Rodgers

[Sut]

As a club we are not currently strong enough to set the press agenda like a Man Utd can. We have to play the game. The attacks on suarez today have been ridiculous when you consider what Bale and Van Persie were up to also. The club may have wanted to wait and see what the reaction was like prior to having to go on yet another defensive campaign.

 

I get the feeling that's the phrase that would suit the owners above the Shankly Gates. Ace procrastinators.

[JohnnyH]

I get the feeling that's the phrase that would suit the owners above the Shankly Gates. Ace procrastinators.

 

Yeah, they certainly took a “wait and see” approach when buying the club, and sacking Hodgson after 2 months, and Dalglish after a season, and splurging a £110m on players that clearly hadn’t been scouted properly…..

 

It annoys me that I seem to come across as an apologists and big supporter of the owners when I am very much in the camp of “wait and see” myself on what they do. In fact, when I commented on this very website a few months into their tenure that I wasn’t going for all the “saviours” bullshit and was going to let actions define my view, I was slaughtered on here for it. Now though, it seems that any little issue that can be lumped on to them, or any little slag we can make of them, is pounced on. The vast majority (including myself) were very angry back in June that they didn’t take a “wait and see” approach on Dalglish; now we are accusing them of that very thing. It’s just getting ridiculous now.

 

The stadium plan is going to be the single biggest decision that is taken on the medium and long term future of this club. There is clearly work going on in the background and if it takes another year to get the correct cost structure, finance deal, and actual stadium plan in place, then that’s absolutely fine. Sorry to TP, as I don't mean to seem harsh on a poster I very much respect and like, but the idea that they are “liars” because a time line mentioned 5 months ago has not now happened is utterly ludicrous and just shows a total obduracy in not accepting that decisions and plans of this nature are subject to so many outside forces that delays are almost inevitable.

 

If, in the next year it becomes clear that we have con artists in charge, then we’ll have to deal with that also. But this 'attack first and think later' strategy by our fans is getting boring now. I think the H&G fight went to too many people’s heads and they just seem to want to keep on attacking. I’m sick of the innuendo and little digs at everyone involved with the non-playing side of the club. It poisoned the last season of the Benitez era and lead us to the most fucked up managerial decision this club had ever even dreamed of that will take years to correct. Now we seem to be at it again with the owners. We are quickly becoming just another club, and I feel the vast majority of this change is coming from the terraces.

[Whelan]

Yeah, they certainly took a “wait and see” approach when buying the club, and sacking Hodgson after 2 months, and Dalglish after a season, and splurging a £110m on players that clearly hadn’t been scouted properly…..

 

It annoys me that I seem to come across as an apologists and big supporter of the owners when I am very much in the camp of “wait and see” myself on what they do. In fact, when I commented on this very website a few months into their tenure that I wasn’t going for all the “saviours” bullshit and was going to let actions define my view, I was slaughtered on here for it. Now though, it seems that any little issue that can be lumped on to them, or any little slag we can make of them, is pounced on. The vast majority (including myself) were very angry back in June that they didn’t take a “wait and see” approach on Dalglish; now we are accusing them of that very thing. It’s just getting ridiculous now.

 

The stadium plan is going to be the single biggest decision that is taken on the medium and long term future of this club. There is clearly work going on in the background and if it takes another year to get the correct cost structure, finance deal, and actual stadium plan in place, then that’s absolutely fine. Sorry to TP, as I don't mean to seem harsh on a poster I very much respect and like, but the idea that they are “liars” because a time line mentioned 5 months ago has not now happened is utterly ludicrous and just shows a total obduracy in not accepting that decisions and plans of this nature are subject to so many outside forces that delays are almost inevitable.

 

If, in the next year it becomes clear that we have con artists in charge, then we’ll have to deal with that also. But this 'attack first and think later' strategy by our fans is getting boring now. I think the H&G fight went to too many people’s heads and they just seem to want to keep on attacking. I’m sick of the innuendo and little digs at everyone involved with the non-playing side of the club. It poisoned the last season of the Benitez era and lead us to the most fucked up managerial decision this club had ever even dreamed of that will take years to correct. Now we seem to be at it again with the owners. We are quickly becoming just another club, and I feel the vast majority of this change is coming from the terraces.

 

Well said, really well said.

[DanDanShaw]

It's annoying because the nation had actually started to side with us on the Suarez debate. What's more annoying is this is probably Suarez' first actual dive. I mean dive not "going down easy" which contrary to public opinion isn't a dive.

[Major Tom]

Well said, really well said.

 

Agreed.

 

One issue with his observation that the Hodgson appointment will take 'years to correct'. That simply isn't true. The embarrassment may never go away, mind.

 

The rest is bang on.

[xerxes]

It annoys me that I seem to come across as an apologists and big supporter of the owners when I am very much in the camp of “wait and see” myself on what they do.

 

A good post in full, Johnny, much of which I agree with.

 

FSG saved us from almost certain Administration and bought us to make a profit. Those are the cold facts.

 

Given the above, I agree that some of the criticism of them is unfair. However, although they have not misled at all, I do think that criticism of many aspects of their administration juxtaposed against what they could have done is justified.

 

I don’t think that “the vast majority were very angry” when Dalglish was sacked. No protests, barely a murmur from the stands. Sad to see it end like that of course.

 

On the stadium the situation is pretty clear. FSG say they want to redevelop, but are not prepared to pay to buy the land they need, nor have they even prepared a consultation document with an indicative plan or plans. They have consent for a new stadium- but are not prepared to fund it.

 

I agree that they are not liars. They are however wholly inexperienced at running a football club, and it shows. Whether we should be a training ground for green owners is another question.

[JohnnyH]

It's annoying because the nation had actually started to side with us on the Suarez debate. What's more annoying is this is probably Suarez' first actual dive. I mean dive not "going down easy" which contrary to public opinion isn't a dive.

 

No they hadn’t. Not in the slightest. Everyone knew it was a clear pen against Norwich but outside of Liverpool fans, everyone had a little laugh at such a poor refereeing decision and then moved on. The opinion that Suarez was a cheat, a racist and generally hated by all football fans outside of the red half of Merseyside had not changed one iota.

[Gym Beglin]

I feel sorry for Rodgers because he was hired to manage the team, not fend off the FA, wanker referees with vendettas, and every footballing journalist in the World who want to put the boot in on us.

 

It's siege mentality time, and you'd think he knows a thing or two about that having worked with Mourinho?

 

The way to hit back at all these gobshites who detest us is to start winning games, a lot of them. That's the bottom line, that's what will win the argument. It's time for us to put an XI out on the field who all pull in the same direction, fight for every ball, and who have a massive determination to take all 3 points every game. For me, Shelvey is integral to that.

 

I'd actually drop Sahin and Gerrard for the next game. Bad performances, poor performances, have to have a consequence. Especially when you have the number of central midfielders we have. Otherwise, what's the point in having all these players?

 

Allen, Shelvey and Suso, or Allen, Henderson and Shelvey.

 

Fair is fair, and the minute you dont follow through on the promise of people getting in the team on merit, that's when the whole thing crumbles.

Same goes for Suarez and even Sterling. If you don't produce at the end of it then there has to be an evaluation of that.

 

Look at Ferguson with De Gea. Or Anderson. Or Hernandez. Or Nani. Or Valencia. Or even Rooney. None of them get in the team on merit, and if he has the options then he will drop any of them to teach them that they cannot be complacent about first team football at this level.

 

Gerrard is one of the most complacent players around, considering his talent. How often do you see a top performance from him? Look at the likes of Messi, or Ronaldo, or Xavi, or Ibrahimovic, or Aguero, or Toure, ... we're talking top class performances at a level of about 7 out of 10 games. And in the cases of the first two probably more like 8 or 9 out of 10.

 

If you get the rotation right, then you can figure out the games where Gerrard likely won't have a big impact, and bring in someone else who might fit the bill. Just because Gerrard is fit should not automatically mean he starts a game. If anything, I think teams would be more fearful seeing his name on the subs list. Because he can come on and play in a few different positions, and so you can't even react properly to him coming on until you work out where he's playing. Whereas if he;s on the starting list then you've got an hour to prepare.

 

Meh, what do I know. I've won nothing, Liverpool haven't won a title in 22 years, it's obvious we're doing it right and I'm a twat.

[silverlining]

I feel sorry for Rodgers because he was hired to manage the team, not fend off the FA, wanker referees with vendettas, and every footballing journalist in the World who want to put the boot in on us.

 

It's siege mentality time, and you'd think he knows a thing or two about that having worked with Mourinho?

 

The way to hit back at all these gobshites who detest us is to start winning games, a lot of them. That's the bottom line, that's what will win the argument. It's time for us to put an XI out on the field who all pull in the same direction, fight for every ball, and who have a massive determination to take all 3 points every game. For me, Shelvey is integral to that.

 

I'd actually drop Sahin and Gerrard for the next game. Bad performances, poor performances, have to have a consequence. Especially when you have the number of central midfielders we have. Otherwise, what's the point in having all these players?

 

Allen, Shelvey and Suso, or Allen, Henderson and Shelvey.

 

Fair is fair, and the minute you dont follow through on the promise of people getting in the team on merit, that's when the whole thing crumbles.

Same goes for Suarez and even Sterling. If you don't produce at the end of it then there has to be an evaluation of that.

 

Look at Ferguson with De Gea. Or Anderson. Or Hernandez. Or Nani. Or Valencia. Or even Rooney. None of them get in the team on merit, and if he has the options then he will drop any of them to teach them that they cannot be complacent about first team football at this level.

 

Gerrard is one of the most complacent players around, considering his talent. How often do you see a top performance from him? Look at the likes of Messi, or Ronaldo, or Xavi, or Ibrahimovic, or Aguero, or Toure, ... we're talking top class performances at a level of about 7 out of 10 games. And in the cases of the first two probably more like 8 or 9 out of 10.

 

If you get the rotation right, then you can figure out the games where Gerrard likely won't have a big impact, and bring in someone else who might fit the bill. Just because Gerrard is fit should not automatically mean he starts a game. If anything, I think teams would be more fearful seeing his name on the subs list. Because he can come on and play in a few different positions, and so you can't even react properly to him coming on until you work out where he's playing. Whereas if he;s on the starting list then you've got an hour to prepare.

 

Meh, what do I know. I've won nothing, Liverpool haven't won a title in 22 years, it's obvious we're doing it right and I'm a twat.

 

Yep

[Bjornebye]

No they hadn’t. Not in the slightest. Everyone knew it was a clear pen against Norwich but outside of Liverpool fans, everyone had a little laugh at such a poor refereeing decision and then moved on. The opinion that Suarez was a cheat, a racist and generally hated by all football fans outside of the red half of Merseyside had not changed one iota.

 

it would be a lot different if he was shite

[coops_lfc]

Technology these days, Brendan could easily view every contentious decision during his walk from the dressing room to the press room. "I didn't see it" is no excuse these days and the press know that. That's why Wenger has a hard time over it.

[Code]

It happened during the first half, in between the first half and the second half we have the break.

 

If it was as serious as it looked there is no way Rodgders was not aware of it and if he actually was I would ask serious questions about what is going on in our dressing room.

[dave u]

Behave Frode. He's trying to win a game, he's got 15 minutes to make any tactical changes and points he needs to get across to the players. We may also have had a couple of players getting treatment for knocks they've picked up, and there's all kinds of shit going on in a dressing room at half time.

 

You really want him to waste time looking at replays of a stamp on one of his players? He cant do anything about that, it happened and the ref did nothing. Why would he waste his time looking at replays of it at half time?

 

Madness.

[piscinin]

What could we seriously have done that would have made the press change their positions and write more balanced articles on Suarez? Do you think anything we said would have stopped the dive being the headlines?

 

The press are never going to write a balanced article. That doesn't mean you can't get them to write about something else.

 

Mourinho would have eye-gouged someone for the headlines. Ferguson wouldn't have let it get to this point, he'd have been pushing the 'most fouled player in the league needs protection angle' relentlessly and he'd provide enough volume that the easy serial diver piece couldn't be written. After the original fergie slur Redknapp may have said something like Suarez only stumbles around like that after having a go on fergie's special "water" bottle (w/cheeky chappy grin).

 

Fact is there are lots of things you can do. We, by and large, have done way too little, way too late. We have given the press and anyone with a point to score a free hand in framing the perception of Suarez.

[The Guest]

I feel sorry for Rodgers because he was hired to manage the team, not fend off the FA, wanker referees with vendettas, and every footballing journalist in the World who want to put the boot in on us.

 

It's siege mentality time, and you'd think he knows a thing or two about that having worked with Mourinho?

 

The way to hit back at all these gobshites who detest us is to start winning games, a lot of them. That's the bottom line, that's what will win the argument. It's time for us to put an XI out on the field who all pull in the same direction, fight for every ball, and who have a massive determination to take all 3 points every game. For me, Shelvey is integral to that.

 

I'd actually drop Sahin and Gerrard for the next game. Bad performances, poor performances, have to have a consequence. Especially when you have the number of central midfielders we have. Otherwise, what's the point in having all these players?

 

Allen, Shelvey and Suso, or Allen, Henderson and Shelvey.

 

Fair is fair, and the minute you dont follow through on the promise of people getting in the team on merit, that's when the whole thing crumbles.

Same goes for Suarez and even Sterling. If you don't produce at the end of it then there has to be an evaluation of that.

 

Look at Ferguson with De Gea. Or Anderson. Or Hernandez. Or Nani. Or Valencia. Or even Rooney. None of them get in the team on merit, and if he has the options then he will drop any of them to teach them that they cannot be complacent about first team football at this level.

 

Gerrard is one of the most complacent players around, considering his talent. How often do you see a top performance from him? Look at the likes of Messi, or Ronaldo, or Xavi, or Ibrahimovic, or Aguero, or Toure, ... we're talking top class performances at a level of about 7 out of 10 games. And in the cases of the first two probably more like 8 or 9 out of 10.

 

If you get the rotation right, then you can figure out the games where Gerrard likely won't have a big impact, and bring in someone else who might fit the bill. Just because Gerrard is fit should not automatically mean he starts a game. If anything, I think teams would be more fearful seeing his name on the subs list. Because he can come on and play in a few different positions, and so you can't even react properly to him coming on until you work out where he's playing. Whereas if he;s on the starting list then you've got an hour to prepare.

 

Meh, what do I know. I've won nothing, Liverpool haven't won a title in 22 years, it's obvious we're doing it right and I'm a twat.

 

So much nonsense.

 

Gerrard isn't playing in a side anywhere near the same standard as any of those players mentioned. Do you think they could put in the same performances that consistently in this Liverpool team? Unfortunately he isn't the same standard as those players mentioned any more either yet that's the bar people measure him against. He is, however, a fucking country mile better than any suggested replacement. Until there is a player the same standard as him or higher how can we consider dropping him?

 

How can you pick out Gerrard and say he is the one at fault because he isn't producing the game winning goals any more when no other cunt has been doing either. Replacing him with Henderson is possibly the biggest joke I have ever heard along with the opposition somehow fearing this decision and not being able to prepare.

 

Anyone that thinks Gerrard shouldn't be in the team when fit even when not in form is a fucking idiot in my eyes and hasn't got a clue what they are on about. It's exactly the same reason Reina can't get dropped. It's a pointless exercise which in the end puts pressure on the players that aren't as good as Gerrard and demotivates and alienates Gerrard.

[Code]

Not what I'm saying Dave.

 

I dont want Rodgers to look at replays of what happend in the first half, but if Huth's stamp was serious enough for us to make a deal out of it then its something that would be mentioned during half time and if not Rodgers was made directly aware of it by Suarez, then others who were in the position to tell Rodgers certainly would be and should tell him.

 

Its not like the Anfield dressing rooms are massive either so this should have been picked up and if it was not I would question why not.

 

Like you said a lot of things goes on in the dressing room at half time and the mentioning of this episode would be one of them.

[bossy]

Not what I'm saying Dave.

 

I dont want Rodgers to look at replays of what happend in the first half' date=' but if Huth's stamp was serious enough for us to make a deal out of it then its something that would be mentioned during half time and if not Rodgers was made directly aware of it by Suarez, then others who were in the position to tell Rodgers certainly would be and should tell him.

 

Its not like the Anfield dressing rooms are massive either so this should have been picked up and if it was not I would question why not.

 

Like you said a lot of things goes on in the dressing room at half time and the mentioning of this episode would be one of them.[/quote']

 

And Rodgers would probably have said that he'd deal with after the game wouldn't he?

[Code]

And Rodgers would probably have said that he'd deal with after the game wouldn't he?

 

He should have asked Mason for an explanation while walking out for the second half and he should have addressed it in his interview directly after the match.

[Whelan]

No they hadn’t. Not in the slightest. Everyone knew it was a clear pen against Norwich but outside of Liverpool fans, everyone had a little laugh at such a poor refereeing decision and then moved on. The opinion that Suarez was a cheat, a racist and generally hated by all football fans outside of the red half of Merseyside had not changed one iota.

 

Three quarters Johnny, red three quarters of Merseyside!

[bossy]

 

He should have asked Mason for an explanation while walking out for the second half and he should have addressed it in his interview directly after the match.

 

Sigh, ok.

[Gym Beglin]

So much nonsense.

 

Gerrard isn't playing in a side anywhere near the same standard as any of those players mentioned. Do you think they could put in the same performances that consistently in this Liverpool team? Unfortunately he isn't the same standard as those players mentioned any more either yet that's the bar people measure him against. He is, however, a fucking country mile better than any suggested replacement. Until there is a player the same standard as him or higher how can we consider dropping him?

 

How can you pick out Gerrard and say he is the one at fault because he isn't producing the game winning goals any more when no other cunt has been doing either. Replacing him with Henderson is possibly the biggest joke I have ever heard along with the opposition somehow fearing this decision and not being able to prepare.

 

Anyone that thinks Gerrard shouldn't be in the team when fit even when not in form is a fucking idiot in my eyes and hasn't got a clue what they are on about. It's exactly the same reason Reina can't get dropped. It's a pointless exercise which in the end puts pressure on the players that aren't as good as Gerrard and demotivates and alienates Gerrard.

 

 

We're supposed to be implementing a system where you don't need superstars, you just need function. IE, the striker is supposed to score goals and be in goalscoring positions, like when that ball trickled across the Stoke goal-line and Suarez stood there and watched it. But nevermind that, look at the nutmegs he can do when 30 yards from goal....

 

Same with Gerrard, get the fucking basics right, find the man with a pass. That's all we're asking him to do, move the ball on accurately. No, he gives away possession endlessly and then try a couple of 25 yard blockbuster efforts to try and make up for it.

 

Basics, how about getting the corners in the box?

Basics, not kicking the ball out to an attacker when you're a goalie.

Basics. Would everyone just like to do the fucking basics for once, and THEN see how far short we are of 'quality'?

 

Rodgers is trying to build a choir, but insists on sticking in a couple of rockstars.

 

I find that the rest of the team, for the most part, is functioning quite well. Allen, sound. Sahin, mostly sound. Skrtel and Agger, sound. Johnson, sound. Sterling, sound. Suso, sound. And then there is Borini, not sound, who doesn't get a run in the middle to accomodate Suarez, not sound, and we then disrupt Sterling and Assaidi to accomodate one of them out wide or something, it's fucking depressing. Does nobody fancy just going back to basics with the front 3, ie, two fucking wingers and a bloke in the middle who knows how to attack space? Sterling and Assaidi, and then Borini or even Morgan in the middle. No wankjabbery, no triangles, just get the wide men to beat a man and put a fucking ball in.

 

And then a couple of late runners from midfield? Shelvey and Sahin anyone? Young, fit, hungry to score goals, can get back in a hurry. Or Gerrard, who may or may not keep up with play, but he'll probably score a penalty if we get one.

 

You've got to stop thinking about these players by their names, reputation, and history, and instead treat them as Player A, Player B etc. And then decide where the problem in the current team is. Because 10 years ago Steven Gerrard was whipping balls into El Hadj Diouf, and Rafa's Valencia just embarassed us at Anfield. And even by then, Gerrard had made his debut 4 years before that and got 13 England caps. It's time to stop being surprised when people suggest that Gerrard is droppable for a game here and there, it's childish to keep stamping your feet and demanding everything be the same as it was, because it's fucking not, he's 32 and he's had injuries, a LOT of injuries, so let's all just take a week or two to finally accept that and then muster back here and discuss the future.

[silverlining]

Unfunnnneeeeeeee bollocks on about Gerrard and Suarez but seems incapable of recognising that, if we take them out of the side, we have a team that has less 10 Premiership goals between them. Ever. And about the same amount of assists.

[Dr. J]

Rodgers hasn't got any weight - with the players, the press, the FA, with fuck all.

 

He made a point of giving Adam a big hug when he came off - who the fuck does that for an opposing player - especially one who had just spent the better part of an hour kicking the bejeesus out of Joe Allen?

 

The Pulis came over when the game ended and gave him a nice, patronizing hug, too, just before ripping into our most important player at the post-game.

 

He started Johnson after an absolute shite performance against the Italians... ah, what' the point?

 

He may know his football and may come good in the end, but right now he's being played like a fish.

 

Oh, and Steven Gerrard for England, please.

[xerxes]

We're supposed to be implementing a system where you don't need superstars, you just need function. IE, the striker is supposed to score goals and be in goalscoring positions, like when that ball trickled across the Stoke goal-line and Suarez stood there and watched it. But nevermind that, look at the nutmegs he can do when 30 yards from goal....

 

Same with Gerrard, get the fucking basics right, find the man with a pass. That's all we're asking him to do, move the ball on accurately. No, he gives away possession endlessly and then try a couple of 25 yard blockbuster efforts to try and make up for it.

 

Basics, how about getting the corners in the box?

Basics, not kicking the ball out to an attacker when you're a goalie.

Basics. Would everyone just like to do the fucking basics for once, and THEN see how far short we are of 'quality'?

 

Although I do not subscribe to dropping Gerrard and Suarez, there is a lot of sense in the above, funneeeee.

 

Kenny lost his way when he, and the players, started to convince themelves that results were down to bad luck. I agree that you make your own luck and believeing that you individually can make a difference is the essence of team sport.

[Gym Beglin]

But that's only if we played with 9 men, capiche?

We'd obviously have whatever goals, if any, came from the two people replacing them. And, perhaps, other people may have scored more goals as the system actually worked a little 'better'. And, furthermore, perhaps we'd have conceded less, and so needed to only score once per game?

 

How on earth did Chelsea cope this season after losing Drogba and Meireles from last season? That's 19 goals they lost...

And they loaned out Lukaku! And loaned out Essien! And Sturridge hardly plays! And they sold Kalou! And Anelka left last January! And Malouda hasn't played a game this season at all!