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thechap

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Everything posted by thechap

  1. Let's come back to it in 5 years time and we'll see.
  2. My heart says he should stay as leader because with him Labour have zero chance of being elected. Zero. It makes no difference how many Labour Party members wanted him. It's the people who aren't party members that are FAR more important and Corbyn has no chance convincing enough of those people to vote for him. You have a party leader who is an electoral liability but his supporters are too blinded by the hard-left suddenly having power and being desperate to cling on to it to realise he will keep you out of government. My head says a pisspoor opposition is bad for democracy and wants him out. .
  3. Although I don't know enough about Stephen Crabb to say he isn't one, the only one who seems a decent human being is Andrea Leadsom. I'm not saying she is Prime Minister material but she seems like a good person. I would have Michael Gove as my choice from the rest because I believe his views about leaving the EU are genuine and not political manoeuvring. Therese May I think is a witch. She claims to be strong and listed her reasons for saying she is. Abu Qatada took years to deport - that dpoesn't seem strong to me. She crows about having taken on the Police Federation. Well, it's easy to claim success against an opponent who has no political weapons at their disposal with which to fight you. She would have folded against the doctors or against train drivers. She sounds strong when she reads from a speech. When she has to answer on the hoof she sounds weak.
  4. Despite the whinging, the tears, the protestations, the ridiculous 'second referendum petition', the prophesies of doom, the accusations of racism and the name-calling of 'Little England thinking', history will show that this decision was the best decision for the future of this country. Within a few years even all the hard-lefties on here will see that the country is thriving outside of the EU and doing better than if we had remained. Immigration will still happen - just at the rate we need and set for ourselves We will still sell things to the rest of the EU We will still buy things from them The seas around our coasts will be fished solely by UK fishermen once gain, an industry that will be able to reverse declines We will be able to support any of our industries that need support House prices will start to become more affordable We will sell more to the rest of the world We will be responsible for our own laws. If you don't like them - vote for the opposition We will once again be responsible for our own destiny We will not be part of the EU when it eventually folds in on itself - it's only a matter of time. The doomsayers need to take a hard look at themselves. This is the first vote I have ever taken part in where I truly felt that mine and every other persons individual vote counted and mattered. The first vote where I have felt that this really was as close an exercise in true democracy as there could be, despite the lies from both camps. Onwards and upwards!
  5. Brilliant. We'll shut down the debate then. The logic of the Left - we don't like you're opinion so we're going to stop you giving it and if that doesn't work we'll go right off topic to obfuscate your points.
  6. Err... his post contained all of the information. Which I read. What point are you making?
  7. Some fantastic nuanced disinformation here too and quite deliberately done. Which immigrant? Which Muslim? When you make statements such as this that distort the truth you become a bigger problem than the original issue. Mate - look back through this thread at some of your own posts and satisfy yourself that you have the authority to question how intellectual others' responses have been. I have over the years seen you do this many times. Mock the validity of someone else's posts and then go on to post something absurd yourself. I think you come across as a patronising bully. Just my opinion.
  8. I haven't clicked on the link so I don't know who you're quoting but I do know there is a ton of disinformation and shit in what they've written.
  9. No, I can't because I haven't researched into the backgrounds of all those involved in terrorist acts on these shores. There very obviously has been elsewhere though. Paris? What you could do yourself though with about 10 minutes of research is produce a long list of murdered people who are dead thanks to the Schengen Agreement. You went too far and made my point for me. You answered your own smart alec question with your own smart alec answer.
  10. Can you think of any or of any extreme views that might have been encouraged or incited by someone not from these islands?
  11. You don't report that it was a joke he made. Granted not a particularly funny one and likely a bit insulting to the Irish. But it was a joke.
  12. They are two separate issues that cross over. To say imply that they are entirely separate is naive and dangerous. If you think that an open-door immigration policy doesn't increase the likelihood of a terrorist coming this country to commit terrorist acts or to incite others to do so or to preach extreme views and radicalise others then by definition you are wrong.
  13. Just to be clear - by "these islands" you do include the Republic of Ireland?
  14. I answered your question with a question because you have been somewhat childish with some of your responses rather than addressing my points. Do I accept that immigration brings an economic net-positive to the UK? My honest answer is probably but I don't know. There are far too many variables that you don't hear about that we should do. Does the industrial output of the immigration population outweigh the cost of associated health care, wear and tear of infrastructure, costs to the criminal justice system, increased costs of housing, benefits, money being sent abroad (ie leaving the UK to the benefit of another nation), costs to UK workers whose wages get driven down..? I don't know if the answer is yes to a net-positive. However, I think some things are more important than money so even if the answer is yes I would sacrifice it to have a more manageable population size. That doesn't mean kicking everyone out, before you come back with that one. It means taking in only the people we need to benefit us economically rather than your policy of the more the merrier and to hell with the consequences so long as we're making some money.
  15. There is so much wrong with this post that I'd have to spend too long a time picking it apart.
  16. By the way, your repeated reference to how economically beneficial immigration is, despite the massive social problems that it brings for large parts of the country and how it affects millions, makes you sound a lot more tory than you would like people to think you are. Do you perhaps run a company that exploits cheap foreign workers at the expense of indigenous workers whose wages get driven down? Be a bit hypocritical if you did given your support for workers' rights...
  17. Do you accept the stance that uncontrolled immigration with an open-door policy is very bad and dangerous?
  18. Except if they were an immigrant then it is hugely relevant. You seem to have a very nonchalant attitude towards the issue of international terrorism. There are plenty of people in Paris who would disagree with you.
  19. Okay, to say there will be mass repatriations is simply scaremongering. All parties who argue for exit have said that no-one who is living here now who came from an EU country will be told to leave. That is only fair, reasonable, decent and human. Exactly the same would apply to UK nationals living elsewhere in the EU. Yes, some would be migrants to the UK would be blocked from coming here but that is the whole point of having control of your borders. You decide who can come in. If they would be good for the country then they get let in. If they won't be then they don't. Why is that a bad policy? Your point about workers' rights I take to a certain extent because I fully wholeheartedly support workers' rights. I also agree the tories would likely want to see a lot of them removed because some tories are cunts. If you see that happening then vote Labour who will undoubtedly restore them (I presume that's what most people on this forum believe because it's only ever the tories who are accused of this) I do not know how much the UK would need to pay to access the single market. I very much doubt it would be anywhere near to the figure you imply (Euro 357.7m x 12). We are a powerful and rich country who import more from the EU than we export to them. They NEED our trade. I can just hear all those businesses in EUland who depend on us to buy their products and the millions of their workers saying "Go on EU, fuck over the UK for leaving. Who gives a shit if it means they don't buy from us any more and we lose our jobs." Not going to happen. As for your worry about it being a bureaucratic nightmare - well, diddums. We would survive the couple of years of hard talk and negotiation that would follow the 'No' vote. And no-one but no-one is suggesting cutting off economic ties and those that suggest we would be doing so are lying bastards. And how can we ignore the 'renegotiation'? According to Dave it is a game changer and reforms the EU. His successful securing of this deal is why he wants us to vote for it. How can we ignore it - it is his first argument for us to stay. See my point above about how no-one will be forced to leave their homes wherever they have chosen to make them. Our pensioners abroad still cost us money, by the way. Who do you think pays their pensions? It is not the government of where they are living - it is the UK government. Clear the spare room? Piss poor comment to make about my argument and frankly beneath you. How many kids would you like to put in this spare room? How many will be in there before they start fighting and it gets unhealthy? Yup, that's almost certainly true. It's however definitely true that the rapists and terrorists can walk in unchecked. How many they are in number is pretty irrelevant if your family happen to be walking past one when he pulls out his assault rifle.
  20. Why should I or any UK voter give a shit about Spain? Nice people but their politics and policies are their own business. If they don't want UK people living there I honestly couldn't give a shit. The argument about services and housing are massive, hence why we're having this whole national debate. To say they're not good arguments ranks you alongside those who used to say and indeed often still say that to want to debate immigration means you're racist. You casually dismiss what is a massive problem for millions of people in this country. To blame the struggle for those services on lack of investment while ignoring soaring population growth is ridiculous. As is using the phrases "running our own affairs" and "staying in the EU" in the same sentence.
  21. There are several factors that make me want out. Before that I have some observations about some of the 'In' argument. Dave's deal is utter bollocks. It is beyond trivial and in no way delivers the 'fundamental EU reform' he said he was going to demand. Not even close. Anyone using this 'deal' as a form of persuasion for us to vote to stay takes their audience for complete fools. The 'leap in the dark' argument - when did we become a nation of utter cowards? We had over half a millennia of powerful history before we joined the EU. I'll tell you what's in the 'dark' - a continuation of our proud history of being a trading nation being able to make our own trade deals without having to ask 20-odd other prime ministers if it's okay with them and a continuation of our trade with those left in the EU because to do otherwise would be catastrophic for all. We'll regain control of our borders while continuing to enjoy full intelligence co-operation with other nations crime agencies for the safety and security of all. Only a couple of weeks ago Dave did not 'rule anything out', clearly including taking a leap in the dark. He wasn't scared of it then but after his flimsy meaningless deal it now suddenly scares him. Why? Unless he was bullshitting us all along. Why leave? Finally getting shot of the Common Agricultural/Fisheries Policies, the second of which decimated our fishing industry while other nations' fishermen help themselves to the fish in our waters. No more dumping already dead fish overboard because they are the wrong catch. The EU has no concept of democracy. Referendum, Sir? Oh dear, wrong answer. Try again, Sir? Corrupt accounts. Permanently. We can't stop any EU citizen from coming here. It's an open door. Hence the fucking queues at the hospitals, the GP surgeries, the schools, why some people have become victims of crime at the hands of criminals who shouldn't be here and why the house I am trying to buy is £100,000 more expensive than what the last owner paid for it 5 years ago. The £350m we spend at the EU every week could be all spent here rather than a massive chunk of it being spent elsewhere in the EU. If we like the look of an EU law or regulation we can pass our own version of it to suit ourselves and not to suit people outside of this country. If you like the EU working regulations and want to keep them then, fine. Vote for a UK party that likes them too. Clearly a lot of people think that party is Labour. Fine, Vote Labour. At least it will be the policy of the UK government and not the unelected EU Commission.
  22. They couldn't have conceded a single substantial thing without treaty change which was never going to happen. This 'negotiation' has been a false promise all along. I don't see how you think I've answered my own "Says who??" question. If we vote to leave then negotiation will REALLY begin because our leaving will fundamentally have forced change on the EU. I don't for one second think that the manufacturers of EU land will want to see any kind of trade disagreements or trade war with the UK because we buy far more from them than they buy from us. It would be a political and economic catastrophe for France or Germany to try and punish the UK. They absolutely need our trade and that gives us a very strong hand indeed. One of the driving forces of the Leave campaign is that we can't effectively control who comes here from the EU. We would have an opportunity to change this by our exit. What leverage would the EU have over us to force us to accept more migrants? which was your point I was questioning.
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