Duncan Clench

Mate I'm bored of explaining the same point to you over and over again while being called all sorts. Sort yourself out. Yes, I'm suggesting that some Labour voters (not supporters) might vote UKIP. You don't know why people vote the way they do, and we've touched on the fact, in this very thread (that you appear reluctant to read, preferring to take snippets at which you can spout bilious crap) that there are more than a few people who vote based on such wealth of information as what a person looks like. Just as easily, they could vote for the Tories. And they did. Why you think it so mind-blowing that Labour could turn UKIP I don't know... especially when a whole load went Tory. http://diamondgeezer.blogspot.co.uk/2015/05/majority-2015.html?m=1 This article shows how close some of the marginal were (and goes on to suggest that 901 votes could have changed the outcome which I wouldn't take too much notice of unless that's the bit you decide to focus on and then rant about). Lots of people went from Labour to Tory (and to UKIP and Green), I think if Milliband had not dismissed the notion of a coalition then he would have kept more of those voters, and it's clear that it doesn't take many to make a big difference in the marginals. If someone could change their vote based on the looks of a leader, then why couldn't they change based on the fact that Miliband would rather let the Tories in than entertain a coalition?

As I said in my original post, the UKIP and Green votes were up massively. As was, obviously, SNP - where previously Labour held seats. It didn't take many seats to weaken the Tory majority and they would've struggled to create a coalition. Which is what the polls were predicting, no?

You don't think that rejecting the almost guaranteed option to get the Tories out didn't sway the option of some floating voters in England? I think it would have.

Jesus... you're really struggling with this simple premise today aren't you? At no point did I say the public prefer politicians that don't answer. The twisting is being done in your head, not mine. I said it's best not to be so firm in rebutting the SNP's offer. Just play the game. Why would the only votes they lose be in Scotland? He turned down the option to get the Tories out. That potentially riles many a Labour voter. Marginal seats could have been won from the Tories (or not lost in a lot of cases) therefore reducing the majority and making it very difficult for the Tories to form a government. ...and the point I have spectacularly missed is not much of a point at all is it? It's conjecture from someone who seemingly doesn't have the ability to read what people write.

Yes, I haven't got a clue. I'm so sorry. Either that or you aren't actually thinking things through, or indeed reading what I post. Let's be clear on one thing though; I am allowed to have an opinion without being called a fucking fruitcake, so do try to keep the name calling down. It doesn't offend me in any way, but it's not a good way to debate, is it? You're obviously very emotional about it, but it wasn't my fault that the Tories got elected. From the top then... Re the SNP. He should have said 'I'm fighting to win and I won't talk about hypotheticals'. Repeat, ad nauseum. Yes, people hate politicians because they don't answer questions directly, among the other things like lying, stealing and generally being odious. But that's a fact. They don't answer questions directly. Why? Because they can be held accountable. I'm not saying it's right, but it's a fact. I don't like it, nobody does, but it ain't about to change. I'm not saying that because the Tories dodged questions they got more votes, obviously. I'm saying that because Miliband answered a direct question, nay PLEA, from Nicola Sturgeon saying (I'm paraphrasing because I don't have the quote) 'don't dismiss this and let the Tories in' - with a resounding NO - that people might well have been turned away from the party.

Not a good enough alternative though, that's my point. A few policies here and there, but actually it's status quo.

Sorry mate, didn't realise we had someone on the forum that knows absolutely everything about politics, and not only that, knows how people would vote in hypothetical situations. Quite a talent. Anyway, I didn't suggest he go into coalition but that he didn't dismiss it out of hand. Much like the Tories who didn't dismiss ANY type of coalition but simply stuck to the mantra of 'we're not getting into hypotheticals'. Non-committal, doesn't alienate any voters (in fact does the opposite) and also doesn't even give an answer... which is what politicians love. The very simple reason that they never give straight answers to questions is because it comes back to bite them in the arse. Miliband did it, and in MY opinion, it cost Labour votes. maybe not enough to win... but the seats go somewhere.

Not forgetting of course that a lot of people, myself included, voted for a 'small' party to send the message that the legacy parties are not up to it. Hence the swing towards Greens, UKIP and SNP in Scotland.

Perhaps I didn't explain that very well. I'm not suggesting that he actually GO into coalition with the SNP, just not dismiss the idea out of hand. More seats in Scotland that way (possibly/probably) and more votes from the Labour 'supporters' that voted elswhere, because they're then seen as doing anything to get the Tories out which is a vote winner for them.

I don't think we can have any complaints to be honest. Yes the idea of a majority Tory Government isn't great, but rather than blaming 'cunts' for voting Tory, shouldn't the blame be laid firmly at the Labour party's door? They didn't offer a good enough alternative. The Lib Dems didn't campaign hard enough on what they did right in the coalition, so their vote was diluted and given to UKIP, Green and Tory. I strongly feel that if Ed Miliband hadn't completely dismissed the idea of coalition with the SNP then they'd be in power right now. In short, you can't blame Tory voters for voting Tory. You should be blaming the Labour party for not gaining more of the Lib Dem and SNP vote, which was fair game and on offer. The cunts.

Loving all this. Been in bands since I was a kid and have always been into unsigned stuff, probably more than mainstream music. Excellent work all round. Spent the last 2 years (yes, seriously that long) designing and creating an app through which my band will be releasing all its music. As far as we're aware nobody else is doing it, and we've had a good number of downloads so far. Every time we release a new song you get a notification and the song is automatically on the app. Pretty smart. The app is for iOS and Android at the mo, working on the Windows version now. That's not really the point of the thread, granted... but if you wanted to have a go you can get it from www.mrmsith.co.uk/app - and here's a couple of tracks for a listen. https://youtu.be/bUfIR-gFz-8 https://youtu.be/612K5QANiFU

I do think the fact that it was an atomic bomb brought an end to the war faster than if it were blanket bombing. Imagine the leaders of Japan and Germany thinking "Fuck, how many of THESE have they got? We've got no chance.".

Well that's up to you... if you want to try and clean those bastards that's up to you. Ovens... go for mid-height, and get one of these: http://www.neff.co.uk/features-slide-hide.html

We went for deep drawers all-round, with corner cupboards obviously. It works really well. The top drawer has a 'hidden' drawer within it to accommodate cutlery and stuff. We also went for Corian, which I recommend but it is expensive. Oh, and get and induction job. They're brilliant.

Damn right! No, but it raises another good point. Neither UKIP or anyone else is saying that we need to send people back. Nor are they arguing with asylum, which of course is the right thing to do. AF's experience is one which wouldn't be blocked, as far as I can tell anyway. He works hard I'm sure, he's got a job here. The point being that nobody is saying close the border to immigration, just get better control of it.

The Polish thing yeah? Well that's his experience. It's going to have an influence on how a person votes, no? He might be an outrageous racist as far as I know, but there are better ways of debating the points made. Your opinion may be the polar opposite, but does that mean you want as many Polish people in the UK as possible? There isn't a party that are saying they want more immigration from Europe, and that's because it would be unpopular. Just playing devils advocate... trying to get the discussion back on track.

Well, for the sake of debate (and coming from a left-wing political bent, I should add)... From what I gather from interviews and the UKIP manifesto, their actual stance is that they would limit the European freedom of movement (in employment terms obviously) with a view to open it up globally. Farage said in interview that the options are currently limited to Europe, but what if the best man for the job is from outside of Europe? I.E. currently we're obliged to take Europeans. I don't know if these are facts by the way.

...and just as an aside, I think the UKIP debate is always overshadowed by the racism angle. Tell me there are no racists in the Labour or Tory parties.

Ah the beauty of political debate. Do you vote for your own interests? Do you vote for the good of the Country? If you opt for the latter, how do you know if what's good for one area is bad for another? I'm a liberal chap (not voting like that necessarily), so surely we'd be better off discussing the pros and cons of the minor parties like UKIP/Green/Lid Dem rather than shouting down anyone whose opinion isn't what you agree with? We've had status quo with the 'main' parties for so long it's hardly a surprise that a party, or parties, that offer something clear and different are going to attract votes is it? Government has been pretty fucking awful for decades, and now there is an apparent 'other choice'. Having said that, it's going to be a coalition, right? So what's the best coalition? Labour/SNP, Labour/LibDem? Tory/UKIP or Tory/LibDem. How much influence can the smaller parties possibly have? Them's your options, as far as I see it.

Yeah it's the hub. They're shit. Get them to send you a new one. While you're on the line just say you can't connect despite anything they tell you to do. It really is worth investing in a good router, regardless of the fact you feel you've paid them. You pay for the service, not the hardware, so it's shite. Bag yourself a good router and your Infinity will be reliable and fast. Also, you should go into the admin settings in there and turn if you bandwidth sharing. They nab loads of your bandwidth to make BT hotspots. Their customer service is fucking diabolical.

If you're into it, it's a good career move because there are so many options open to you after you qualify. My wife did Accountancy and Business at Uni, then got a job with KPMG who pay well from the start and put you through your professional training (well they used to anyway). She was doing ICAEW and got the best score in the Country (clever one she is) and then immediately left KPMG because they don't pay well, comparatively, once you're qualified. She then got a job as CFO in a small London-based insurance brokers and hasn't looked back since. Moral of the story? Well it is what you make of it, like any other job I suppose. 4 years of training for the professional qualification though, and the CPD is strictly required in order for you to remain a part of your institute. Which costs around £800p/a for ICAEW.

Is this an amnesty thread?

Pesti, I mentioned before that my mother-in-law has a Q3 which I took out for quite a long drive. Was very impressed by it. Test drive the 3 litre diesel if you can. Goes very well and I think it's got an 8 speed auto which is very efficient. Anyway, something a bit 'in between' to look at maybe.

Flixanity claimed that cartoonHD had stolen their database and were making moves to shut them down. Don't know how much truth there is in that. Flixanity themselves were being the attention seeking teenager themselves not too long ago.

The Kanger tanks are very nice looking but I've never actually used one. From a purely aesthetic view I don't like the Nautilus tanks because I like the more modern look so I got the v scope tank which is £20 and holds 3.7ml liquid. All the new ones coming out seem to be sub ohm and that's clearly not for me.