Incompetence & mismanagement of the highest level

[Jose Jones]

The 90's - especially the last half-which is where the modern game was born (and we missed out at every level - read again what you have stated about on the field). Everything else is after the cat was out of the bag. That is my point it goes well before any of the convenient fall guys.

 

Well I completely disagree with your point then!

 

Souness was a pretty terrible manager, and Roy Evans had some critical weaknesses. However the support by the club for those managers was fine, even if the decisions to appoint them were in hindsight a mistake.

 

The club gave the managers time, and funded record signings. Peter Robinson was in control for most of the decade and the club had Steve Heighway running the academy bringing through some good young players.

On the pitch we suffered from managerial mistakes, but the structure of the club to support the football side was good and steady.

[Whelan]

Well I completely disagree with your point then!

 

Souness was a pretty terrible manager, and Roy Evans had some critical weaknesses. However the support by the club for those managers was fine, even if the decisions to appoint them were in hindsight a mistake.

 

The club gave the managers time, and funded record signings. Peter Robinson was in control for most of the decade and the club had Steve Heighway running the academy bringing through some good young players.

On the pitch we suffered from managerial mistakes, but the structure of the club to support the football side was good and steady.

 

It is far easier to give support and time to a manager who by and large has the team in the top 4 most of the season ala Evans, Ged and Rafa! It is difficult to do so when we are floundering near the bottom (as with Roy) and mid table (as with Kenny). Because that is when you really start to analyse what you are paying and what you are getting in return.

 

I think your point about getting back to supporting rather than antagonising is right, we seem to be at odds about everything at the moment. Which is one of the reasons why I can understand not wanting to bring Rafa back.

 

Regarding Heighway I actually think he epitomises the problem. If we accept the premise that Gerrard, Owen and Fowler would have made it anyway then he needed to be judged on the amount of Carraghers he produced and the fact seems to be that he didn't produce any from 97 onwards yet he remained in the job for another ten years (ish). Look at what has been achieved in the 2 or 3 years since and you can suddenly see how wrong it was to allow Heighway that time.

[Code]

Rafa Benitez.

 

Shakes head.

[Guest Numero Veinticinco]

Rafa Benitez.

 

Shakes head.

 

Rafa Benitez. That name rings a bell. Is it this guy:

 

[ZonkoVille77]

Rafa Benitez.

 

Shakes head.

 

Just can't help yourself can you? Mental.

Has achieved more than you ever will in your lifetime anyhow and for that alone he should be respected.

[setreal]

Rafa Benitez.

 

*shakes hips*

[Code]

Rafa mongs.

 

Shakes head.

[Brownie]

Weirdo's.

[Trumo]

Rafa Benitez.

 

*shakes hips*

 

[YOUTUBE]LFKXHFciNUk[/YOUTUBE]

 

Did he make mistakes tactically? Yes.

Did he make mistakes in the transfer market? Absolutely.

Did he allow all the off-field problems distract him and take his eye off the ball? Without a doubt.

Is he blameless for his demise? No.

 

All our managers have done the first two, even when they were hugely successful, because nobody has a 100% success rate tactically or in the transfer market.

 

We've had to my knowledge, 4 managers that have struggled to distance themselves from off-field distractions and get on with managing the club. Joe Fagan was so distraught by events at Heysel that he stepped down. Kenny struggled to cope with the emotional weight of Hillsborough (to class that as an off-field distraction is the wrong choice of phrase I know) and stepped down. In his second spell we had the whole Suarez debacle. Rafa had to deal with an ownership regime that turned the club toxic. Hodgson was here in the final throes of that toxic regime ans was perhaps made to get on with the job with one hand tied. That, through his own words and decisions, he chose to tie his other hand too is his own fault.

 

Since the early 90s, we've gone from too patient and indecisive to impatient and decisive in the wrong way with rushed decisions. At some point, even if the solution is merely stumbled upon, we have to get the balance right.

[DontTreadOnMe]

Until BR has direct control over the choice of transfers targets and is able to provide the impetus to finish deals quickly, we are wide open to the August 31st clusterf**k being repeated. In fairness to him, FSG's obsession with getting the wage bill down at all costs and their unwillingness to back him financially to get in the players he required (Sigurdsson, Dempsey and God knows who else) basically removed the ground from under his feet. My read is that he trusted FSG and their puppet Ayre to arrive Dempsy as a sort of replacement for Carroll and they did a number on him. Agreed, it would have been prudent to have an alternative for Dempsy lined up as the days of the window ticked down, but this failure might also be placed at the feet of FSG's cost-cutting antics.

 

The jury is sensibly still out on Rodgers but I'm thinking that it's just about to return a 'guilty' verdict on the current owners.

[xerxes]

Until BR has direct control over the choice of transfers targets and is able to provide the impetus to finish deals quickly, we are wide open to the August 31st clusterf**k being repeated.

Firstly, no manager has such control.

 

Secondly, would you give that type of control to a manager with only three seasons management behind them anyway?

[Biscao]

Firstly, no manager has such control.

 

Secondly, would you give that type of control to a manager with only three seasons management behind them anyway?

 

I think most people would be happy so long as somebody not being Ian Ayre, located in the UK or even Europe was in control.

[shaunstrudwick]

a director of football and a David Dein-esque CEO is what FSG need to implement to give stability at the club

 

they cannot run the club from overseas and they cannot run the club by commitee

 

appoint key people who you will then entrust to run the club based on your guidelines

 

that Rodgers thinks he can manipulate all aspects of the transfer side of things is defo shades of Rafa and i don't like it

 

all Rodgers can expect is to be backed by the board - and equally the board should back him - which they did (Joe Allen and Borini#) and were going to back him further given that they were prepared to spend £15m on Sturridge* [which Rodgers vetoed cos he wanted Dempsey]

 

i think FSG are going about things in the right way and Rodgers created the whole transfer mess himself this summer with his treatment of Carroll (seeing him as a cash cow) - and also trying to cash in Agger to free up some more funds

 

letting Carroll go 'early' to West Ham was brinksmanship on Rodgers part and hopefully something in hindsight he realises was wrong

 

i like Rodgers' ideas on the pitch and i think he defo has a plan as to how he wants us to play - but he should leave the boardroom stuff well alone there as he will only lose

 

*to my mind £15m for Sturridge wasn't a ridiculous price and he would've fitted in well on the right of a front 3

 

#Borini is the one i don't get - what does Rodgers see in him?

[silverlining]

 

were going to back him further given that they were prepared to spend £15m on Sturridge* [which Rodgers vetoed cos he wanted Dempsey]

 

i think FSG are going about things in the right way and Rodgers created the whole transfer mess himself this summer with his treatment of Carroll (seeing him as a cash cow) - and also trying to cash in Agger to free up some more funds

 

 

Is this stuff all now accepted as fact in your head?

[shaunstrudwick]

Evans and Barrett have confirmed that there was money there to be spent on deadline day and we fucked up our target(s)

 

the treatment of Carroll by Rodgers is well documented

 

whether it FSG or Rodgers who were looking to cash in on Agger I don't for 'fact' - but he was offered to City

[TheHowieLama]

Well I completely disagree with your point then!

 

Souness was a pretty terrible manager, and Roy Evans had some critical weaknesses. However the support by the club for those managers was fine, even if the decisions to appoint them were in hindsight a mistake.

 

The club gave the managers time, and funded record signings. Peter Robinson was in control for most of the decade and the club had Steve Heighway running the academy bringing through some good young players.

On the pitch we suffered from managerial mistakes, but the structure of the club to support the football side was good and steady.

 

I think you missed the point and then illustrated it by your response. The support of managers with any critical weakness is not a good thing - if hindsight shows they were a mistake it is all the worse, more lazy than sage. A run of ten years with a league cup and an FA cup to show for it is abysmal. A decade where we averaged lower than 5th? When the quality of the league was diluted? The performance of the team - on the field - was not good. Heighway has been shown to have been a dinosaur - set off by a couple mercurial talents. The 90s is the decade we ceased to be a power in English football both on and off the pitch - how can you not see that?

[redsoxs]

a director of football and a David Dein-esque CEO is what FSG need to implement to give stability at the club

 

they cannot run the club from overseas and they cannot run the club by commitee

 

appoint key people who you will then entrust to run the club based on your guidelines

 

that Rodgers thinks he can manipulate all aspects of the transfer side of things is defo shades of Rafa and i don't like it

 

all Rodgers can expect is to be backed by the board - and equally the board should back him - which they did (Joe Allen and Borini#) and were going to back him further given that they were prepared to spend £15m on Sturridge* [which Rodgers vetoed cos he wanted Dempsey]

 

i think FSG are going about things in the right way and Rodgers created the whole transfer mess himself this summer with his treatment of Carroll (seeing him as a cash cow) - and also trying to cash in Agger to free up some more funds

 

letting Carroll go 'early' to West Ham was brinksmanship on Rodgers part and hopefully something in hindsight he realises was wrong

 

i like Rodgers' ideas on the pitch and i think he defo has a plan as to how he wants us to play - but he should leave the boardroom stuff well alone there as he will only lose

 

*to my mind £15m for Sturridge wasn't a ridiculous price and he would've fitted in well on the right of a front 3

 

#Borini is the one i don't get - what does Rodgers see in him?

 

You're not the only one with them views lad....

 

As for Borini, i think he was bought as third choice striker, because of Rodgers fuckup, he's been forced into first choice.