Hillsborough "The Search For Truth" 10.25pm

[Gav]

Good on ya Kirsty ..don't leave the bastard use the SOGDI defence

[FanchesterCity]

Kirsty Wark going to town on the Chief Constable of SYP.

 

And she's right as is Mr Hicks.... although today's politicians (mostly) and the current SYP weren't in post at the time... much of this has been known by THEM too, but still, they kept choosing not to reveal it.

[Guest davelfc]

[VERBAL DIARRHEA]

Now the truth is finally in the public domain, a truth that is even more damning towards the authorities than originally thought. I, like many was personally affected and like many have had to defend our fans to the uneducated and downright nasty bastards that are out there, too many times to list. I now however do not care what these imbeciles think, they can beat their chests and spew whatever bile they want, the truth has outed, so fuck them. Now for justice.

[Redder Lurtz]

Was sent this by a Sheff United fan earlier..jesus ,these wednesday fans are seriously fucked up

 

Club Statement on Release of Hillsborough Documents - SHEFFIELD WEDNESDAY MATCHDAY - Owlstalk

 

and this ones even worse if thats possible

 

Hillsborough disaster on tv again - SHEFFIELD WEDNESDAY BOARDROOM - Owlstalk

 

Myopic, pigheaded, uneducated Yorkshire bigots. Nothing new there then.

[Rafiagra]

Only clicked on the second link and It's not all the fans to be fair. Just a moronic minority and every club has those.

[Nelly-Szoboszlai]

Whispers that United fans, some anyway, are attempting to arrange a Justice for the 96 banner when they come to Anfield in just over a week. Also that they may join in with the singing of YNWA. Could be a bit too much between the clubs for that to happen, but it would be a nice gesture if it did.

[FanchesterCity]

It's heartbreaking trying to get through to some fans.

 

I struggle to understand how anybody who goes to a game can't see (even in seated grounds) how it can happen... and how you could be sat next to your best mate one minute, then....

 

Can't they visualise in their own minds from their own stadiums the wide range of fans that attend?... then even with a handful of yobs, and insult chanters, and cocky gits... they're all just individuals off to see the game....

and that's what Liverpool fans were doing on that day?

 

Do they think they WOULDN'T have a pint or two on a lovely spring day? course they might

Do they think they'd act like morons after a drink? course they wouldn't

 

They seem completely unable to look beyond the shirt, and see themselves in the same position.

[FanchesterCity]

Whispers that United fans, some anyway, are attempting to arrange a Justice for the 96 banner when they come to Anfield in just over a week. Also that they may join in with the singing of YNWA. Could be a bit too much between the clubs for that to happen, but it would be a nice gesture if it did.

 

I attempted that at City for the next home game.

 

I basically told them all they were a fucking disgrace to humanity (the ones that said 'no'). Every club's got cunts. It saddens me.

[njackets]

Not a peep on the front page of The Telegraph tomorrow!! The Express runs a story about immigration as its main story, i'm not that surprised about the Express but the fucking Telegraph completely ignoring this on its front page?? 23 years on and the press are still fucking us over, a fucking disgrace!!

[Neil G]

Whispers that United fans, some anyway, are attempting to arrange a Justice for the 96 banner when they come to Anfield in just over a week. Also that they may join in with the singing of YNWA. Could be a bit too much between the clubs for that to happen, but it would be a nice gesture if it did.

 

 

That would be brilliant in theory, but the problem is that the whole Suarez / Evra thing will overshadow it.

 

I was reading a thread on Redcafe where someone suggested it. Someone replied who appeared to be supportive of the justice campaign, but who thought that if we started booing Evra when the game began, it would leave a really nasty taste and would undo a lot of the mutual goodwill a banner would create. A lot of our fans would feel the same about them booing Luis.

 

Tricky one.

[Gav]

Not a peep on the front page of The Telegraph tomorrow!! The Express runs a story about immigration as its main story, i'm not that surprised about the Express but the fucking Telegraph completely ignoring this on its front page?? 23 years on and the press are still fucking us over, a fucking disgrace!!

 

They had 4 or 5 different journos at the PC's today too which makes it really bizarre

[Trumo]

Some of those Wednesday fans are fucking idiots, of that there is no doubt. Today's findings make it absolutely clear that the Liverpool fans were cleared of wrongdoing and causing the disaster, yet some of these Wednesday forumites are now questioning the findings of the panel. While it won't be the same people as back then, I don't recall much questioning after the results of the original enquiry, apart from the Hillsborough families and campaigners in the main.

 

But a bit of context. Most football fans in the Steel City follow either Wednesday or United, and neither club has much of a following outside the city. Both can be considered to be parochial clubs. Indeed they squabble over local bragging rights that nobody else gives a fuck about. Since the SYP and the ambulance authority in charge on the day are both Sheffield-based, and both Wednesday and Sheffield Council were involved in organising (inserts sarcastic 'Ha!' at this point) proceedings that day, it is highly likely that many of the police officers, ambulance staff, council staff and Wednesday staff were local too. Therefore they may well have been - and will have relatives who are - Wednesday fans, and some of those might be forumites on Wednesday sites like the above. Since today's report throws the book at the failing of these establishments, it implicates people who might be forumites on these sites (or more likely their relatives) as culpable for a disaster that claimed 96 lives. Under those circumstances, some people might feel the need to go on the defensive and protect their own, even in light of the findings, or indeed logic. That's human nature at work.

 

That's not to defend them or their (wrong) opinions, but just to say that is how it is.

 

A bit more context to explain why I've said the above. I lived and studied in Sheffield for 4 years, and I was there around the time of the 10th anniversary. I have to say that nobody I ever met expressed the sort of views posted on that forum, and indeed a few were sad that it happened, not least at their stadium. One of my former landlords once mentioned that his sister lived about a 10-minute walk from Hillsborough at the time of the disaster, and she was one of those who invited in a couple of Liverpool fans to have a cup of tea and call home to say they were safe. Of course I don't know her name or the fans' names, but I've heard of several similar stories elsewhere with other local residents.

 

I suppose my point is that in Sheffield, there are still groups of ignorant and ill-informed people who will end up changing their stance in light of today. There are still groups of ignorant and ill-informed people who aren't interested and would prefer to remain ill-informed and ignorant. There are groups that, while neither ill-informed not ignorant, are fiercely protective of people they know who may have been involved that day and are directly or indirectly being implicated for their actions or non-actions. But there are loads of decent and fair-minded people too, and they shouldn't be tarnished with the same brush as all the dickheads.

[njackets]

I hope Margaret Aspinall is recognised in the next honours list. she's been a rock for the last 23 years, absolutely inspiring.

 

I've been thinking this all day myself, Trevor Hicks has been beyond words in all this also.

[WaltonRed]

Sheila Coleman is something else too

 

The woman is a true inspiration

[lifetime fan]

Brian Reade opinion: Kicked to hell and back, the Hillsborough mothers refused to let their lost children down

 

 

 

The Mirror writer who stood and fought alongside the families for over two decades reflects on the day the house of lies came tumbling down

 

 

 

 

 

 

"A better quality of grieving": Wednesday is not the end for the victims' families

Andy Stenning

 

 

We are taught from childhood to always believe that “the truth will out”.

 

That however bad a deed or lie, justice will eventually be seen to be done. Because that is how life works.

 

For 23 years and 150 days, 96 bereaved families, hundreds of mentally-scarred survivors and thousands of fans who witnessed what happened at Hillsborough stadium on April 15, 1989, have scorned such a notion.

 

They played by the book, trying every point of authority to get that truth out.

 

They pleaded with the Establishment’s conscience to cease looking away and finally admit why 96 people, half of whom were 21 or younger, never came back from a football game.

 

Yet they got nothing back but rants about whingeing and kicks in the teeth from size 10 boots.

 

Until Wednesday, when the house of lies came tumbling down.

 

When the sheer force of love and dedication and refusal to be beaten forced out that truth.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Like a few thousand others who walked through the open Leppings Lane gate that fateful day and looked on as men, women and children were killed for simply being football fans, it felt like the heaviest burden I’d ever carried had been lifted.

 

It felt like a machine-gun was hosing down all the myths and lies that led to the grotesque fiction that said we killed our own.

 

The inquest verdicts of accidental death, the defence that there was no cover-up, that the disaster was caused by a “tanked-up ticketless mob,” The Sun’s front page, the accuracy of the police and ambulance statements, the notion that the stadium was safe and that victims could not have been saved.

 

Boom, boom, boom.

 

All shot down as cruel and calculated lies.

 

A few months back, David Cameron compared the families’ quest for justice to “a blind man, in a dark room, looking for a black cat that isn’t there”.

 

When he read the report, he clearly changed his mind and I thank him for his profound apology, and the sincere tone of horror in his voice.

 

But so staggering was the cover-up, and so steeped in criminality, that he had no other option.

 

 

Profound apology: PM David Cameron addresses the Commons

PA

 

 

As someone who has fought every inch of the way with the families for 20 years I would now like to explain how that quest for justice and that Prime Ministerial apology on the floor of the House of Commons felt.

 

Like you’d been scratching at a concrete dam with your fingernails for half-a-lifetime hoping to see a chink of light, and then it came, and it grew, until a tide of truth surged through to reveal a blue sky, with a blinding sun and a single cloud in the shape of a question mark.

 

Asking why it took so long.

 

On Wednesday afternoon, hugging bereaved parents like Trevor and Jenni Hicks, Margaret Aspinall and Barry Devonside, I realised it was the first time in 20 years we’d done so in joy.

 

But it was the strangest kind of joy.

 

The sense of triumph and relief that the families had finally been vindicated was laced with anger.

 

A deep, simmering anger that it had taken an eternity for the full picture to emerge.

 

That the bereaved and the survivors had been kicked to hell and back, leaving a soul-numbing trail of broken marriages, suicides and deaths through broken hearts.

 

“I always knew we’d get there, love” said Margaret, her expression an intense mix of ecstasy and pain. “You fans have all been exonerated and the 96 can rest in peace.”

 

“We did it,” said Trevor. “But this morning in there was bloody hard. When we realised that half of the 96 could have been saved, it blew me away. Three people fainted.”

 

When I read how some of the young victims had blood samples taken and their names cross checked with the police computer to see if they had criminal records, I almost fainted myself.

 

That got to me.

 

As did the harrowing prospect that 41 victims could have been saved.

 

But it was the look on the mothers’ faces that got to me most.

 

Women I’d seen age from being in their 30s and 40s into near pensioners, dragged down by it all, but never dragged under.

 

It reminded me of being in the Old Bailey in January and seeing Doreen Lawrence finally, after 18 years get justice for her son Stephen.

 

That day, she wore the same look the Hillsborough mums did on Wednesday.

 

A look of defiant pride that they hadn’t let their lost child down.

 

The likes of Margaret and Jenni Hicks, Doreen Jones, Hilda Hammond, Dolores Steele, Ann Williams and all the others fought on, in the belief that when you bring a child into this world, the facts on the birth certificate are accurate.

 

When they leave, the least you can do for them is put the true facts on their death certificate.

 

Well now, with the almost certainty of new inquests they should get them.

 

As with Doreen Lawrence they fought with every breath in their body for their babies, who had not only been killed but viciously neglected by those who were supposed to be in their place in their hour of need.

 

In both the Lawrence and Hillsborough cases the Establishment reckoned it would eventually wear down the opposition but never realised it was dealing with the most potent force of all – a mother’s love.

 

 

Never give up: Margaret Aspinall campaigned tirelessly

PA

 

 

As Margaret Aspinall said: “We were our children’s eyes, their ears. We were their voices. And we were never going to be silenced.”

 

But this release of the truth wasn’t just about mothers. It affected many levels of victim in many different ways.

 

Steven Wright, who saw his brother Graham die that day, said with a broken voice: “I’ve got this strong image in my head of my brother mouthing the words ‘thank you’.”

 

And Becky Shah, whose 38-year-old mum Inger died at Hillsborough, said with a serene poignancy: “I can’t understand why it’s taken half my life to get here after I lost my mum. And I think that for a so-called civilised country like Britain, it’s disgraceful.”

 

The families never thought as one. How could they.

 

Hillsborough and the aftermath ripped the hearts out of 96 different families, who all coped without it in different ways.

 

Indeed, what I call the third Hillsborough tragedy came when the families could not agree on the best way to achieve justice and split into two groups, each decrying the others’ methods.

 

On Wednesday. the Family Support Group (HFSG) and the Justice Campaign (HJC) wouldn’t share the same press conference.

 

I reminded Sheila Coleman of HJC and Margaret and Trevor of the HFSG how many years ago, when we walked out of Leeds crown court after the failed public prosecutions and the House of Commons after the failed public inquiry, I told them that one day they would walk out of a big old building with the word justice ringing in their ears.

 

And a nation left in no doubt of the truth of that terrible day.

 

“You’re jumping the gun,” said Margaret. “We’ve got the truth but we still haven’t got the justice.”

 

Margaret said all she’d ever wanted was to remove the blanket of lies that had been thrown over her son James and Hillsborough.

 

All she’d been given, for 23 years, she said, was the crumbs off the table.

 

Now, she's got a few slices short of the full loaf.

 

But did it feel like that?

 

“No,” she said. “We’re still the losers in all this. All I’ve got today is a better quality of grieving.”

 

Maybe when the families get those final few slices, closure from this horrendous nightmare - the biggest cover-up in British history, as Mike Mansfield called it on Wednesday - can begin

[lifetime fan]

"Blood on our hands": The Hillsborough cover-up and how police sought to blame dead fans for their own failings

 

 

 

 

The cynical, calculated action of South Yorkshire Police was branded “vengeful and spiteful” by families of the 96 Liverpool fans who died at the Sheffield stadium April 15, 1989

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Salute: Young players at a vigil for the Hillsborough victims

Andy Stenning

 

 

The police force responsible for a “monumental cover-up” over the Hillsborough disaster finally admitted yesterday: “We’ve got blood on our hands.”

 

The cynical, calculated action of South Yorkshire Police was branded “vengeful and spiteful” by families of the 96 Liverpool fans who died at the Sheffield stadium April 15, 1989.

 

In a dossier exposing the appalling attempts to blame Liverpool supporters for the deaths, the full extent of the force’s back-pedalling is laid bare for the first time after 23 years.

 

The report, compiled following a two-year investigation by an independent panel, found:

 

* up to 164 statements from officers were falsified or amended to shift blame from the police on to innocent supporters – with 116 having potentially damaging comments deleted.

 

* stricken fans, including children as young as 10, had their blood alcohol levels tested immediately after the fatal crushes to try to show they were drunk and out of control.

 

* checks were made on the police national computer of those who died in a desperate bid by police to see if they had criminal records “to impugn their reputations”.

 

* senior officers and Tory MP Irvine Patnick put forward damaging and wholly untrue allegations to a Sheffield news agency – infamously published in The Sun – that fans stole from the dead and urinated on police.

 

 

A copy of the report delivered by the Hillsborough Independent Panel at a press conference at the Liverpool's Anglican Cathedral

PA

 

 

South Yorkshire Chief Constable David Crompton admitted last night: “It is a damning report and I was shocked.

 

“I would offer my profound apologies to the families of the 96 and Liverpool fans as a whole. Statements were changed to try and make things better than they were and that is unacceptable at any level.”

 

He said he “stands ready” to help prosecute anyone who has broken the law. He added: “The cover-up has lasted for 23 years.”

 

Asked if the South Yorkshire force had blood on its hands he said: “In a manner of speaking, maybe. Yes, I think so.”

 

The report into how police responded in the aftermath of the disaster is damning.

 

It says: “They sought to deflect responsibility on to the Liverpool fans, presenting a case that emphasised exceptional levels of drunkenness and aggression, alleging many arrived at the stadium late, without tickets and determined to force entry. Beyond police accounts, there is no evidence of substance to support this view.”

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Even as distraught relatives were identifying the bodies of loved ones they were subjected to “insensitive, intrusive and irrelevant” questioning about their drinking habits, the report says.

 

Amid growing fears that police would come under public attack, then Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher was briefed on the situation following the publication of Lord Justice Taylor’s report, which rightly blamed the disaster on the police’s failure to exert control.

 

She was told “the defensive and at times close to deceitful” behaviour of senior cops in South Yorkshire Police “sounded depressingly familiar”. Just five years earlier Thatcher had used the same force to police the miners’ strike.

 

Suspicions remain that clear instructions were issued following the Thatcher briefing that the police were not to be held responsible – triggering the start of the cover-up. Asked about the existence of minutes from that

 

notorious meeting, Prof Phil Scraton, a member of the independent panel, said: “There is probably no such document.

 

“Her [Thatcher’s] press secretary Bernard Ingham said a tanked-up mob had forced its way into the stadium. But that was verbal information. To think it was committed to paper would be wrong.”

 

 

Remember: Memorial to the 96 outside Anfield

Christopher Furlong

 

 

David Cameron yesterday issued a profound apology on behalf the nation to the families of the 96. He said they had suffered a “double injustice” – the failure of authorities on the day and the “indefensible” cover-up that followed.

 

He told a hushed Commons the details of the report “completely took your breath away”.

 

He said: “With the weight of the new evidence in this report, it is right for me today as Prime Minister to make a proper apology to the families of the 96 for all they have suffered over the past 23 years.” Many MPs were in tears as he detailed how lives could have been saved and how the fans were vilified by the police.

 

He said it was “wrong” the families had to wait for so long for the truth and “wrong” that the police altered records and tried to blame the fans.

 

The PM condemned “the injustice of the denigration of the deceased – that they were somehow at fault for their own deaths”.

 

He added: “On behalf of the Government – and indeed our country – I am profoundly sorry for this double injustice that has been left uncorrected for so long.”

 

Leigh MP Andy Burnham said the report had revealed a “monumental cover-up” and a “sickening campaign of vilification against the victims”.

 

He said it exposed a “catalogue of negligence, appalling failure and sheer mendacity” in a tragedy that should have been prevented. Liverpool Walton MP Steve Rotheram added: “This shows the city was right – that there was a deliberate attempt to shift the blame and to instigate a cover-up at the very highest level.”

 

 

Shocking: Appalling scenes at Hillsborough

Mirrorpix

 

 

Margaret Aspinall, who lost her son James, 18, said: “I think what the families have been put through for 23 years has been an absolute disgrace.

 

“They [the police] were the liars and we were the truthful and innocent ones and it’s been proven today.

 

“The apology doesn’t make us feel better because we are still and always will be the losers at Hillsborough.” She added: “The families and supporters were the eyes, the ears, and by God, we were the voices and we used our voices to get to this stage and I’m so proud of all our families for that.”

 

South Yorkshire ambulance service, Sheffield Wednesday and the city’s council also apologised yesterday to relatives of the victims.

 

In a statement, Liverpool FC said: “The club commends the report and welcomes the Prime Minister’s apology to the families and survivors on behalf of the Government.

 

“After 23 long and painful years, our fans have finally been fully exonerated of all blame. Today, the world knows what we have always known – that Liverpool fans were not just innocent on that terrible day but that there was reprehensible and hurtful misrepresentation of the truth.”

 

Club chairman Tom Werner added: “We hope the findings will give some comfort to the families.”

 

Flowers, football shirts, scarves and teddy bears, were left near a memorial stone at Hillsborough yesterday.

 

And thousands of people gathered in Liverpool city centre last night for a vigil in memory of those who died.

 

Yesterday ex-Tory MP Sir Irvine Patnick refused to comment on calls for him to be stripped of his knighthood following his “shameful” comments after the disaster.

 

Sir Irvine is said to have suggested at the time that drunken Liverpool fans forced entry to the ground and contributed to the fatal crush – claims that have now been shown to be completely false.

[Paco]

Finally.

 

My niece was born on the 20th anniversary.

 

Today (well yesterday now) was her first day of school.

[ternando_forres]

I was just reading a witness statement and he says "I have sent my ticket to the Daily Mirror in London as they were requesting them" , just curious if anyone knew why they wanted them?

 

http://hillsborough.independent.gov.uk/repository/docs/SYP000000730001.pdf

[Guest ShoePiss]

I was just reading a witness statement and he says "I have sent my ticket to the Daily Mirror in London as they were requesting them" , just curious if anyone knew why they wanted them?

 

http://hillsborough.independent.gov.uk/repository/docs/SYP000000730001.pdf

 

Not sure but I remember so many fans didn't have their tickets checked and they remained intact, stub attached. Something to do with that?

[ternando_forres]

Not sure but I remember so many fans didn't have their tickets checked and they remained intact, stub attached. Something to do with that?

 

Yeah maybe, it just struck me as odd really

[Gav]

Horrendous

 

http://hillsborough.independent.gov.uk/repository/docs/NGN000000070001.pdf

 

 

Memo to news editor. London standard re – allegations over behaviour of liverpool fans at the hillsborough semi final. Story filed to you on april 18th.

 

The original storyfiled by us on the morning of april 18th led on angry police hitting out at liverpool fans who they said had hampered rescue attempts at the semi-final (our story catchlined ‘slam’).

 

During the afternoon of the 18th we received further information which was filed to you as the day progressed (catchlined pocket and patnick) adding allegations of fans stealing propert of the dead and later quotes from a leading mp backing up many of the police claims.

 

All the allegations in the stories we filed were made unsolicited by ranking officers in the south yorkshire force to three different experienced senior journalists who are partners in this agency. All four officers involved had been on duty at Hillsborough.

 

The first claims of bad behaviour came on the night of Saturday april 15th a few hours after the tragedy when one repporter met by chance a senior police officer he has known for many years.

 

Without (prompting?) the officer told him he had been punched and urinated on as he tried to save a dying victim at Hillsborough. The following day there was another chance meeting with a second officer who again without prompting said he had seen some fans behaving badly including attacking police and urinating on officers.

 

At this stage we felt it was not enough confirmation to send a story making such serious claims.

 

However, on Monday 17th another reporter met a third officer who volunteered information and re-iterated similar stories saying he seen police attacked and had been told of fans urinating down the terraces as police pulled away the dead and injured.

 

At that stage we felt we should tell the story and sent it out the following morning (Tue april 18th).

 

Later the same day a third reporter met a fourth officer he has known for many years who reported the allegations and added that liverpool supporters had been stealing from the dead. Though he had not seen it personally he said despite fingertip searches of the terracing alot of personal property belonging to the dead was missing and other officers had told him of pilfering.

 

We sent out the additional details plus a report by south yorkshire’s chief ambulance officer that one of his men was injured when attacked as he treated a fan on the pitch.

 

Further quotes were sent in a later story after we spoke to the tory mp for sheffield hallam irvine patnick. He said he had spoken to police officers on Saturday night who said they had been attacked and urinated on. He had not volunteered the information previously because he felt it would inflame a very sensitive situation.

 

We also added quotes from south yorkshire police federation secretary who said he had heard ‘terrible’ accounts of the behaviour of some fans.

 

In some respects we ‘watered down’ the allegations which included a report to us that liverpool fans seeing the uncovered breasts of a dead girl shouted ‘ pass her over here and we’ll f...her”

 

We felt we did as much as we could to check the authenticity of the story in the time available and reported faithfully what we were told.

 

Ends...

[polymerpunkah]

"If you repeat a lie often enough, it becomes the truth."

 

My profound respect for those--families, supporters and the few politicians--who refused to let that happen in this case.

 

Twenty-three years of relentless effort has at least, at last, produced the truth.

 

I hope Justice for the 96 is next.

 

YNWA

[Newport]

This so-called apology from the self-serving parasite MacKenzie is 'profoundly' rubbish. He couldn't stop himself from claiming to to be a victim of the cover-up.

[lifetime fan]

This so-called apology from the self-serving parasite MacKenzie is 'profoundly' rubbish. He couldn't stop himself from claiming to to be a victim of the cover-up.

 

 

Purely trying to save his career.