Hillsborough "The Search For Truth" 10.25pm

[RobbieOR]

That tweet is very strange.

[Frankenhooker]

Double edged sword could just mean that while the truth will come out, it'll still be extremely harrowing for the families involved, it could upset them even more.

 

Pointless thinking too much into it.

[RobbieOR]

Double edged sword could just mean that while the truth will come out, it'll still be extremely harrowing for the families involved, it could upset them even more.

 

Pointless thinking too much into it.

 

Yeah, I read it again and it does probably mean that. But with the lengths that they went to cover it up you dont really know.

[seamus o'lunacy]

Disagree on a couple of (relatively) minor points... not all fans went through the turnstiles A to G... some went through gates 1..16 and weren't counted in the HSE report (which only accounted for the A to G gates.

 

 

But it's probably as bad to attempt to deny it completely too. Rock and a hard place there.

 

Taylor said "some with terrace tickets were allowed through turnstiles 1 to 16 and there would be other similar factors.." Such as, for example, people with stand tickets entering via the leppings lane turnstiles or gate c?

 

The north stand turnstile count = the allocation.

The west stand turnstile count = the allocation.

The leppings lane stand (turnstile count under) hse count = the allocation.

 

The print outs were presented at the inquiry, discussed at the inquiry as too was an explanation of how the hse made their assesment.

 

With regard the latter statement. Its the 2nd time you've alluded there has been a denial. Perhaps you've confused what has been said in here or perhaps you'd care to share who exactly has denied something?

 

A repeat of this circular discussion to date. Someone asked how many people could be held on the leppings lane terrace. I said 10'100 and that the number of people counted in = the allocation.

 

I took 'yeah give or take a few hundred' as a dispute of that fact at best, and at worst, an insinuation of more entering than there should have been. Rather than concede the poor and casual choice of words, you've quibbled over the figures (two of which are considerably under and third 24 over) and cited taylor mentioning additional viarables but not the viarable equalisers. People with stand tickets entering via the gates or the leppings lane turnstiles.

 

Which takes us back to the collective turnstile figures and the head count equals the allocation =24k.

 

It really is indisputable but god loves a trier.

[Jose Jones]

Yeah, I read it again and it does probably mean that. But with the lengths that they went to cover it up you dont really know.

 

I think the report writers will have gone to some lengths to avoid pointing the finger at individuals and will also try to include "balance" hence there will be included stuff like "reports came in of drunk fans" "officers reported unruly behaviour" etc.

Then certain media outlets will focus on those bits, and there will be a general "the system" was to blame for the false reporting and subsequent confusion, rather than a deliberate cover up.

[Coro]

https://twitter.com/kitchentableLFC/status/245702110614802432/photo/1

[xerxes]

We have been conistently let down by bandwaggoning politicians and it seems Andy Burnham is the latest to join that line.

 

He claims that all fans knew that Hillsborough was unsafe. This is quite simply wrong. Hillsborough was amongst the more modern and safer grounds of the era, the Leppings Lane End way down the list of potential danger points. What was so shocking at the time was that it WAS the Leppings lane where it all went wrong. If it could have happened there it could have happened at the vast majority of football grounds at the time- given the circumstances.

 

It is so important that in our search for the truth now, the past is not distorted .

[mrw74]

I managed to watch both programmes last night and I can't begin to believe how those families must be feeling today. Lets just hope that they get the results that they want from the panel.

[robslappa]

We have been conistently let down by bandwaggoning politicians and it seems Andy Burnham is the latest to join that line.

 

He claims that all fans knew that Hillsborough was unsafe. This is quite simply wrong. Hillsborough was amongst the more modern and safer grounds of the era, the Leppings Lane End way down the list of potential danger points. What was so shocking at the time was that it WAS the Leppings lane where it all went wrong. If it could have happened there it could have happened at the vast majority of football grounds at the time- given the circumstances.

 

It is so important that in our search for the truth now, the past is not distorted .

 

Andy Burnham hasn't let us down at all. It's in part down to his efforts that the families are seeing disclosure of hidden documents at this very minute.

 

Plus, he's right about Hillsborough. It wasn't safe, there'd been incidents at semi finals in 1981 and 1987 and we also complained about overcrowding in 1988. People knew it wasn't safe, yet the FA still chose it as a semi final venue.

[Cliff T. Beast]

Coverage starts at 10 on LFCtv. Starts with the original debate in Commons and will be running all day

[JohnnyH]

I think the report writers will have gone to some lengths to avoid pointing the finger at individuals and will also try to include "balance" hence there will be included stuff like "reports came in of drunk fans" "officers reported unruly behaviour" etc.

Then certain media outlets will focus on those bits, and there will be a general "the system" was to blame for the false reporting and subsequent confusion, rather than a deliberate cover up.

 

I think that first part is correct.

 

That policeman in the BBC doc saying that they were hit with a few coins from the upper level as they tried to remove injured fans form the lower level. He might be telling the truth. Sadly, even in such horrific events, there are bellends out there. If stuff like that is mentioned and there is proof of it, then we as fans shouldn’t dwell on it. What’s more important is the cut off time of 3:15, what was said to try and absolve the police and Sheffield Wednesday FC of all blame, and the overall confirmation of a cover-up and the absolute confirmation that Liverpool fans played no part in this disaster whatsoever.

 

If you want a 100% full and factual report on every aspect of the day, then be prepared for the fact that amongst 15,00-20,00 people there will be a few pricks. There’ll be pricks at every single ground in the country this weekend just like very weekend.

 

However, I think there is an appetite out there in the press to show an institutional cover-up. If anything it’s much better press.

[Gonzo]

We have been conistently let down by bandwaggoning politicians and it seems Andy Burnham is the latest to join that line.

 

That is a truly sickening comment and one which you should apologise for, or at least correct. Appalling.

[Gym Beglin]

I just hope that McKenzie gets dragged out of hiding and is made to face up to 'the truth'.

[A.V.B.]

[SCOUSE TAPAS]

The Everton club shop today.

 

 

[Tony Moanero]

The Everton club shop today.

 

 

 

Ace.

[Faustus]

I hope the families finally get the answers they're after today. 23 years is far too long.

 

Justice for the 96.

[SCOUSE TAPAS]

Club Statement.

 

PUBLISHED

09:34 12th September 2012

 

Sheffield Wednesday FC welcomes the release of the Hillsborough Independent Panel report and would like to acknowledge the enormous amount of hard work by all involved during what was, and continues to be, an extremely emotive process.

 

Throughout the compilation stage, the club has worked closely with the panel and the other donating organisations to ensure that, in line with the ethos of maximum disclosure, we have been totally transparent.

 

Sheffield Wednesday would also like to record its gratitude for the thoroughly dignified manner with which the Hillsborough Family Support Group and its representatives conducted themselves throughout all levels of consultation with the club.

 

Since the acquisition of Sheffield Wednesday Football Club in December 2010 and the subsequent decision of the previous board to dissolve the former parent company Sheffield Wednesday PLC , chairman Milan Mandaric and the current board of directors have adopted a policy of complete compliance with the requests of the Hillsborough Independent Panel and on behalf of the club would like to offer our sincere condolences and an apology to all the families who have suffered as a consequence of the tragic events of 15 April, 1989.

 

We can only hope that the publication of the Hillsborough Independent Panel report goes some way to providing the closure sought by all those involved.

 

The thoughts of everyone at Sheffield Wednesday FC remain with the 96 Liverpool supporters who lost their lives, their families, and the wider Liverpool community who have all been affected so deeply by the disaster of 23 years ago.

[JoeyJones65]

Luke Traynor ‏@LTraynorMirror

 

Being told revelations are monumental. Families have stood up and applauded the panel in cathedral

[The Golden Eel]

That double edged sword comment from Evans is concerning.

 

I take that to mean that there will be actual evidence that people could and should have survived.

[FanchesterCity]

There's been (as ever) some great insights on Talksport today... but....

 

A couple of folks say "This was a Liverpool tragedy". I have to choose my words carefully here, of course, but therein lies much of the problem. That phrase promotes a very insular point of view and enforces the isolation...

 

It was a national tragedy. Those fans just happened to support Liverpool. I think that's really important for all non Liverpool fans to grasp, and it whilst I understand the sentiment behind the phrase, I think it needs to be avoided where possible.

 

Many 'onlookers' still have a niggling feeling that it HAD to happen to Liverpool... since they were a prime example of the 'loutish behaviour'. That's a very tainted view, but it's quite commonly held. I believe we should all be doing what we can to explain to others how it might have been Maine Road, or Old Trafford, or Stamford Bridge etc etc. Even if the ends had been changed, it would most likely have resulted in the deaths of Nottingham Forest fans - since it's well documented that the turnstile throughput wasn't even close to being adequate, and signage at the ground, and on the tickets was very poor and in some cases a genuine contributor to the problems.

 

I'm not trying to diminish the grief across Liverpool, just trying to widen the relevance to ALL fans. Justice for the 96 is not about 'victim culture of Liverpudlians', it's about a NATIONAL injustice.

[Harry Squatter]

What time is the report due to be released?

 

Was skeptical about what will actually be revealed as the families have been kicked in the teeth so many times. Hopefully judging by the above post they will get some answers.

 

Twenty three Years of living hell for them.

[TheHitman]

I just hope that McKenzie gets dragged out of hiding and is made to face up to 'the truth'.

 

It could well lead to Duckenfield hopefully being convicted of criminal charges even that Bettison.

 

Tony Evans ‏@TonyEvansTimes

 

Ancient history? Norman Bettison, chief constable of SY and head of MSide police then appears to have been at meetings to discuss strategy

[JoeyJones65]

Jim Boardman ‏@JimBoardman

 

#HIP. Norman Bettison (ex chief const M/side) in Police Fed meetings that were part of strategy to deflect blame onto fans, inc Sun lies

[Acid]

So the files are being released to the press any minute now, does that mean the public too?