Hillsborough "The Search For Truth" 10.25pm

[Guest ShoePiss]

BBC reporting, Norman Bettison will be investigated by the IPCC.

 

Good, it was a disgrace that he was ever Chief Cuntstable of Merseyside Police after his role in the 'investigation'.

[MLB]

Bernstein's apology comes off as being worded by lawyers. Insincere prick. Fuck the FA. Gobshites.

[dobbalina]

Beautifully put.

 

People need to stop and think when they use terms like 'Scouse Scum / Dippers' and 'Manc Cunts'. People are just people.

I'm sick of the chanting. I'm sick of the name calling. I'm sick of the stereotypes.

 

We can banter and laugh at fate on the football field. There's enough drama there to keep us all entertained. It's time to remember we all love football, and we all want to get home to our loved ones.

 

You'll not change the hard core few, but we as the majority can make those morons a smaller and smaller minority.

 

Although some might not like to admit it, the people of Liverpool and Manchester are very similar.

[Arl arse]

Although some might not like to admit it, the people of Liverpool and Manchester are very similar.

 

Not just the people of Manchester and Liverpool, People the world over are similar.

But those in power want us to believe we are all at each others throats so as to keep us divided.

It's a tactic they've used for 100's of years called divide and rule.

Sports have been used to split the general population into tribes too busy fighting one another to see the bigger picture of how we're all being collectively screwed by those in power.

[MLB]

Not just the people of Manchester and Liverpool, People the world over are similar.

But those in power want us to believe we are all at each others throats so as to keep us divided.

It's a tactic they've used for 100's of years called divide and rule.

Sports have been used to split the general population into tribes too busy fighting one another to see the bigger picture of how we're all being collectively screwed by those in power.

 

 

100% correct.

[Bernard Diomede]

That apology from the FA is a fucking disgrace.

 

They have known that the ground never had a valid safety certificate for 23 fucking years, and a day after the report comes out they start to fucking grovel just because everybody else has.

 

He even said I offer my condolences to the families, the FA offering there condolences, 23 years after the event. Fuck off. You've known you were criminally negligent for 23 years.

 

I'm more angry now about this stitch up than I've ever been, every bastard involved has been hoping and praying that this would go away, and the only reason they are apologising for this is to try and save face in the PR stakes. Apologising because it is expected of you means fuck all, if you were truely sorry you'd have strung up the people responsible for having the ame there years ago.

 

Well they can all fuck off as far as I am concerned. Lets see what there platitudes do for them when they are in front of the jury.

 

Cunts

[halewood pete]

I've had to restrain myself from hitting one of my colleagues who said that the fans and families should just "get over it"

 

i have had 23 years of that mate

[Guest davelfc]

Ut6uvBlDQO8

[razor]

For me, one of the saddest aspects of this uncovering of the truth is not that a whole city, culture, swathe of society were labeled the way they were, but more that the climate actually existed to allow this to happen. This is the damning shame.

 

In the 1980s the working class were seen as the enemy (within…). Football fans were seen as the enemy. Liverpool was seen as the personification of the enemy: working class, bolshie, resistant, dedicated to football.

 

Liverpool was the enemy of the British government’s policies of the day: systematic closure of the traditional manufacturing industries in the north/Scotland/Wales/NI and heavily subsidised growth in the south. But for the media, establishment, and then the GREAT BRITISH PUBLIC to be so willing to accept the picture painted by these few is horrifying.

 

There were a few cautious voices at the time, but they were very few and they were very far apart. Mostly they were ridiculed.

 

This, in the true sense of the phrase, is a real shame.

 

A city was demonized (very similarly to the way certain parts of the population are today – gypsies, low socio-economic groups, Muslims) and unquestioning people went for the simple label that made complex issues easy and convenient.

 

The real victims in all of this of course were the families. Their level of dignity shown throughout is beyond belief. Their pain was simply a bi-product of a mentality that was all too eager to point and confirm the prejudiced labels.

 

Establishment can now point to police, media, even government for culpability. But it was these institutions that created the climate that allowed the lies to live.

[lifetime fan]

Ut6uvBlDQO8

 

 

Well in Kirsty Wark.

[xerxes]

That apology from the FA is a fucking disgrace.They have known that the ground never had a valid safety certificate for 23 fucking years, and a day after the report comes out they start to fucking grovel just because everybody else has.

This story still has plenty of legs.

 

Licensing authorities, local authorities, the league, FA and clubs had been complicit in giving up on the behaviour of fans, their policing and the conditions in grounds.

[Tony Moanero]

Beautifully put.

 

People need to stop and think when they use terms like 'Scouse Scum / Dippers' and 'Manc Cunts'. People are just people.

 

Fanchester is right.

[Red22]

The FA are worried about the whole 'safety certificate' thing and rightly so. Statement deliberately avoided making an unconditional apology and if memory serves today they were forced into doing it by another organisation/person going public.

 

Re 'justice'....

 

For manslaughter, David Duckenfield. Trial brought against him in 2000 - retired at 55 with a nice fat pension.

 

Police chief 'tried to blame fans for the Hillsborough disaster' - Telegraph

 

For the smear campaign, Irvine Patnick and Duckenfield et al (MacKenzie isn't a saint but it's a possibility that he was misled):

 

"Ex-conservative MP for Sheffield Hallam. Also named as a source behind the false story distributed by White’s, which was picked up most notoriously by The Sun and branded 'The Truth'. Left politics after losing seat in 1997".

[Jose Jones]

For me, one of the saddest aspects of this uncovering of the truth is not that a whole city, culture, swathe of society were labeled the way they were, but more that the climate actually existed to allow this to happen. This is the damning shame.

 

In the 1980s the working class were seen as the enemy (within…). Football fans were seen as the enemy. Liverpool was seen as the personification of the enemy: working class, bolshie, resistant, dedicated to football.

 

Liverpool was the enemy of the British government’s policies of the day: systematic closure of the traditional manufacturing industries in the north/Scotland/Wales/NI and heavily subsidised growth in the south. But for the media, establishment, and then the GREAT BRITISH PUBLIC to be so willing to accept the picture painted by these few is horrifying.

 

There were a few cautious voices at the time, but they were very few and they were very far apart. Mostly they were ridiculed.

 

This, in the true sense of the phrase, is a real shame.

 

A city was demonized (very similarly to the way certain parts of the population are today – gypsies, low socio-economic groups, Muslims) and unquestioning people went for the simple label that made complex issues easy and convenient.

 

The real victims in all of this of course were the families. Their level of dignity shown throughout is beyond belief. Their pain was simply a bi-product of a mentality that was all too eager to point and confirm the prejudiced labels.

 

Establishment can now point to police, media, even government for culpability. But it was these institutions that created the climate that allowed the lies to live.

 

Quality that Razor.

[Dr Arthur De Sabre]

The FA are worried about the whole 'safety certificate' thing and rightly so. Statement deliberately avoided making an unconditional apology and if memory serves today they were forced into doing it by another organisation/person going public.

 

Re 'justice'....

 

For manslaughter' date=' David Duckenfield. Trial brought against him in 2000 - retired at 55 with a nice fat pension.

 

Police chief 'tried to blame fans for the Hillsborough disaster' - Telegraph

 

For the smear campaign, Irvine Patnick and Duckenfield et al (MacKenzie isn't a saint but it's a possibility that he was misled):

 

"Ex-conservative MP for Sheffield Hallam. Also named as a source behind the false story distributed by White's, which was picked up most notoriously by The Sun and branded 'The Truth'. Left politics after losing seat in 1997".

 

Mckenzie would have known he was talking through his hole pretty soon after the front page splash if he didn't before. He's been happy to peddle his lies since then, as it was roundly backed up by the establishment. The only reason he has backtracked is due to believing the general public will be taken in by his "apology". Cut the prick no slack, he has known the truth for years. He and his paper pissed on the graves of the dead and spat in the faces of the fans who dragged out the dead and dying, friends, relatives complete unknowns. Some were resuscitated and made it back home that night due to these fans that the scumbag painted as villains 3 days later. It shows a lot for the attitude of those affected, that no one has ever taken the fucker out for what he did

[WaltonRed]

adrian bevington came across well on the footballers football show on sky last night

[Fink]

I rung up the synagogue in sheffield and got Irvine patnicks email address. I've requested a meeting to discuss his comments and his apology.

[Rico1304]

Did anyone listen to Talksport last night about 4:30? A Leicester fan (think her name was Christine) phoned up and spoke incredibly passionately about being taken in my the lies, the press and how if a scandal about the death of Milly Dowler could end the NoTW, then the lies about the deaths of 96 people should end the S*n. her passion was amazing, hopefully that's happening across the country right now.

[Coro]

John Glover. An inspiration and a founder member of the HJC. A MUST read.

 

Hillsborough: Terminally ill dad of victim fought off death to see report verdict - Mirror Online

 

Since that terrible day in 1989, John Glover has spent his life trying to get justice for his son – a battle that has taken a terrible toll on him and his family

 

For 23 years a question has haunted grieving John Glover – could his son have been saved?

 

Now the terminally-ill dad has the answer. Devastatingly, it is “yes”.

 

His 20-year-old son Ian is one of the 41 Hillsborough victims who could have lived but who were left to die.

 

Since that terrible day in 1989, John has spent his life trying to get justice for his son – a battle that has taken a terrible toll on him and his family.

 

He was diagnosed with cancer in October last year and, as he *deteriorated quickly, doctors told him he might only survive until Christmas.

 

The release of the Hillsborough report was not due for months and it seemed John, now 72, would be cheated out of the answers he craved.

 

But with grim determination he hung on and against all the odds he was helped up the steps to Liverpool’s Anglican Cathedral on Wednesday to hear the truth.

 

The dad-of-six said: “I now know Ian was one of the 41 who could have been saved. He got out of those terrible terrace crushes and was left to die.

 

“A little bit of medical attention would have kept him alive.”

 

It is the news he feared, but finally at least he knows for sure.

 

He added: “All those ambulances were lined up outside but didn’t even get on to the park. That makes me feel terrible – that they could have been there for Ian, but they weren’t.

 

“These people take a job to save lives but they sat outside and nothing was done. There are so many faults with Hillsborough I could go on and on.”

 

John’s determination to get the truth led to him helping to launch the Hillsborough Justice Campaign – Ricky Tomlinson played him in Jimmy McGovern’s ground-breaking 1996 TV docu-drama about the disaster. And after two decades, John was there to hear about what has been called the worst cover-up in British legal history.

 

He said: “I was really pleased to be there and I’m made up with what went on. Hearing about the cover-up, and how the police and others tried to cover their own tracks and point the finger at the Liverpool supporters, I’ve known that for a long, long time.

 

“It’s so good the lies have been exposed because this injustice could have gone on and on. Why do these people do it? I just don’t know.

 

“Police received compensation for what happened to them at *Hillsborough. We lost our kids, yet we were told to go away. It’s all very wrong.”

 

John’s family were so fearful that he might not make it to hear the report, they asked for a special advance reading of it.

 

They hoped it would provide some solace before he died. Bishop James Jones, who led the independent panel, sympathised with their predicament, but said rules could not be broken.

 

Twice, however, the bishop visited John’s home in the Walton area of Liverpool, and the family sensed they were on the verge of a historic breakthrough. John said: “He couldn’t tell me anything, but you could tell by the way he was talking that something major would be coming out.

 

“I thank God for everyone who worked on this new report.”

 

John now has many of his answers but still hopes to see justice. He said: “I never stopped with Hillsborough. I’ve spent my life with it. I used to get downhearted when it looked like we weren’t getting anywhere.

 

“There’s still a long way to go. Things are nowhere near over.

 

“I don’t think the police will give in, but the evidence is all there now to take people to court and to hold them to account. Once that has been sorted, we can get on with our lives and get back to normal.

 

“That’s all we’ve been asking for during these 23 years, to try to put things behind us. But those in authority never let us.

 

“I think criminal prosecutions are the right way to go because they destroyed the lives of 96 families.

 

“One of my other sons, Joe, who was with Ian on the Leppings Lane was badly affected by what happened.

 

“It was important to me to start the Hillsborough Justice Campaign and I’m glad it’s still there to help anyone who went to that football match, and the survivors who are still haunted by the memories of that day.”

 

Brothers Ian and Joe were standing together at the infamous FA Cup semi-final clash against Nottingham Forest, but as the crowds tightened, Joe could only watch his younger sibling slip away.

 

As Joe somehow escaped on to the pitch, Ian was just two rows back in the *sickening crush in the central pen, and managed to plead to his brother: “Help me, I’m dying.”

 

Joe later gave the kiss-of-life to Ian on the pitch, but his efforts were in vain.

 

The family admit that from that day Joe became “a shell”.

 

He would often go missing and would sometimes be found sleeping on his brother’s grave in a Liverpool cemetery. Tragedy struck again when, almost exactly 10 years later, Joe was killed in a freak accident at work aged 32.

 

He was unloading a van when he was crushed by the full weight of five-tonne marble slabs, heroically pushing a workmate out of the way, almost certainly saving his life.

 

But while the family have been hit by years of heartache, this week’s news has given them a sense of comfort they feared they might never get. John’s daughter Lorraine, 38, said: “The day before the disclosure, we debated as a family what to do for the best for my dad.

 

“If it was bad news, we didn’t want to set him back. But we thought ‘it’s absolutely right he should be there’. He’s done brilliantly to get this far.

 

“We took him to the cathedral at 9am, and later took him home for a sleep and his morphine.

 

“But he was keen to go to the vigil in the evening where he watched it on a screen. What came out in the report is what he’s said many times before. Wednesday was a sad occasion, but at the same time, it was nice recognition.

 

“He won’t read the full report, but he knows the truth has come out. I cried yesterday for him and how he’s fought it. But he’s been fighting for 23 years.”

 

A Hillsborough Independent Panel spokesman said yesterday: “The bishop has said the panel will remain together for the next few months to help families.

 

“[The panel’s medical expert] Dr Bill Kirkup will be part of that to discuss medical matters with any families who wish to do so. And conversations they have, are of course, confidential.”

[njackets]

Did anyone listen to Talksport last night about 4:30? A Leicester fan (think her name was Christine) phoned up and spoke incredibly passionately about being taken in my the lies, the press and how if a scandal about the death of Milly Dowler could end the NoTW, then the lies about the deaths of 96 people should end the S*n. her passion was amazing, hopefully that's happening across the country right now.

 

If we could get the S*n closed down that would be one hell of a fucking result, I ve seen a petition go round on Facebook but seen it as a waste of time. But with all this Levison inquiry stuff and enough public support? At least give them a few sleepless nights?

[xerxes]

As the dust settles it is right that all parties reflect should reflect on what happens next, a task which is not as straight forwards as it at first appears.

 

I have commented previously that time offers both advantages in perspective and cool judgement, and disadvantages in a disconnect with the zeitgeist of the era.

 

In many respects there have been precious few revelations, only confirmation of what most informed people knew; this disaster was not fan driven, the aftermath was botched, the cover-up of the shortcomings of the response shameful.

 

The context of the infamous Scum report becomes clearer, a response to panic stricken official briefings, part ill-informed, part deliberately misinformed. Urinating on the dead? At big games, with drinks beforehand and inadequate toilet facilities some do urinate publicly, it doesn’t take Chinese whispers long to distort that. Pickpocketing the dead? Or checking for identification? How easily one thing becomes another. We all had a right to expect better.

 

The thorny question of what “Justice” means remains, and to the bereaved it will mean as many different things as it does to everyone else. I am concerned that two elements are being blurred in some reports. Trying to blame the Police for the disaster itself, the events leading up to around 3.15pm is doomed. Identifying those individuals who rewrote the facts in terms of altered notes and false briefings much easier.

 

All those in positions of responsibility at the time have long since retired. The disaster itself prompted a seismic shift in football’s attitude to itself, the public’s attitude to football, and the way it was managed by the authorities. Today’s stadia and crowd management procedures are a testament to that.

 

For some, “Justice” represents “the truth”, and we are probably just about there. Beyond that it becomes more problematic.

[mrw74]

i have had 23 years of that mate

 

And I work at a university with allegedly intelligent people!!!!

 

One woman is a spurs fan, only 26, and didn't know much about Hillsborough, but she has done her own research, watched the recent programmes and read the report that came out and formed her own opinions, and she is horrified at what happened. Others just can't be arsed to too similar.

[fivein05]

And I work at a university with allegedly intelligent people!!!!

 

One woman is a spurs fan, only 26, and didn't know much about Hillsborough, but she has done her own research, watched the recent programmes and read the report that came out and formed her own opinions, and she is horrified at what happened. Others just can't be arsed to too similar.

 

Go on youtube and input Hillsborough Tottenham Hotspur, years before our Semi final Spurs fans were caught up in a similar scenario. There but for the grace of God eh.

[Gav]

[YOUTUBE]jtzHVe2mEN0[/YOUTUBE]

[mrw74]

Go on youtube and input Hillsborough Tottenham Hotspur, years before our Semi final Spurs fans were caught up in a similar scenario. There but for the grace of God eh.

 

I mentioned this, and fair play to her, she had a look and read a lot about it as well. She's researching things for herself and finding out a lot of facts that she didn't know anything about her. Just a shame that others don't do the same thing.