Violence Against Burglars

[Kevin D]

[RoboRiise]

Since this has been bumped:

 

1. "Oh it's only stuff, you can just replace anything that they take".  What a load of fucking bollocks.  How would I replace my dad's rings and watches which I've had since he died in 1996 for example, just go buy some lookalike shit from H Samuel?

 

2. Generally, I agree that there's a distinction between defending your property, family and posessions and chasing someone down the street with murder in mind but I have to admit I have fuck all sympathy for any burglar who is chased, they are scum.  Pure fucking scum.  I honestly wouldn't give a shit if someone got in their car and mowed the cunt down, burglars can avoid any chance of that ever happening to them by the simple expedient of not being a thieving sack of shit.  It's not difficult really is it?

 

Remember that pikey kid who got shotgunned by the guy who had had about 20 attempted robberies at his house in the middle of nowhere?  I pissed myself laughing when I read about that.  Does that make me a bad person?  Like I give a fuck.

 

That 'oh hey man it's just posessions' shite isn't the point (and remember a lot of people can't afford insurance these days so they can't just replace the things they have lost anyway) the issue is what fucking right does someone think they have to come into my house and help themself to my stuff?   What are we calling that now, aggressive charity?

 

The closest I've come to being on the wrong end of it was waking up one night and hearing a noise outside the window (my bedroom is over the porch) - get up and peep through the curtains and there's some scall in a black tracky outside trying to get the window open.  We both looked as startled as each other for a second, then I just lost my shit completely and started screaming 'yeah? come on you fucking cunt come in' at him.

 

As is often the case in these scenarios I was bollock naked which may have been what made his mind up - he jumped off the porch and I was halfway down the stairs before I came to my senses.  If I'd woke up to find him in the room I'd have put him through the fucking window or down the stairs, or at least given it my best shot - I simply wouldn't have been able to apply enough rational though to be worrying about the consequences at that time.  Nothing to do with protecting family or anything because I was alone in the house, everything to do with hating pieces of shit who think they can just go through life taking what they want from other people.

 

As for the tales about the cops and the black foster kid and the earlier one about the dad who shot his adopted son, sorry but all I'm taking from those is that some people are mongs.  It's hardly news.

[Remmie]

That's a terrible story with the young man who was fostered. Some rotten apples in the police force...

 

But in the interests of balance - our neighbor is a police officer. He's a top fella and commands a lot of respect. He is African American, about 6 foot 5, fit as a fiddle, and has muscles on his muscles. When he rides on his lawnmower to cut the grass he has a sneaky cigar from time to time. His dad was a Minister and our kids get on the same bus to school and play together. They had a party for the neighbors and he got the beers in and made some fantastic food on the bbq. 

I think someone has a crush on his neighbour.

 

As for the original post, couldn't agree with Angry of Tuebrook more. He's bang on about people who advocating violence against burglars never using facts, it's always using anecdotes and emotions as an argument, which is frankly arguing like a woman. I have never heard of a case of a burglar breaking in and attacking a family, it just doesn't happen. I am sure someone can dig out the odd anecdote of it happening once or twice but I reckon it would have only been in response to an aggressive home owner. 

 

If anyone else is in any doubt about what the correct course of action is, just realise this: If you think violence against burglars is sound, you agree with the Daily Mail.

[RoboRiise]

I think someone has a crush on his neighbour.

 

As for the original post, couldn't agree with Angry of Tuebrook more. He's bang on about people who advocating violence against burglars never using facts, it's always using anecdotes and emotions as an argument, which is frankly arguing like a woman. I have never heard of a case of a burglar breaking in and attacking a family, it just doesn't happen. I am sure someone can dig out the odd anecdote of it happening once or twice but I reckon it would have only been in response to an aggressive home owner. 

 

If anyone else is in any doubt about what the correct course of action is, just realise this: If you think violence against burglars is sound, you agree with the Daily Mail.

 

With respect and love Remmie, that is complete bollocks.  'In response to an agressive homeowner', so what, I'm supposed to be cool with a nice quiet burglar who is just minding his own business in my house stealing the shit that I work 40 hours a week to pay for?  Seriously?  Wow maybe I should just leave my fucking telly on the street and save them the hassle of having to break in.

[Remmie]

Yes, that's what I've said. In fact do you even need me for this argument?

[RoboRiise]

Yes, that's what I've said. In fact do you even need me for this argument?

 

Depends mate.  If you feel there is some middle ground between what you wrote and what I wrote, perhaps highlight it for me in the form of a post?

 

What are you suggesting someone does in that scenario - call out for them to get out of your house?  OK that's reasonable - what if they don't?  What if they are in the same room as you, I mean I don't know about you but if I wake up to find a stranger has forcibly entered my property I'm going to be feeling pretty threatened and disinclined to trust in their good nature, since their very presense in my house suggests that would be foolish in the extreme.  Perhaps I'm just a big shithouse and I need to man up but there you go.

 

I hate thieves.  I hate people who take from other people.  It is morally repulsive behaviour.  I've never considered that to be a particularly extreme view.  I can't conceive why I would be expected to just sit there and take it as long as I'm not being directly threatened physically and I don't think it's reasonable to expect the wronged party in the scenario to take a chance on the fact that the other party will not attack them.

 

For clarity, I don't apply this line of thinking to life in general as I hope you realise - you won't see me advocating giving someone a smack in a pub because I thought they might give me one if I didn't and so on; in general I don't find violence to be an acceptable way to resolve anything other than as an absolute last resort.  I just can't grasp why I should be expected to tolerate burglars as long as they aren't directly threatening me, which is the only way I can interpret what you wrote.

 

It's 1.21am and I'm tired so perhaps I'm missing something very obvious but I'm fucked if I can think what it is.

 

Anyhoo off to bed, I will see what develops tomorrow.

[Remmie]

I think there is a reasonable amount of force and virtually everything I've read has involved pounding people with bats, knuckle dusters, guns and such like. Just to clarify I have been involved in a robbery at uni where we were in the TV room and some smackhead stole some ornamental swords. Any of us including my mates' girlfriends could have gone for a piss while he was upstairs weilding swords, so I can understand the fear involved and can understand wanting to defend yourself. But guess what any of us would have done - fucking leg it! If we were backed into a corner with a dude with swords then yeah using weapons is OK. Trying to incapacitate someone with reasonable force is OK. Battering someone until they unconscious and continuing to lump them, in my view is not acceptable.

[Remmie]

RR, sorry if I was flippant and thanks for your measured response.

[General Dryness]

Out of rep, but if I had any you'd both get some for dealing with disagreement in an affable manner. Fair play to you both.

 

If I found either of you in my garden there'd be hell to pay, mind.

[Paulie Dangerously]

Weirdly as I was boiling the kettle for the 5th time to make baby formula last night I had a day dream about using it as a weapon should someone take Mischief night too far and try and invade my garden or house.

 

Then this was bumped. Coincidence or conspiracy?

[Teasmaid]

I think someone has a crush on his neighbour.

 

As for the original post, couldn't agree with Angry of Tuebrook more. He's bang on about people who advocating violence against burglars never using facts, it's always using anecdotes and emotions as an argument, which is frankly arguing like a woman. I have never heard of a case of a burglar breaking in and attacking a family, it just doesn't happen. I am sure someone can dig out the odd anecdote of it happening once or twice but I reckon it would have only been in response to an aggressive home owner.

 

If anyone else is in any doubt about what the correct course of action is, just realise this: If you think violence against burglars is sound, you agree with the Daily Mail.

Zeb, what idyll do you inhabit? Open the Echo any week and there'll be a picture of a poor pensioner who's been beaten to a pulp by a burglar. I'm sure these elderly people weren't aggressive. My brother-in-law's mate was burgled last year. He was alerted by his teenage daughter screaming like a banshee, so he left his bedroom to go to hers, and was jumped and stabbed by 3 burglars on his landing.

 

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/tony-abrahams-stabbed-luton-burglars-2802047

 

It does happen. What about Gerrard's missus, being threatened by burglars that they were going to stab their kids if she didn't hand over the contents of their safe?

 

I don't believe burglars deserve beating up just for being in your home, but I do think you should be able to wield the same levels of self defence in your home as you would on the street. I have chased a burglar down the street naked. My thoughts were 100% about protecting my kids. My possessions didn't cross my mind. If a burglar threatened to kill my kids, I would kill them in the blink of an eye, if I were able. I feel that would be reasonable if their life was in danger. It would be unreasonable if it were just to stop them nicking my iPad.

[xerxes]

The overwhelming majority of housebreaking/ burglaries are committed in houses which are unoccupied at the time. That’s the way the thieves like it. “Hot” burglaries are invariably committed by the desperate. They are as frightened of disturbing the householder as the householder is of discovering them.

 

Instances where a thief or thieves deliberately target an occupied house with the intention of overwhelming the owner are rare.

 

Several years ago I was the victim of a hot burglary, 3am, with wife and three children asleep. We heard the back door being broken down. How many are there? How big are they? Are they armed? What do they want? All race through your mind. You assume the worst. So what do you do? You don’t want him/her,them upstairs. So I made a hell of a racket, shouted my boys names and that I had called the police…they scarpered with just my wife’s handbag.

 

The problem with confronting unknown intruders is that you do not know the answers to the above questions, but the intruder is prepared, knows what weapons he has, and how handy he is, even if he does not know what he is up against. It is a big advantage still. But he does not want to be caught and entered to steal, not fight, so ironically if you give them a chance to escape, invariably they will take it.

 

Having an intruder in your house at night, with you unprepared, is incredibly disorientating, and frightening. Although Tony Martin, the farmer who shot dead a burglar at his house in 1999, may not be a very nice person, most people will sympathise with a man, on his own finding an unknown number of intruders in his house who has a shotgun to hand defending himself. His conviction for manslaughter was scandalous.

[Sugar Ape]

I think the stats are interesting.

 

 

Household Burglary in the UK – Facts and Figures

 

Burglaries are less common than most people think and violent attacks on people in their homes are extremely rare. This page is not intended to cause unnecessary worry, but rather to acquaint you with some of the key facts and figures on burglary that you may not have seen gathered into one place before.

 

How common is burglary?
• Every 37 seconds a home somewhere in Britain is burgled.
• Every year there are over 1 million burglaries and attempted burglaries.
• 20% of households experience more than one incident a year. 13% are burgled twice and 7% three or more times.
• Between 1981 and 1993 burglaries increased by 137%. There was a decline through the rest of the 1990’s but which has now leveled off and 2002 showed a 5% annual increase. Aggravated burglary (where the occupiers are home at the time) rose 14% in 2002. 

Which houses are targeted?
• In a road, the burglar will choose the property without visible signs of security, such as security lighting or alarm bell boxes, over those with such devices.
• Households are more than twice as likely to be burgled if they’ve been burgled in the previous four years.
• Most burglaries are not pre-planned, they’re committed by opportunist thieves who spot an open door, window, or valuables on display.
• British Crime Survey statistics show that security devices, in particular intruder alarms, “..are very effective in reducing the risk of burglary..” 

Who are the burglars?
• 88% of burglars are males. 6% are committed by a male and a female together and 6% by a lone female.
• The most likely age is 16 to 24 with 16% being of school age.
• Recent changes in trends in domestic burglary and young male unemployment show striking similarities. The fact that drug possession offences rose 9% in 2002 must also be related, coupled with a 1% drop in the detection of drug trafficking.
• Only half of all burglars are strangers. The other half are known by the victim by sight or to speak to or is known well. 

How do they get in?
• In 20% of burglaries they don’t even have to use force – they get in through an open window or unlocked door.
• 70% enter through a door, with almost all the rest through a window.
• A thief can get through any gap larger than a human head. 

What happens in a burglary?
• In a quarter of burglaries someone is at home and aware of what is happening.
• In 20% of cases the victim sees the offender.
• In 27% of cases there are two offenders.
• Violence or threatening behavior is used in 10% of incidents.
• Victims are emotionally affected in over 80% of all burglaries. Types of response in order of those reported most are: anger, shock, fear, loss of confidence or feeling vulnerable, and difficulty sleeping.
• Property is stolen in 40% of incidents. The most popular being cash, jewellery, and DVD/video and stereo equipment. Theft of computer equipment is now twice as common as in 1995.
• Only half of victims had the stolen property insured.
• Clear-up rates for most property crimes are much lower than for crimes against the person with less than 15% of recorded domestic burglary offences detected in 1999/2000.
• In only 9% of cases where something has been stolen is property returned. 

When do burglaries happen?
• Most take place after dark with more in the evening (32%), than during the night (23%).
• 20% take place in the afternoon, 10% in the morning/afternoon.
• 30% occur at the weekend. 

What do I do if I’m burgled?
• Call the Police immediately. If you think the burglar(s) may be still inside your property, don’t go in but make the call on a mobile or from a neighbour’s home. The Police will make a much more rapid response if they're told the perpetrators are still on the property.
• Ask the Police if they want you to start making a list of missing items. BUT: resist the urge to tidy up any mess until after the Police have been and have carried out their work.
• The Police will take details of the crime and issue you with a crime number. You will need this number to make a claim on your home insurance.
• If any credit or debit cards or cheque books have been stolen contact the issuer as soon as possible (most have 24 hour services) to cancel them. Check to see if important documents such as your passport or driving licence have been stolen and inform the relevant authorities.
• If you have an idea who did it and prefer to pass information to the Police anonymously, you can do so via Crimestoppers on            0800 555 111     

 

Sources:
Home Office Police Statistics and British Crime Survey reports.
Burglary of Domestic Dwellings – Findings from the British Crime Survey
British Crime Survey – Crime in England Wales: Quarterly Update
British Crime Survey - Crime in England and Wales

 

 

More here: https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/nature-of-burglary

[Harry Squatter]

When I lived with my parents out house was burgled, they didn't take much but I was fuming as some twats had been into our house and nicked things that weren't theirs. The police gave us the usual "we have a good idea who they are" but obviously nothing came of it.

 

I shared a house with my brother for a few years and the area we lived in was notorious for burglaries and property damage. Four houses in my road, which was a small cul de sac had been ransacked in the space of three months. My brother decides one night to go out and leave the back door wide open but also decided to take the keys. I couldn't even close the door over as the lock on the door was sticking out. He must have been in the garden at some point and done it so the door wouldn't slam shut.

 

There was an empty pub at the back of our house and you would always hear ray boys in there smashing things up. For some reason I decided to get my Samurai sword out the loft and sit on the couch in the back room in total darkness in my undies incase any little twats wanted to nick any of my stuff.

 

No scalls tried to get into the house but my brother absolutely shat himself when he came back from town at 3am and saw me sitting on the couch with a samurai sword when he put the lights on.

[J-V]

As far as i'm concerned, you break into my home and the bets are off, i don't give a fuck what you have, you threaten my family and that's the line and it's been crossed with your presence. i have no idea what your intentions are, you could be there to steal my tv, you could be there to attack my family, but it's the home owners right to escalate to violence in that situation because it's primitive, fuck human rights.

 

Is right.

[Fugitive]

Getting bum burgled is my biggest worry. Apparently, it's a right pain in the arse.

[neko]

move to Canada - we don't even lock our doors.

 

but yes, if i ever found someone in my house, they would need an ambulance to leave.

[Dr Nowt]

move to Canada - we don't even lock our doors.

 

but yes, if i ever found someone in my house, they would need an ambulance to leave.

 

That's a bit tight, neko.  Like a bird showing you her arse then slapping your hand when you go to stroke it.

[Strontium]

There is nothing worse than the sick feeling of coming home to a burgled house.

 

I think there probably is, like.

[Pidge]

Like the sick feeling of having your vote stolen.

[Jairzinho]

Or not having a house.

[halewood pete]

I think there probably is, like.

Just a figure of speech to start off my post .I'm not going to bite.

[Strontium]

Just a figure of speech to start off my post. I'm not going to bite.

 

There's nothing to bite on. It was a lighthearted comment about your exaggeration.

[halewood pete]

There's nothing to bite on. It was a lighthearted comment about your exaggeration.

Ok.enjoy the weekend 

[RoboRiise]

RR, sorry if I was flippant and thanks for your measured response.

 

As you probably noticed, just thinking about the subject gets my back up.  No need to apologise for flippancy mate, it's practically my specialist subject so I can hardly talk...

 

In other news, vicar or McVicar?  This was in the Evening News tonight, talk about topical:

 

 

Church pastor fights off burglar and holds on to him until police arrive

 

A church pastor grappled with a burglar who raided his church and restrained him until police arrived.

 

Philip Dixon, 44, of Briar Hill Court, Salford, had to be looked over in hospital after his tussle with Reverend Raymond Williams of Bethel Apostolic Ark Church, also in Salford.

 

While being examined, the 44-year-old thief grumbled to police: “I do jujitsu, what goes around comes round. I know where he lives - I’ve got mates.”

 

The Rev Raymond Williams was alerted to the break in at the Tetlow Lane premises by the security system at 5.30am and rushed from his nearby home to see Dixon fleeing with items under his arm. After spotting that the rear door of the church was wide open, he ran after Dixon.

 

Alex Leach, prosecuting, told Manchester Crown Court: “The reverend caught the defendant and restrained him, and he dropped an Apple iMac he had stolen on the floor. After a short struggle the reverend was joined by his son and wife, together they dragged the defendant back to the church where police were called. The defendant was arrested and taken to Salford Royal Hospital for injuries apparently sustained as he attempted to escape.”

 

An inspection of the church’s community centre revealed the premises had been ransacked, a projector, equipment and food had been ‘bagged in readiness for removal’, with a total £2,000 of damage and theft.

 

Interviewed by police, Dixon claimed he ‘found’ the iMac and had then been ‘attacked’ by the pastor. The reverend told officers he had been left with a ‘sense of invasion’ which he believed would have a lasting effect on him and his family, while his wife said she suffered sleepless nights and ‘lasting concern for her safety’.

 

Following his arrest, Dixon went on to smash his way into the home of a former friend in Salford while he was at Alder Hey Hospital, Liverpool with his poorly son. Dixon was arrested after police found him sleeping at the property. He went on to admit burglary and criminal damage in connection with both offences, and has now been jailed for 15 months.

 

Kath Pierpoint, defending, said the April 6 burglary happened after Dixon took a ‘large amount of diazepam’.

 

“He didn’t realise it was church premises - he is ashamed of what he’s done”, she added.

 

Judge Michael Henshell, sentencing, told Dixon the reverend ‘has to be commended for his behaviour in detaining you.’

 

http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/church-pastor-fights-burglar-holds-8025220

 

The article in the paper says he chased him over some fair distance and ended up getting him in a headlock and bringing him down.