Gnasher

A golden oldie,

It is indeed up the Ukrainians just as it's up to us whether we believe its in our interests to keep funding their war effort. As for Russia, offer as little as it takes to make them withdraw yet they can still claim some sort of victory. I believe they call it 'offering your enemy a golden bridge' to retreat over.

They shouldn't but their people are getting slaughtered and displaced, they are being propped up by western money and weapons and their economy is close to collapse. So the sooner the Russians fuck off the better. https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2022/04/ukraine-economy-decline-war/

A regime change could in Russia could solve it. Suprised Putes hasn't been bumped off tbh. It appears the stories of him being unwell and close to death were unfounded. He could outlast the leaders in the west. I'm not sure you can cause the amount the Yanks have stuck in as insignificant, the longer this goes on its going to become a black hole. Not to mention the Ukrainian economy is obviously fucked and will need massive investment. As for the calibre of people calling for talks, Kissinger is indeed a cunt of the highest order but he was once a massive political/military strategist for Americans involving themselves in other countries. Another is the former head of the British Army. Our modern day politicians care just fit themselves. Boris Johnson couldn't give a fuck about the shabby treatment afforded to Ukrainian refugees trying to enter Britain. As for Russia admitting defeat and imploding, maybe, but that could take years, they're a resilient people.

Sanctions vary in form and severity. Obviously the targeting oligarchs etc was just and popular. We've now had six rounds of differing sanctions (although it's hard to keep count) the latest was described by Faisel Islam, the beebs economic correspondent as akin to severe 'economic war' which goes far beyond normal sanctions. The blocking of Russian oil etc has been disastrous for the European economy. The 'economic' sanctions are crippling us as much as them. Talk of banning Russian nationals from entering the EU is as ridiculous as banning Russian tennis players, although at least it won't impact us financially. Just another example of scattergun thinking. If people such as diverse as Henry Kissinger and the ex head of the British army are saying its time to rethink then maybe we are heading down the wrong path.. Plus public support for providing Ukraine with unconditional assistance could easily change when times over here get hard, which they soon will. How do you think this conflict will end?

'Enoch Burke, what a fucking name. I'd rather you call me anything than that.

A few bargaining points for a Russian withdrawal would be the west pledging Ukraine won't be allowed join Nato or the EU plus the end of sanctions.

No I'm not against sanctions as such. I'm not against providing certain military aid, I'm 100% in favour of providing humanitarian aid. The sanctions should have remained targeted, now they're bringing us to our knees, the evidence is stark and its going to get worse. Look at Germany announcing today they have to revert to coal, the planets spinning out of control. I agree on the state of the Russian military offensive, they're no real danger to us, we should revise our response accordingly. No end in sight to this. It could carry on for years, Zelensky is now saying it won't be over till Russia leaves Crimea, so that's never. Turkey invaded Cyprus in 1974 and they're still there now. All sides negotiated on the release of grain, so it can happen. That General and others are right, we desperatly need talks, how else is will it end?

It's how he'd want to be remembered.

Valid point,

The war is obviously going to hit their economy but the effect on Europe's is proving disastrous. Germany are going back to using coal, the world's dirtiest fossil fuel. We have a hosepipe ban and Pakistan are experiencing floods through climate change. But we're sticking it to Putin, so swings and roundabouts, It ain't getting better anytime soon. This ex British general has a point, we desperately need to explore other avenues.

Banned because loads of gymnasts tried to replicate Korbut but got a snapped neck for their efforts. First time a gymnast scored the perfect 10.

I don't think the International Monetary Fund would spin a an optimistic yarn to favour the Russians tbh. I think these economic reports have a fair degree of accuracy. https://english.alarabiya.net/News/2022/07/26/Russian-economy-doing-well-despite-sanctions-IMF Meanwhile; https://www.theguardian.com/business/2022/aug/31/uk-food-price-inflation-hits-highest-level-since-global-financial-crash

Yeah its very uncomfortable at times but then her genius on some songs is just breathtaking. She said she learnt the piano because of her love of Bach. She was certainly one of a kind.

Starmers u turn looking more ludicrous and out of touch with each passing day.

Bunch of bastards.

Ah OK, sorry Harry.

Yep.

Because its not sustainable. War costs and it'll hurt both Europe and Russia badly in the medium/long term. Unfortunately our (Britain/Germany/Europe) economic situation seems even more perilous than Russia's, although America's economy seems to be holding up. Start negotiating now, they did with the grain. It is a damage limitation move, we would be ending it sooner because it suits our interests. The alternative could be a long drawn out war where European public opinion wavers as its economy sinks down the plughole.

Nice pair.

Sorry but Brexit has little to do with 'Englands' water companies fouling 'your' waters. Scotland are out of the EU yet their water is still owned by the public. Wales has some pollution although its fairly minimal as water is run as a non profit industry. England meanwhile...hmm, I don't want to spoil this thread by turning it into another Brexit ding dong so I'll leave you with the pic below,