Hillsborough "The Search For Truth" 10.25pm

[Anubis]

At least now we know what to expect when they pitch up at Anfield.

[Guest San Don]

It is truely unreal as it has entered in practically every country worldwide.

 

It is top 10 in so many countries at the moment.

 

Another thing that has grown beyond belief is the shut down the sun.

 

Theres shops nationwide showing this poster.

 

 

That is truely amazing on both counts! It makes you realise what a monumental day it is. One hopes that rag takes another massive hit.

 

Always the victim being sung at Old Trafford. Inbred cunts.

 

So much for their manager's 'plea' to end the hostility. Absolute twats. Nothing new there about mancs.

[Arl arse]

Always the victim being sung at Old Trafford. Inbred cunts.

 

Don't hate them, just pity them.

 

They are showing their ignorance to the whole world.

 

Rise above it, be better than them.

[Tony Moanero]

Don't hate them, just pity them.

 

This.

[Tony Moanero]

That is truely amazing on both counts! It makes you realise what a monumental day it is. One hopes that rag takes another massive hit.

 

 

 

So much for their manager's 'plea' to end the hostility. Absolute twats. Nothing new there about mancs.

 

We have our bellends too.

[Gonzo]

Always the victim being sung at Old Trafford. Inbred cunts.

 

Let's hope the media show some balls and condemn them tomorrow. We all know what that song really refers to, especially sine it pre-dates the Evra-Suarez incident.

[Tricky]

Myopic, pigheaded, uneducated Yorkshire bigots. Nothing new there then.

 

Did the irony of that statement not jump out of the screen at you when you typed it? Is defining an entire group by the negative character traits of a minority within that group not the very essence of bigotry?

 

It's taken me a couple of days to get posting privileges so I apologise if this is a little late but as a Sheffield Wednesday fan I would like to apologise for the moronic, offensive, ignorant, bigoted comments of some of our fans. I can assure you all they're a tiny minority but by Christ they're vocal!

 

I have been convinced from the very start that the justice campaigners were right in asserting that there had been a cover-up aimed at hiding the culpability of South Yorkshire Police and would like to congratulate (maybe the wrong word given the gravity of the events in question but I cannot think of a better one right now) the families, victims and Liverpool fans in general on being vindicated, albeit 23 years too late. Now we have the truth (though I'm not convinced it is the whole truth, I believe it went right to the top, to Thatcher and her cabinet) next comes justice - I hope those culpable will be brought to account and the victims and their families suitably compensated - though obviously no amount of money can compensate for that kind of loss.

 

I believe that even the idiotic minority within our fanbase will, when given time to reflect, be ashamed of the knee jerk, defensive reaction seen in some posts in those threads on Owlstalk. There seems, at the moment, to be an irrational belief that we as fans are being blamed, which is clearly nonsense.

 

The tragic events of that day in 1989 have left an indelible mark on both our clubs. I think that, rather than letting it divide us and cause hatred between our clubs, we should use this shared history to produce bonds of solidarity between the two sets of fans. Given the way all football fans, and working class people, were viewed by the authorities at the time and the way football was policed back then the tragedy was waiting to happen and could just as easily have happened to Wednesday fans - could have happened to me - there but for the grace of God go I. I think it would be wonderful if Owls and Liverpool fans could get together and come up with a more fitting memorial to those who lost their lives that fateful day than the one that is already in place, though I don't really know how that could be made to happen - I'd certainly be interested if anyone has any ideas.

 

Again, I would like to apologise for those disgraceful comments. They are utterly inexcusable. I am sure a few Liverpool fans behaved badly that day - just as a few Owls behave badly at every match we play - but I know the lies in the Scum were exactly that and I think the minority of bigoted Wednesday fans, who are a stain on my great club, have been trawling through the documents released and picking out any evidence of this, some of which may well be of questionable veracity, not realising that it's an irrelevant distraction as even if all your fans had behaved as well as the vast majority did the disaster would still have happened. The blame lies with the police in charge that day and I hope they are made to pay.

 

The morons who made those comments on our Owlstalk forum are, as I have said, a tiny minority and I expect you know as well as anyone how terrible it is when the actions of a few fans are used to smear a fanbase as a whole. Please do not fall into the same trap as those idiots.

 

I hope these comments are received in the spirit in which they are delivered.

 

Yours with respect,

 

Richard.

 

RIP to the 96 victims.

[ROGO]

i was listening to that fucking ugly terry christian in the week, he was saying about how he feels a bit guilty cause he's now wondering how much influence they had over south yorkshire police's attitude towards us, when they would sing 'sign on' back to us when we sang YNWA......

what the fuck goes on in that fella's head?

[Arl arse]

Did the irony of that statement not jump out of the screen at you when you typed it? Is defining an entire group by the negative character traits of a minority within that group not the very essence of bigotry?

 

It's taken me a couple of days to get posting privileges so I apologise if this is a little late but as a Sheffield Wednesday fan I would like to apologise for the moronic, offensive, ignorant, bigoted comments of some of our fans. I can assure you all they're a tiny minority but by Christ they're vocal!

 

I have been convinced from the very start that the justice campaigners were right in asserting that there had been a cover-up aimed at hiding the culpability of South Yorkshire Police and would like to congratulate (maybe the wrong word given the gravity of the events in question but I cannot think of a better one right now) the families, victims and Liverpool fans in general on being vindicated, albeit 23 years too late. Now we have the truth (though I'm not convinced it is the whole truth, I believe it went right to the top, to Thatcher and her cabinet) next comes justice - I hope those culpable will be brought to account and the victims and their families suitably compensated - though obviously no amount of money can compensate for that kind of loss.

 

I believe that even the idiotic minority within our fanbase will, when given time to reflect, be ashamed of the knee jerk, defensive reaction seen in some posts in those threads on Owlstalk. There seems, at the moment, to be an irrational belief that we as fans are being blamed, which is clearly nonsense.

 

The tragic events of that day in 1989 have left an indelible mark on both our clubs. I think that, rather than letting it divide us and cause hatred between our clubs, we should use this shared history to produce bonds of solidarity between the two sets of fans. Given the way all football fans, and working class people, were viewed by the authorities at the time and the way football was policed back then the tragedy was waiting to happen and could just as easily have happened to Wednesday fans - could have happened to me - there but for the grace of God go I. I think it would be wonderful if Owls and Liverpool fans could get together and come up with a more fitting memorial to those who lost their lives that fateful day than the one that is already in place, though I don't really know how that could be made to happen - I'd certainly be interested if anyone has any ideas.

 

Again, I would like to apologise for those disgraceful comments. They are utterly inexcusable. I am sure a few Liverpool fans behaved badly that day - just as a few Owls behave badly at every match we play - but I know the lies in the Scum were exactly that and I think the minority of bigoted Wednesday fans, who are a stain on my great club, have been trawling through the documents released and picking out any evidence of this, some of which may well be of questionable veracity, not realising that it's an irrelevant distraction as even if all your fans had behaved as well as the vast majority did the disaster would still have happened. The blame lies with the police in charge that day and I hope they are made to pay.

 

The morons who made those comments on our Owlstalk forum are, as I have said, a tiny minority and I expect you know as well as anyone how terrible it is when the actions of a few fans are used to smear a fanbase as a whole. Please do not fall into the same trap as those idiots.

 

I hope these comments are received in the spirit in which they are delivered.

 

Yours with respect,

 

Richard.

 

RIP to the 96 victims.

 

Well said Tricky, we know it's a minority of ignorant fools on some forums but sometimes you reach a limit of reading vile comments and just fly off the handle.

Thanks for your kind words.

[BRAP]

We have our bellends too.

 

You dont hear it sung in the ground though by our fans, another myth

[Jarvinja Ilnow]

Cheers, Tricky. All clubs have their idiots but it's always nice to hear from good fans

[johnb]

If they pitch up with that 'ditty' next week, Steven/Brendan should round up our boys and take them off the field. And show them up for what THEY really are to the world.

[FanchesterCity]

Just as a point of interest, in the wake of the disaster, Manchester United wrote to the enquiry to commend the good behaviour of Liverpool fans at their ground.

 

And also, this a real shocker (to me), at least one of the allegations of police and being urinated on was a statement from a copper explaining it was at the Spion Kop / Forest end... (part of the HIP document release).

 

Some fascinating stuff there. Mind you, if you go to a came today, and ask people what they thought of the match, you'll get 100 different views. Pretty much the same at a disaster. It only takes one copper to face a bunch of yobbos, and he'll see the event as being rowdy, whilst another copper has a chat with the fans, and he believes they were 'a decent bunch'.

 

I 'think' I agree with Liverpool coming off the pitch if fans start singing those awful chants, but the only concern I'd have is if it's a minority, and the mics don't pick it up, it will pander to them, and fuel the 'always the victim' rubbish.

It's not going to be the majority of United fans... I know plenty and they'd feel ashamed of it (but they do fear some knuckle heads might try it).

[Gav]

Those Wedesday fans really are complete and utter bell-ends

 

Liverpool flying a flag.. - SHEFFIELD WEDNESDAY BOARDROOM - Owlstalk

[DJLJ]

Always the victim being sung at Old Trafford. Inbred cunts.

 

Atleast this is something: United hit out at anti-Liverpool chants | Irish Examiner.

 

United hit out at anti-Liverpool chants

 

Saturday, September 15, 2012 - 07:20 PM

 

Manchester United tonight said the club “deplore” the anti-Liverpool chanting which occurred briefly at Old Trafford during the 4-0 win over Wigan.

 

United manager Sir Alex Ferguson had expressed the hope that a line could be drawn in the sand on the sour relations between the two sets of supporters following this week’s damning report on the handling of the Hillsborough disaster in 1989, in which 96 people died.

 

The report laid bare a shocking cover-up which attempted to shift the blame for the tragedy on to its victims. It revealed South Yorkshire Police had instructed officers to change or amend their statements relating to the events of April 15, 1989, when the FA Cup semi-final between Liverpool and Nottingham Forest was abandoned as the tragedy unfolded.

 

United’s biggest win of the season this afternoon was scarred by a short burst of anti-Liverpool chanting from a small minority of home fans.

 

One clearly audible chant was “Always the victims, never your fault”.

 

Ferguson’s stance is shared by all senior figures at Old Trafford, who will hope today’s songs are not repeated when United head to Anfield on Sunday week.

 

A United spokesperson said the club “deplore” such songs.

 

In a statement, United said: “The manager has made the club’s position very clear on this matter.

 

“It is now up to the fans to respect that.”

[Arl arse]

Nice piece at the end of MOTD.

[Trumo]

Because of the events of the past week, I've looked at, read and listened to several different news sites, club websites, forums, TV and radio shows etc to get a general idea of how the news has been received by different quarters who would normally be anti-LFC. In the car earlier, I listened to a bit of 606 (which I've not done in years) and there was a Manc fan (called Francis I believe) who called in.

 

He said he was at the ManU-Wigan game today and heard some of these disgusting chants from a minority of the fans nearby, and actually felt like walking out. He mentioned that he'd been going to games since the 80s so remembers what conditions were like for all fans back then, and even though there was a fair bit of nastiness between fans back then, he feels the modern trend is much more sinister because many of the perpetrators weren't even born when the various tragedies happened, yet they glorify in hurling abuse and chanting disgraceful songs about them. One interesting comment he made was that he'd somehow got tickets for the rescheduled semi-final at Old Trafford in 1989, and Liverpool fans had the Stretford End (presumably because it's the west stand, like Leppings Lane being the north stand, thus preventing a situation where fans of opposing sides have to cross paths on the day). The Liverpool fans entering the stand were all filtering through just a couple of gates until a tannoy announcement informed them that there were other gates enabling them to spread right across the terrace. Consequently, the crowd flow was much better. Yes, Old Trafford was and is a bigger ground that Hillsborough, but crowd control and organisation was much better too.

[chris71]

Because of the events of the past week, I've looked at, read and listened to several different news sites, club websites, forums, TV and radio shows etc to get a general idea of how the news has been received by different quarters who would normally be anti-LFC. In the car earlier, I listened to a bit of 606 (which I've not done in years) and there was a Manc fan (called Francis I believe) who called in.

 

He said he was at the ManU-Wigan game today and heard some of these disgusting chants from a minority of the fans nearby, and actually felt like walking out. He mentioned that he'd been going to games since the 80s so remembers what conditions were like for all fans back then, and even though there was a fair bit of nastiness between fans back then, he feels the modern trend is much more sinister because many of the perpetrators weren't even born when the various tragedies happened, yet they glorify in hurling abuse and chanting disgraceful songs about them. One interesting comment he made was that he'd somehow got tickets for the rescheduled semi-final at Old Trafford in 1989, and Liverpool fans had the Stretford End (presumably because it's the west stand, like Leppings Lane being the north stand, thus preventing a situation where fans of opposing sides have to cross paths on the day). The Liverpool fans entering the stand were all filtering through just a couple of gates until a tannoy announcement informed them that there were other gates enabling them to spread right across the terrace. Consequently, the crowd flow was much better. Yes, Old Trafford was and is a bigger ground that Hillsborough, but crowd control and organisation was much better too.

 

Here it is.

 

listen to ‘Man Utd fan Francis made some very heartfelt comments about Hillsborough chanting at Old Trafford >> ’ on Audioboo

[Guest davelfc]

[lifetime fan]

HFSG meeting at Anfield this afternoon with Michael Mansfield and Charles Faulkner to decide on how to proceed legally.

[lifetime fan]

Did Sir Norman Bettison try to smear Hillsborough inquest judge?

 

Sir Norman Bettison triggered an attempt by South Yorkshire Police to prosecute the High Court judge who led the original Hillsborough inquiry in 1989 over claims that he had blamed the force for the disaster even before he began his investigation.

 

In what was last night condemned as another "black propaganda" operation, senior officers considered charging Lord Justice Taylor with perverting the course of justice after a police driver claimed he had overheard the judge state that the South Yorkshire force would have to carry the can for the catastrophe, which claimed the lives of 96 Liverpool fans in April 1989.

 

But although the alleged conversation took place only three days after the disaster, the driver waited a year to "put the record straight" over the "injustice" suffered by the force. Documents published by the Hillsborough Independent Panel last week show that he only reported the allegations after he was "encouraged" to do so by his colleague Norman Bettison – then a key figure in a South Yorkshire Police unit that attempted to exonerate the force and blame Liverpool fans for the tragedy.

 

Sir Norman, who was knighted in 2006 and now serves as West Yorkshire's chief constable, faced calls to resign last week after the panel's report was published – and he gave an initial response that appeared once more to push some of the blame on to fans. It was announced yesterday that he had been referred to the police watchdog by his own police authority, after it had received a complaint related to Hillsborough.

 

The police driver's accusation of prejudice against one of the most well-regarded judges in the country was taken so seriously that the South Yorkshire chief constable travelled to London to discuss potential charges with the Director of Public Prosecutions (DPP), claiming that: "My greatest wish is that the truth is served."

 

"The idea that the police would question the integrity of a High Court judge, let alone press charges against him, beggars belief," said Louise Ellman, now MP for Liverpool Riverside. "We have already seen evidence of this type of black propaganda. It shows the depths some people were willing to go to in order to shift the blame from themselves."

 

The independent panel's report last week vindicated victims' families, who had insisted the police, not the fans, were responsible for the disaster. It found that police and emergency services had made "strenuous attempts" to deflect blame on to fans. More than 160 police statements were changed, 116 of them to remove or alter "unfavourable" comments about the policing of the match and the unfolding disaster.

 

But among the thousands of documents was a confidential file detailing allegations from the unnamed officer who drove the judge and the then West Midlands chief constable, Geoffrey Dear – who was also investigating the tragedy – to the Hillsborough stadium three days after the disaster.

 

The DPP at the time advised there was no case to answer. Despite this and dismissals by both Lord Justice Taylor and Mr Dear when the allegations were put to them by a senior official of the Home Office, the file was deemed so sensitive that it was kept in a safe for several years with a note warning that a leak of the details "could prove highly embarrassing for all parties".

 

 

Did Sir Norman Bettison try to smear Hillsborough inquest judge? - Home News - UK - The Independent

[Faustus]

Watching MOTD at the moment and they just showed the playing of You'll Never Walk Alone before the match at the Madejski today.

 

Nice one, Reading. Classy gesture.

[Guest San Don]

Did Sir Norman Bettison try to smear Hillsborough inquest judge?

 

Sir Norman Bettison triggered an attempt by South Yorkshire Police to prosecute the High Court judge who led the original Hillsborough inquiry in 1989 over claims that he had blamed the force for the disaster even before he began his investigation.

 

In what was last night condemned as another "black propaganda" operation, senior officers considered charging Lord Justice Taylor with perverting the course of justice after a police driver claimed he had overheard the judge state that the South Yorkshire force would have to carry the can for the catastrophe, which claimed the lives of 96 Liverpool fans in April 1989.

 

But although the alleged conversation took place only three days after the disaster, the driver waited a year to "put the record straight" over the "injustice" suffered by the force. Documents published by the Hillsborough Independent Panel last week show that he only reported the allegations after he was "encouraged" to do so by his colleague Norman Bettison – then a key figure in a South Yorkshire Police unit that attempted to exonerate the force and blame Liverpool fans for the tragedy.

 

Sir Norman, who was knighted in 2006 and now serves as West Yorkshire's chief constable, faced calls to resign last week after the panel's report was published – and he gave an initial response that appeared once more to push some of the blame on to fans. It was announced yesterday that he had been referred to the police watchdog by his own police authority, after it had received a complaint related to Hillsborough.

 

The police driver's accusation of prejudice against one of the most well-regarded judges in the country was taken so seriously that the South Yorkshire chief constable travelled to London to discuss potential charges with the Director of Public Prosecutions (DPP), claiming that: "My greatest wish is that the truth is served."

 

"The idea that the police would question the integrity of a High Court judge, let alone press charges against him, beggars belief," said Louise Ellman, now MP for Liverpool Riverside. "We have already seen evidence of this type of black propaganda. It shows the depths some people were willing to go to in order to shift the blame from themselves."

 

The independent panel's report last week vindicated victims' families, who had insisted the police, not the fans, were responsible for the disaster. It found that police and emergency services had made "strenuous attempts" to deflect blame on to fans. More than 160 police statements were changed, 116 of them to remove or alter "unfavourable" comments about the policing of the match and the unfolding disaster.

 

But among the thousands of documents was a confidential file detailing allegations from the unnamed officer who drove the judge and the then West Midlands chief constable, Geoffrey Dear – who was also investigating the tragedy – to the Hillsborough stadium three days after the disaster.

 

The DPP at the time advised there was no case to answer. Despite this and dismissals by both Lord Justice Taylor and Mr Dear when the allegations were put to them by a senior official of the Home Office, the file was deemed so sensitive that it was kept in a safe for several years with a note warning that a leak of the details "could prove highly embarrassing for all parties".

 

 

Did Sir Norman Bettison try to smear Hillsborough inquest judge? - Home News - UK - The Independent

 

Of course he fucking did (try to smear LJ Taylor), he is SYP.

 

I know you are only repeating the article :yes:

[Guest San Don]

Because of the events of the past week, I've looked at, read and listened to several different news sites, club websites, forums, TV and radio shows etc to get a general idea of how the news has been received by different quarters who would normally be anti-LFC. In the car earlier, I listened to a bit of 606 (which I've not done in years) and there was a Manc fan (called Francis I believe) who called in.

 

He said he was at the ManU-Wigan game today and heard some of these disgusting chants from a minority of the fans nearby, and actually felt like walking out. He mentioned that he'd been going to games since the 80s so remembers what conditions were like for all fans back then, and even though there was a fair bit of nastiness between fans back then, he feels the modern trend is much more sinister because many of the perpetrators weren't even born when the various tragedies happened, yet they glorify in hurling abuse and chanting disgraceful songs about them. One interesting comment he made was that he'd somehow got tickets for the rescheduled semi-final at Old Trafford in 1989, and Liverpool fans had the Stretford End (presumably because it's the west stand, like Leppings Lane being the north stand, thus preventing a situation where fans of opposing sides have to cross paths on the day). The Liverpool fans entering the stand were all filtering through just a couple of gates until a tannoy announcement informed them that there were other gates enabling them to spread right across the terrace. Consequently, the crowd flow was much better. Yes, Old Trafford was and is a bigger ground that Hillsborough, but crowd control and organisation was much better too.

 

Sorry, I was at both semis (88 and 89) and the replayed game in manchester. I just dont recollect anything like what you have said there about fans at the ground.

 

IIRC it was my first visit to their place. There was a massive police presence but it was low key. The concourse around the stadium was wide open and as far as I can remember there was virtually no hold up getting in the ground nor people only using a few turnstiles.

 

Inside the ground, the gates in the fences were open before, during and after the game. And it was a fucking roasting day too!

[Nelly-Szoboszlai]

Documentary on now on the History Channel. Talking to all the players who played on the day. Gary Ablett speaking very eloquently and passionately about the events that day. True shame he wasn't around to see the truth being revealed.