diego

Let's see if I understand the logic of the anti-Rafa orthodoxy. If Rafa holds unto someone who was considered by some to be "the best player" last year, he is not following TLW. But if he lets him go then the credit for following TLW should go to Kenny - or anyone but Rafa. Also, why would the selling club visit the buying club to arrange a transfer?

I agree with you. The "destablising force" argument is hokum. Alonso's tried that technique already and it didn't work. His public statement about Paco could be interpreted as public criticism of Rafa and the club's administration and an attempt to foment discontent in the squad. Instead of publicly rebuking him, as he was entitled, Rafa let it go. Then Alonso breached FIFA regulations and his contract by authorising his agent to conduct clandestine negotiations with Perez and personnel at Real Madrid even before our season ended. He went so far as to discuss his wages, signing-on fee and transfer fee and how best to secure the transfer. Then he fed at least one journalist with his version of events without allowing attribution in the hope of pressuring Rafa and the club to acceed to his demands. It must have been frustrating for Rafa. He would have been informed by his contacts at Real Madrid what Alonso was up to, but could not call him out because Alonso would not admit in public what he was doing in private. Also Rafa genuinely wanted to keep him and confrontation was not the best way of doing that. I doubt very much that Alonso has the ability to be a "destablising force". Torres made the unusual statement that Alonso is a bit of a hermit and he (Torres) never knows what he's thinking. Alonso may not be a world-class player but he is an important cog in a settled side and for that reason its understandable if Rafa wants to keep him. If he is "forced " to stay then Rafa will "manage" his discontent in the same way he has managed it for the last two years. All of the above in my opinion.

If Rafa had his way we would have had Barry for one year by now playing alongside Alonso. I think Rafa always knew that Alonso's commitment was dicey. Torres has described Alonso as a "bit of a hermit" and he doesn't know what he thinks. It would have been good team-building to have developed Barry as an insurance against the possibility of Alonso being injured, losing form again or wanting to leave - as well as for rotation. As it is, thanks to what Toxeth Terrier describes as a "brilliant decision" by the Board i.e. by Parry and GH and GG, Rafa was not allowed to have Barry last year. As a result we may find ourselves scrambling for a replacement for Alonso . Hopefully, after the improvements to Rafa's contract, his plans won't be messed about by "brilliant" amateurs on the board ever again.

We may very well face Real Madrid and Barcelona in the late rounds, or even the final, of the CL next season. Looking ahead to that (and other possibilities) they have decided they want two of our key players. They both had the opportunity to sign Alonso and Mascherano at much lower prices five and two years ago. But it was Rafa who signed and developed them and the LFC supporters who built their confidence. What kind of subservient mentality is it that says if those two teams want our players they should have them at a price they dictate and if the players want to go we should not stand in their way.

If Alonso was badly injured he would expect LFC to be loyal to his contract and pay his wages in full for another three years as well as all the costs of his rehabilitation. The same would be true if he lost form again and was left out of the first team. He was very happy to sign that 5-year contract. He owes loyalty to LFC and the arguments that he "deserves" to leave two years into the contract doesn't wash. At the very least he should forego his loyalty bonus.

There are no quotes because it is part of Alonso's modus operandi not to be quoted. However, as some of us have said repeatedly, he has been trying to attract an offer from Real Madrid for several months, while at the same time trying to protect his loyalty bonus and his position at LFC should his behind-the-scenes manipulations fail. For better or worse his main motivation is money. Only the gullible would believe it has anything to do with his baby, Paco, Rafa or homesickness. Incidentally those who talk about the "offers" from RM offers should note that, according to LFC, no offer has been received. I agree with your position.

Brendan, did all the other girls at your schools use rude words or were you special?

I trust Rafa but did not understand the Keane transfer in. However I did understand and applaud his decision to get rid of him quickly and preserve as much of the money as he did. Apart from that, I think all of his transfers in and out have been good given that he did not control the negotiating process and that many of his preferred targets were judged by his bosses at LFC to beyond budget. He also seems to have made a net "profit" overall.

Torres said last year that while he enjoys not being captain and admires SG's captaincy, he would like to become captain again in the distant future. He already acts like a captain. I'd be glad to see it made formal.

Thanks, but I'm better than all of them but not half as good as you

"...is that what you're saying?" Adjust your bi-focals and read it again. "...your paltry efforts at sophistry notwithstanding"" said the party of the second part to the party of the first part, whereforall, howsoever and notwithstanding.

ATK said the Barry deal was done - it wasn't. And Rafa's response to the question yesterday does not mean LFC made a bid. My understanding was that LFC told Barry last year that they would continue to be interested if he became available this year, subject to budget and other considerations. They assumed from what he told them that Barry would continue to be interested in an offer from LFC. This year they asked Villa to keep them informed. As soon as Manchester City made their offer it was clear that LFC could not compete on price, even if they wanted to, unless Barry refused the Man City move. The issue quickly became academic because Barry immediately accepted the City offer having previously declared he would not allow the same drawn-out process that occured last summer. Rafa indicated yesterday that he had been interested in Barry again this summer. But that is not the same as saying a bid was made let alone that a deal was done. And it is a long way from saying that he was interested in replacing Alonso with Barry - which is what was what was behind the many critical comments on here. In fact, last summer, after Rafa said he wanted to keep Alonso he also said he wanted Barry. He said he could use them both.

He's saying: "Go on give me a preview of the unveiling."

I'd also like to congratulate him for his past reports and his new appointment. The Times will benefit from a writer who is tuned-in to grassroots knowledge at LFC. Some of their past LFC-related pieces have been too influenced by players' agents for my liking. There has also been a certain London chattering class superficiality about them.

If Torres stays fit he will knock him down a peg on the top-ten list and that's without the aid of penalties and free kicks. Even SG could overtake him if he keeps playing in a forward position.

Not the same thing, I know, but last summer a poll among RM fans put Alonso as their No. 1 Spanish target. So, to that extent, the idea has been percolating.

No it isn't. Bascombe was the Echo's main reporter for LFC, and as such had privileged access to information from LFC and was allowed to travel abroad with the team. He also had his own column in the Football Echo and he marketed himself as a ghost-writer to the players. He claimed to be close to various players apparently confusing personal closeness with their understandable desire to get special treatment from the Echo's main reporter and to use him as a ghost-writer. He used the claim of personal closeness to add weight to his gossip. He presented himself as being more than a reporter - an enlightened super-fan who was ITK. He associated himself with this forum (TLW) and posted here. While his position did give him access to genuine, reliable information which he reported well, and while he persistently wrote some first-class game reports and was and is a genuine fan, he was also very active in fomenting malicious gossip about Fowler in much the same way he currently foments malicious gossip about Rafa. He made himself a willing tool of Houllier's "media politics" which renders his current attempt to paint Rafa as "political" particularly galling. As part of this scenario he was also a devotee of Owen. Eventually when the tide of supporter opinion turned against Houllier and when Owen began to suffer prolonged periods of poor form amidst rumours of him being over his head in gambling, Bascombe belatedly "saw the light" and began to put the boot into Houllier. At the same time he tried to win back Fowler's trust by approaching him and admitting to him that he had been persistently biased against him. He blamed Houllier for his own bad judgement. He then began to defend Fowler. Bascombe has admitted this "conversion". Since Bascombe joined the NoW he has lost his access to information from LFC. At the same time he is under contract to churn out gossip every week for the Murdoch Press. He tries to fill the vacuum by relying uncritically on anyone who will talk to him and they tend to be the disaffected and "political". When he was with the Echo he rightly used to complain that other newspapers and websites used to steal and re-package his work and claim it as their own. Now the shoe is on the other foot. To meet his deadline he lifts pieces of gossip from this and that website, and weaves stories from themes already speculated about in the daily press. He rarely if ever quotes a source by name or even by general description. He hardly ever gets specific and when he does he is more often wrong than right. You mock those on here who are irritated by his output and say they should not read him. That is unreasonable. The NoW sells 4 million copies. Its website is visited by many millions more. Its headlines are repeated by thousands of websites and news aggregates all over the world. Is is cited every week as a source of news about LFC by other newspapers - especially the Murdoch Press - and by Murdoch and other TV stations. His misinformation is troubling enough for the club that LFC have put out statements denying them. You are entitled to your opinions and you are not shy about expressing them - repeatedly. But why are you so sensitive about being called out for your clear anti-Rafa bias? Its consistent with your laboured attempts to defend and excuse Bascombe's past and current role in media politics, your exaggerated assessment of Owen's former abilities and your defence of his current conduct, as well as your snide remarks about Fowler's attitude when he was one of the greatest LFC players. These remarks of mine do not refer to Bascombe's articles today. Those articles are muddled and unreferenced and no more than his usual second and third-hand speculation but he does seem to have taken pains to remove his usual anti-Rafa bias although he could not resist trying somehow to relate Rafa to Owen's actions when clearly there is no connection whatsoever.

They'd all bounce of his scar tissues.

It's impossible because he would never be bought or selected for a team like ours, hence our disinterest in him every time he puts himself on the market - glossy sales brochure or no.

Bascombe admitted to his role. He turned on Houllier (but only after the supporters had decided they had enough of him) and tried to crawl back to Fowler.

Rubbish.

Cast your mind back to when John and his ilk were besotted with Owen when they were airily tossing around the sum of at least 50 million pounds as his putative value in the transfer market. Then look at their revisionism now in dismissing his tactics then in engineering himself a move to Real Madrid for 8 million (and a 1 million midfielder).

Route 1 because he was not versatile enough or technically capable of any other style over a season.

Its not revisionism. Some of us have been saying this stuff for years, especially when he was at LFC. I understand that you were besotted by him at that time which is your privilege. But most LFC supporters were not sucked in by his single-minded self-promotion when he played for us. Many us believed the team and the club would do better by getting rid of him much earlier than when he decided to leave - and we were right. Stop describing past victories as his personal achievement. He was coddled by the management. Even with all his advantages his best scoring result in the league was 19 goals including several penalties and that was only once. Thank God that Rafa's arrival scared the shit out of him.

I see SCM are already following that policy automatically changing the spelling of his name. I also like the suggestion on YNWA that he be called "Minnie Mi" and the crowd at Anfield yell "Mi" in a high-pitched voice when he touches the ball (if he has the guts to show up). May as well have a laugh at his expense.