for 36 years. 
 

On 04/11/2021 at 14:31, Manny said:

Genuine point here, but why the fuck do they aim the blame for the Heysel ban entirely at us*? Looking at it logically**, regardless of the event itself, it was Uefa who chose to extend the ban to other English clubs, not us. So this means either:

• Heysel was the straw that broke the camel's back with regards to English football fans in Europe, in which case there's a share of the 'ban blame' that should extend to other English clubs: hooliganism was something that Uefa saw as an English football problem.
• Uefa were just arbitrarily extending the ban on their own volition, in which case they should be angry with Uefa for being so heavy-handed

I was about 3 weeks old when it happened so I'm genuinely curious. It's always struck me as a convenient stick to beat us with, when actually the majority of the ire should be directed elsewhere: placing the majority of the blame for the 'collective' element of a collective punishment on anyone but the authorities is a bit misguided?

 

*Yes, yes, I know.

**Yes, yes, I know.

Heysel  was 100% our fault and the most shameful day in our history. I was there and it is all on us…we killed 39 innocent people.  Fuck the irrelevant stories of a shit stadium ( it was no worst than others back then) or them attacking a father and son in the neutral section.. 

we had a load of wankers who couldn’t take their ale in the sun who thought it would be ok to attack a load of middle aged Italians. Cowards.
 

9 hours ago, DaveT said:

The Gary Sprake 'Careless hands' rendition must be up there too.

It was always funny when 20, 000 Kopites sang “Tina” at Shilton ( the lady he was caught naked with in a car in the late 70s). It seemed to inspire him more mind.

of course in those same Forest games, Viv Anderson would be getting a load of Tiswas’ Lenny Henry’s “ OKs” , the casual racism which was meant to be a “ laugh”. 
 

on United, there was a big problem with singing their songs between 82- 85( the Big Ron peak years ) and around 85 there was cries of shut the fuck up whenever the United Biscuit or Munich  songs got song. This social control meant those songs largely went underground after about 86…that’s when more creative versions such as “ Lost In Munich” or” Always Look on the Runway for Ice” were sung in the pubs pre and post match, but not in the ground.

Surely if you’re United you would go for a Galtier or a Ten Hag ie a Klopp type manager who has proved  themselves with a winning playing style that suits your Club.  Rather than some legend  of the past which plays well to the fans,  but who has an indifferent record in an inferior league. 

14 minutes ago, dockers_strike said:

Loved Souey as a player, as a manager, most of his success with Rangers was in buying players from the First Division to play in Scotland by offering them European football which they could not get in England at the time.

 

Yeah, souey was instrumental in turning Rangers around off the field as well but for anyone to equate Souey's time and methodology at Rangers to that of Stevie there, is simply ludicrous in the extreme.

 

Stevie has built a solid team not wheeled and dealed like Souey did with the likes of Mel Sterland for fuck's sake.

 

People obviously entitled to their own opinion but like I said, Stevie aint Souey. When \ if he leaves Rangers, I dont see him going to a Championship club or a lower PL team. It'll either be us or someone else in the top 6.

 

You look at some of the clowns who've managed Spurs, united and chelsea recently to see where he'll go.

 

I'll stick my neck out now and say we've a better chance of continuity with Stevie coming in after Jurgen, whenever that is, rather than someone completely new to the club coming in and taking over.

 

Some people have mentioned Ljinders as manergerial material but he tried managing in Holland and was sacked off within 6 months and couldnt wait to get back to coaching under Jurgen.

Yep, let’s leave this thread to the mancs  demise.   The Stevie debate should be left to another day when we’ve seen more seasons under him. Hope I’m proved wrong and he turns out to be a top manager. Still too early to judge either way.

Fair enough, but he has much to do to prove himself worthy as Jurgen’s successor.  Don’t appoint on emotion/ heritage , do it on merit, personality and vision. 

Yes, bigger  than Hodgson, that bad. We’ve got got to learn the mancs lesson.

19 minutes ago, 3 Stacks said:

The thing with FSG though, is we have a sample size of two for appointments they've made; the unproven "young manager with ideas" in BRodge and then Klopp who was a sure thing, and obviously we got lucky with the timing of that and everything. 

 

So really, are names like Potter all that ridiculous? Who can say, they hired one of those before. We may be Dortmund, not Bayern after all. Maybe we've evolved since 2015, maybe not. 

 

Still think Gerrard will be most likely, though. 

Gerrard would be the biggest mistake this Club ever made - our Ole, Frank or whatever other emotional appointment which never works out.  As great as player he was, I doubt he will be a top manager. Let’s not history repeat itself …because Souey did great at Rangers, it transfers. It won’t. When he eventually goes, we need the Jurgen successor to be the continuous candidate ( the Paisley to Shankly), not the daft emotional appointment.

Loved this, thanks lads.  As I was a bit half cut yesterday,  listened to it tonight while making tea with a bottle of vino….perfect tone and an everlasting recording of how ecstatic every Red felt after yesterday.

the only thing I would disagree on is Mo and Suarez ( known as The Rat).  He is way beyond his level and nearer to Kenny’s.

still, nice one for capturing yesterday… agree with Dave about being disappointed not to get 8!

47 minutes ago, magicrat said:

Given he’ll be written down to nothing in their books still good business for them 

His last home game for us against QPR, I remember a lot of the old skool Kemmy boys giving him shit…” hey Sterling, you’re a worm”.He naturally looked round perplexed.

Not sure we give him the love he deserved either and his embrace with his landlords and appreciation at the 2019 Charity Shield showed he still cared for us.  I would love him back.

Surely it’s not whether you do it but how you do it. Barnsey was being paying £10k a week when the next best paid was £2k.  Get Nike to pay him £10m a year in a sponsorship deal and we pay him £300k.

The James song is great but he could rightly get Kennyesque levels of devotion if he committed and we take the only dark cloud away.  Mo would already get in any all time Liverpool 11 and, with another 4 years, would  surely be be in the running as our greatest player ( from someone who saw Kenny score against Newcastle on his doubt).

2 hours ago, Belarus said:

Spot on

This.  Only saw the latter years of Cally but what I saw and heard from my folks, he should be in any all time 11. As should Billy of course, but we only had the privilege of watching Barnsey.. 
 

Souey and Stevie would be the greatest midfield pairing of any English team, even though both were treacherous bastards.

1 hour ago, 3 Stacks said:

I like Tchouameni, but I'm not sure he's a fit in our midfield. He's great at plenty of things but if he's playing ahead of Fabinho in a 4-3-3, it's maybe not good enough technically. He'll have loads of top clubs after him next summer, though.

Haven't really seen him at Monaco but in the French games in the last week, he seemed to be doing the pressing whilst Pogba slumbered by.  Looked technically gifted too. Don’t like the look of Kessie who seems too slow, but this kid seems like he’s got everything and just needs to be Klopped.

Yep, I remember getting off at Kirkdale that day and there was an atmosphere unlike any before or since....blood was in the air. When that gate opened between the Park End and The Enclosure, I've never seen so many try and pile through.

The worst violence I've seen at Anfield was an October League Cup game against West Ham  in 82  I think. Only 28, 000,  but there must have been running battles in every street around Anfield that night. Anyone not involved had to take cover in the doorways.

I think mine was Oxford in March 87…it started at New Street where all the trains got cancelled and about 50 of us kicked up such a stink, that the British Transport Police put on an impromptu “Special” to Oxford, with two ropey old carriages.

we get to the beautiful Manor Ground ( built like a Subbetto set with a new Stand each year) and the Coach scals chased the local lads round the ground. It seemed unnecessary to us. After the match, which we won 3-2 and nah nah nah Spackman made his debut, we heard down the hill through Oxford.

the coach scals go home sticking vs to anyone they see behind their windows. In the meantime, the local youths, chastened , decide to pick off any red they see walking through the town.  It’s cowardly, but there’s quite a few Somerset reds who got punched that day and when we all amassed at the Station, there’s a gang of locals throwing bricks, hitting lots of parked cars. Despite lots of Police trying to persuade us to get on the first train to Leamington we head back into the Town, chasing and taking out anyone we caught with,.

About 20 of us ended up in a student boozer until 9pm, we missed our Crewe connection, and ended up at Lime Street at 7am on the Sunday  morning.  After the Specials disappeared in 85, it became rarer to have a decent crack on British Rail, who basically hated football fans, but we got away with one that day.

I was lucky enough to watch us in the 70s and 80s and I would say it's the best team ever. My  Dad, who has been going since the mid 50s, thinks the same.

The late 70s team was sublime but people would get on Ray Kennedy's back for being lazy, or David Johnson's back for being crap. Even Souness got stick in his first few seasons.

The 87-90 team soon became  out muscled and therefore outplayed by the likes of Arsenal ( remember when they came to Anfield in the League Cup and blew us away).

Last season aside, can't see it happening with this team,  but they need to follow up with more of the same trophies over the next 3 years to make this valid.

2 minutes ago, Saintslfc13 said:

Who's going to take them? We haven't had a great direct Free kick taker since Coutinho left.

Mo and Thiago when fit. Trent is just wasteful…aka Roberto Carlo and Ronaldo…everyone remembers the rare occasions when he scored. 
 

even Curt, who I thought was brilliant today. He gives us someone extra.

I just think we were too casual ….two years ago, Fabinho would have put his foot through their first, Virg would have cleared everyone for their second, and Joel wouldn’t have been so half arsed for their third.

it wasn’t just their goals though….Mo should have slotted away his casual chip and too many back heels around their penalty area…even from Hendo. The 1st half of 19- 20 would have had none of this complacency.

on the plus, Ivan Toney is a future Liverpool number 9.  Imagine him feeding through the two wingers with his clever flick ons, plus his finishing, movement and pressing. Plus he’s a boyhood Liverpool fan, even from Northampton.

The idea of Conte being in charge of that United squad scares me. Let Ole keep “progressing” for two more seasons.

On 19/09/2021 at 18:25, bossy said:

It’s probably Diouf if I bothered to not engage emotionally but I hated, and still do, Phil fucking bastard Babb. He was incapable of passing a ball, heading it or even looking at it. Phill fucking Babb. 

I remember watching Ireland lose to Austria in the Irish Centre  in 95. Babb and Mcateer both feigned injury and popped their head round the corner half arsed with Ireland losing 3-1. The pub nearly lynched them.

still, despite Babb’s limitations and nocturnal dalliances,  I still see Collymore as our worst ever signing. We could and should have signed Sheringham who would have done to our 94-95 team what Cantona did for their nearly rans.  If Roy had a leader on the pitch, who knows how that Team would have developed…instead he had The Disruptor  Stan who once jumped on the poor kid Warner after a Fowler had ripped up his suit.

As well as a great player, he seems a really good kid.  He showed his class in the way he applauded their applauds, although the songs Leeds fans sang when he was down and afterwards, confirms why they are utter scum. “There’s only one Don Revie” during the Busby minute silence. Down there with Millwall and Chelsea IMO.

Just a quick comment on the reaction of players when someone has a horrific injury, and this nothing on just Mo. Instead of always running away with head in hands, maybe support the poor sod who has had a career threatening injury and is lying in pain.  Imagine if a soldier ran away at the sight of their comrade with a their guts spilling out. That’s when they need their mates most.