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What does LFC have to do to be great again??

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I think the original club philosophy that Shankly brought to the club, continued by Bob Paisley, then Joe Fagan ( a legacy based on an ideal) has been slowly eroded. It was a boot room mentality, but it belonged to another era. Also, The move all to seating stadiums, showed us to be short of funds or short sighted when it came to revamping to get the gate receipts up. We should have moved quickly to ensure that when we went all seated, we went up to about 55,000-60,000. Income without debt is everything!! However, there were technicalities. It didn't seem to be possible at the time.

 

Footballers have changed too. Look at Kenny's attitude, compared to players today. The club was everything, but now the club is secondary to personal wealth ( a generalisation, yes, but you catch my drift.)

 

How to change it? Build a team of LIVERPOOL players, with a LIVERPOOL manager, and forget about 'what we're supposed to be accomplishing' and start enjoying the ride again, along The Liverpool Way.

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And get some plastic flags in while we're at it.

 

Why. Footballs gone this way, I'd say if any club had earned the right to compete for the best players it's us. I don't like the fact this is the way it is but it is. Gillet and hicks diminshed the squad so badly that alongside poor spending fucked us up the ass. I don't feel guilty or Somehow less of a fan for wanting us to be able to spend big and get back to where we belong.

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Stick to the ethic of quality football with players who want to play it, and more importantly want to play it for Liverpool (not easily done, but I think it's Liverpool's ethic through and through, in theory).... BUT... accept that that alone is no longer enough (and perhaps it never was).

 

I believe once upon a time, getting the football 'right' resulted in getting the club as a business 'right', but the tables have turned to the point where getting the business right is more likely to result in making the football right.

 

Admittedly, City aren't the same size or stature of Liverpool, but we've been a prime example of a shambles off field outfit. In fact, the vast majority of clubs, of varying statures are similar. It doesn't really matter who your are, clubs have gone from the frying pan of local hero businessmen running clubs to the frying pan of speculative investors (some of whom are winners, and some are losers).

 

Liverpool have the brand, the history, the 'story to tell' and have failed to exploit that to the full potential. Whilst it's diminished in recent years, it's still head and shoulders above most clubs and still holds a fantastic amount of opportunity.

 

The stadium dithering leaves the club looking neither progressive, nor firmly rooted - it's just indecisive (accepting there are reasons for that, but still...)

 

I've not seen enough from FSG to suggest they have the financial clout to get Liverpool back on a seriously solid footing on the pitch (sad that it needs money, but I believe it does), and in the absence of that clout, I've not seen any real signs of cunning business acumen either, but in their defence, it's probably a 5 year project. If it fails, Liverpool will have slipped back further.

 

It feels like Liverpool are right on the tipping point. Where FSG might prove to be clueless charlatans, or sharp as a tack. Either you've already hit the bottom and are just about to rise again, or... the decline continues.

 

All in all, Liverpool have enough ingredients to bake one seriously impressive cake, and you're blessed with SOME ingredients few other clubs have. You just need the right chefs.

 

Good post but what worries me is those ingredients you write about diminish year by year,i live in a small northwest town with no football club to call its own and looking back no more than ten years ago kids would be dressed in either Man u or Liverpool strips.These days chelsea have a fair few followers judging by what the kids a wearing and dare I say even a few Man City shirts are cropping up,You can only live on past glories for so long ,I'm sure Notts Forest used to sell a fair amount of kits too in its time.Feels like were teatering on the brink to me.

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Repututations on the bonfire time.

 

That for me is key.

 

If Rodgers wants to get things right on the pitch its something we have to start doing as a club. Players who arn't good enough shouldn't be getting games.

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I'm 24 years old and started going the match properly with my old man in about '96, so I obviously haven't seen us win the league. I do, though, have an unshakeable belief that I will see us get one win day. It has to be the aim for everybody associated with the club. I'm not having it that the only way these days to get it is to have some sugar daddy splashing the cash. It's obviously an enormous advantage, but they can't buy every player under the sun. I'm also of the belief that while we can't outspend the likes of City and Chelsea, we can at least spend what we have better than them.

 

Looking at the Dortmund side that has won the league the past two years on the bounce, there's absolutely no reason why we couldn't have attracted any of those players. Kagawa was from some no mark Japanese second division side, Hummes was plucked from Bayern's reserves and I think that Lewandowski lad was from the Polish league. There is quality out there available at a half decent price if you look around. Newcastle did a cracking job of it last season. There was no reason at all we couldn't have signed players like Cabaye and Cisse, and both would have walked (still, actually) into our side last year.

 

The past 20 years, we've been fucking abysmal in the market, by and large. I remember reading a post from WaltonRed on here when he said that 'for every William Prunier, Massimo Taibi or Eric Djemba-Djemba the Mancs sign, we sign three or four.' Absolutely spot on.

 

Hicks and Gillett obviously fucked the club up and left us with barely a pot to piss in but even as far back as Roy Evans' tenure, we were fucking hopeless. I remember him wanting to bring in Teddy Sheringham and Marcel Desailly one summer after we had a decent-ish crack at the title but finished fourth after a collapse in the last two or three games. Instead of pushing the boat out and making a real statement of intent, the board sat with their thumbs up their arses and got him an over the hill Karlheinz Riedle and despite it being blatantly obvious we needed a centre half, we waited halfway through the season and brought in the abomination that was Bjorn Tore Kvarme. Sheringham and Desailly obviously went to the Mancs and Chelsea respectively and put pots in their trophy cabinet. Not good enough.

 

Obviously some have had more success than others, but Rafa, Houllier, Evans, Hodgson and Kenny have all had moments in the market which have just baffled, quite simply. I don't think we've ever cottoned onto how important pace is in this league because I can't remember us signing a player who's been like shit off a shovel. Torres, maybe, but I think his greatest asset was his ability to go up the gears when faced with a defender, rather than straight out the blocks- the type who make teams playing with a high line absolutely shit themselves. I can't even remember us ever buying a decent winger in that time either. I would have thought watching the Mancs hoover up title after title for 20 years with wingers who stretch the play would have made the penny drop with people.

 

To be honest, this club has dillied and dallied for twenty years. The leadership at the top has been just awful and lacking in direction. Moores was soft as shite and never had the bollocks to be the man in charge in such a cut-throat sport. Hicks and Gillett were just poisionous. It's still relativey early days for FSG, but while I'm not exactly marching past the Sandon with an American flag alight, I do have a couple of reservations.

 

To be fair to FSG, one thing they've at least down well is exploiting Liverpool as a global entity- something which we've failed to do for 20 years. In my opinion, there are four genuine worldwide footballing behemoths. There's Barcelona, there's Real Madrid, there's the Mancs and there's us. Nobody else comes close. I went travelling around America for a little bit the other year and one thing which surprised me was that for a country where football has never really been embraced the way it has around the world, every second person I met mentioned 'the soccer team' as well as The Beatles when I said I was from Liverpool. It's something which took me aback and reaffirmed my view. At least on that front we seem to be getting our act together, but it's been 20 years too late. I remember one of my cousins who lives in Belgium having a kid and my grandad wanted to buy him some Liverpool baby gear. This was late 90s/ early 00s, and my grandad went to the club shop and seen his arse because there was fuck all in. Compare and contrast that with the Mancs who have been splashing their ugly crest on everything ever since the Premiership came into being.

 

Apologies for the ramble and if I've gone off on a tangent, but my head's still battered after yesterday!

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Been saying it for months. The Suarez case should have been the wake up call. Wholesale changes were needed but all FSG have done is alter the window dressing.

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I'm 24 years old and started going the match properly with my old man in about '96, so I obviously haven't seen us win the league. I do, though, have an unshakeable belief that I will see us get one win day. It has to be the aim for everybody associated with the club. I'm not having it that the only way these days to get it is to have some sugar daddy splashing the cash. It's obviously an enormous advantage, but they can't buy every player under the sun. I'm also of the belief that while we can't outspend the likes of City and Chelsea, we can at least spend what we have better than them.

 

Looking at the Dortmund side that has won the league the past two years on the bounce, there's absolutely no reason why we couldn't have attracted any of those players. Kagawa was from some no mark Japanese second division side, Hummes was plucked from Bayern's reserves and I think that Lewandowski lad was from the Polish league. There is quality out there available at a half decent price if you look around. Newcastle did a cracking job of it last season. There was no reason at all we couldn't have signed players like Cabaye and Cisse, and both would have walked (still, actually) into our side last year.

 

The past 20 years, we've been fucking abysmal in the market, by and large. I remember reading a post from WaltonRed on here when he said that 'for every William Prunier, Massimo Taibi or Eric Djemba-Djemba the Mancs sign, we sign three or four.' Absolutely spot on.

 

Hicks and Gillett obviously fucked the club up and left us with barely a pot to piss in but even as far back as Roy Evans' tenure, we were fucking hopeless. I remember him wanting to bring in Teddy Sheringham and Marcel Desailly one summer after we had a decent-ish crack at the title but finished fourth after a collapse in the last two or three games. Instead of pushing the boat out and making a real statement of intent, the board sat with their thumbs up their arses and got him an over the hill Karlheinz Riedle and despite it being blatantly obvious we needed a centre half, we waited halfway through the season and brought in the abomination that was Bjorn Tore Kvarme. Sheringham and Desailly obviously went to the Mancs and Chelsea respectively and put pots in their trophy cabinet. Not good enough.

 

Obviously some have had more success than others, but Rafa, Houllier, Evans, Hodgson and Kenny have all had moments in the market which have just baffled, quite simply. I don't think we've ever cottoned onto how important pace is in this league because I can't remember us signing a player who's been like shit off a shovel. Torres, maybe, but I think his greatest asset was his ability to go up the gears when faced with a defender, rather than straight out the blocks- the type who make teams playing with a high line absolutely shit themselves. I can't even remember us ever buying a decent winger in that time either. I would have thought watching the Mancs hoover up title after title for 20 years with wingers who stretch the play would have made the penny drop with people.

 

To be honest, this club has dillied and dallied for twenty years. The leadership at the top has been just awful and lacking in direction. Moores was soft as shite and never had the bollocks to be the man in charge in such a cut-throat sport. Hicks and Gillett were just poisionous. It's still relativey early days for FSG, but while I'm not exactly marching past the Sandon with an American flag alight, I do have a couple of reservations.

 

To be fair to FSG, one thing they've at least down well is exploiting Liverpool as a global entity- something which we've failed to do for 20 years. In my opinion, there are four genuine worldwide footballing behemoths. There's Barcelona, there's Real Madrid, there's the Mancs and there's us. Nobody else comes close. I went travelling around America for a little bit the other year and one thing which surprised me was that for a country where football has never really been embraced the way it has around the world, every second person I met mentioned 'the soccer team' as well as The Beatles when I said I was from Liverpool. It's something which took me aback and reaffirmed my view. At least on that front we seem to be getting our act together, but it's been 20 years too late. I remember one of my cousins who lives in Belgium having a kid and my grandad wanted to buy him some Liverpool baby gear. This was late 90s/ early 00s, and my grandad went to the club shop and seen his arse because there was fuck all in. Compare and contrast that with the Mancs who have been splashing their ugly crest on everything ever since the Premiership came into being.

 

Apologies for the ramble and if I've gone off on a tangent, but my head's still battered after yesterday!

 

Nice post , the comical leadership off the field for the last 20 odd years thats the saddest and most frustrating thing of all when you look at it , if we had just had capable competent people in charge at the top it would of been so so different , just looking at what the Mancs have achieved in that time tells you that.

 

Also the winger thing aswell , dont think any of us get it , it boggles the mind why we never seem to want pacy skillful wingers in our side , praying Sterling bucks that trend.

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Even by the standards of this forum, this is wacky beyond belief.

 

Wacky, as I described it, gets you CL. CL gets you on the track of being great again. Benitez more often than not gets CL football, a combination of his and Rodgers' football eventually gets you PL, if the owners support it.

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Delmar with the fucking worst idea in history.

 

Seriously, invading Russia, and having a two-front battle... was a fucking better idea than this shit.

 

Uncle Adolf used to tell me that he was right when I was a kid, and I laughed... Anyway, look at the situation now. Who rules Europe? Oh and grow up and skip the stupid negs. They are for kids and retards like Code.

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I think that there are some bad decisions from the end of the Benitez time still affecting the club that he will not look very tempting to the owners, despite his obvious success and pedigree.

FSG need to initially concentrate on those things they can control. Putting an executive team in place that understands business and football, which minimises the risk of future and further mistakes. The resignation of Segura has again shown their weakness in this area. We seem to just currently have Ian Ayre and Brendan Rodgers trying to do everything. Unless Rodgers is a one off amazing genius, that isn't going to work.

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I'm 24 years old and started going the match properly with my old man in about '96, so I obviously haven't seen us win the league. I do, though, have an unshakeable belief that I will see us get one win day. It has to be the aim for everybody associated with the club. I'm not having it that the only way these days to get it is to have some sugar daddy splashing the cash. It's obviously an enormous advantage, but they can't buy every player under the sun. I'm also of the belief that while we can't outspend the likes of City and Chelsea, we can at least spend what we have better than them.

 

Looking at the Dortmund side that has won the league the past two years on the bounce, there's absolutely no reason why we couldn't have attracted any of those players. Kagawa was from some no mark Japanese second division side, Hummes was plucked from Bayern's reserves and I think that Lewandowski lad was from the Polish league. There is quality out there available at a half decent price if you look around. Newcastle did a cracking job of it last season. There was no reason at all we couldn't have signed players like Cabaye and Cisse, and both would have walked (still, actually) into our side last year.

 

The past 20 years, we've been fucking abysmal in the market, by and large. I remember reading a post from WaltonRed on here when he said that 'for every William Prunier, Massimo Taibi or Eric Djemba-Djemba the Mancs sign, we sign three or four.' Absolutely spot on.

 

Hicks and Gillett obviously fucked the club up and left us with barely a pot to piss in but even as far back as Roy Evans' tenure, we were fucking hopeless. I remember him wanting to bring in Teddy Sheringham and Marcel Desailly one summer after we had a decent-ish crack at the title but finished fourth after a collapse in the last two or three games. Instead of pushing the boat out and making a real statement of intent, the board sat with their thumbs up their arses and got him an over the hill Karlheinz Riedle and despite it being blatantly obvious we needed a centre half, we waited halfway through the season and brought in the abomination that was Bjorn Tore Kvarme. Sheringham and Desailly obviously went to the Mancs and Chelsea respectively and put pots in their trophy cabinet. Not good enough.

 

Obviously some have had more success than others, but Rafa, Houllier, Evans, Hodgson and Kenny have all had moments in the market which have just baffled, quite simply. I don't think we've ever cottoned onto how important pace is in this league because I can't remember us signing a player who's been like shit off a shovel. Torres, maybe, but I think his greatest asset was his ability to go up the gears when faced with a defender, rather than straight out the blocks- the type who make teams playing with a high line absolutely shit themselves. I can't even remember us ever buying a decent winger in that time either. I would have thought watching the Mancs hoover up title after title for 20 years with wingers who stretch the play would have made the penny drop with people.

 

To be honest, this club has dillied and dallied for twenty years. The leadership at the top has been just awful and lacking in direction. Moores was soft as shite and never had the bollocks to be the man in charge in such a cut-throat sport. Hicks and Gillett were just poisionous. It's still relativey early days for FSG, but while I'm not exactly marching past the Sandon with an American flag alight, I do have a couple of reservations.

 

To be fair to FSG, one thing they've at least down well is exploiting Liverpool as a global entity- something which we've failed to do for 20 years. In my opinion, there are four genuine worldwide footballing behemoths. There's Barcelona, there's Real Madrid, there's the Mancs and there's us. Nobody else comes close. I went travelling around America for a little bit the other year and one thing which surprised me was that for a country where football has never really been embraced the way it has around the world, every second person I met mentioned 'the soccer team' as well as The Beatles when I said I was from Liverpool. It's something which took me aback and reaffirmed my view. At least on that front we seem to be getting our act together, but it's been 20 years too late. I remember one of my cousins who lives in Belgium having a kid and my grandad wanted to buy him some Liverpool baby gear. This was late 90s/ early 00s, and my grandad went to the club shop and seen his arse because there was fuck all in. Compare and contrast that with the Mancs who have been splashing their ugly crest on everything ever since the Premiership came into being.

 

Apologies for the ramble and if I've gone off on a tangent, but my head's still battered after yesterday!

 

No need for apologies my friend, that was a great and insightful post.

 

I tend to agree with most of your points, the pace thing not being so much a disagreement as a caveat. I don't think it's overall pace that's important so much as the ability to quickly turn it up a notch and outpace people for about 10-15 yards. Some players have that, some have just the long haul and some have both. Obviously both is better but not necessary in terms of necessity I'd say the ability to accelerate quickly and burn someone over a short distance is favorable to being able to beat someone in a footrace from one side of the pitch to the other.

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The sad, short answer to the thread title question is this: money.

 

It's unfortunate, and I admire FSG for at least rolling the dice with Rodgers (and of course I hope they're successful), but I'm slowly coming around to the idea that until we're bought out by a rich billionaire who wants to throw money at our problems, we're unlikely to ever win the league.

 

Unlikely is not the same as won't, so I'll keep hoping in my heart that we find a way to do it, but I honestly wonder if a team that isn't in the top 3 or 4 in spending can do it any more. Especially without the CL we're miles away from winning the league, and at the present moment we're miles away from the level it would take to get into the CL.

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If Liverpool want to be great again they need to have a clear footballing philosophy and stick to it even if at first things are going tits up.

 

Look at our recent past;

Get a manager.

Managers bins a whole heap of the previous managers signings.

Managers buys a whole heap of players that fit HIS vision.

Things don't work out.

Manager sacked.

 

Get a manager.

Managers bins a whole heap of the previous managers signings.

Managers buys a whole heap of players that fit HIS vision.

Things don't work out.

Manager sacked.

 

Rinse and repeat.

 

We need to have a clear vision that is in place regardless of the manager who is in charge so if a manager is removed the players that are bought in that time are still in place when a new manager comes in.

You have consistancy of football, consistancy players and consistancy of vision.

The turnover of players in the last 10 years is ridiculous and if you asked a fan who wasn't a Liverpool supporter who the stars of Liverpool they would probably name no more than two players.

 

We aren't going to buy our way to the top so we have to nurture youth and have a clear footballing vision and stick to it even when there are teething problems at first.

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I remember one of my cousins who lives in Belgium having a kid and my grandad wanted to buy him some Liverpool baby gear. This was late 90s/ early 00s, and my grandad went to the club shop and seen his arse because there was fuck all in. Compare and contrast that with the Mancs who have been splashing their ugly crest on everything ever since the Premiership came into being.

 

I remember the Treble 2001 season review, it was only available on VHS for ages?! I couldn't buy it because I didn't have one, I dunno if that many people did late 2001

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I'm 24 years old and started going the match properly with my old man in about '96, so I obviously haven't seen us win the league.............

A very astute post in full.

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I'd be paying Dein pretty much whatever it takes to get him here.

 

Wasting your time mate.

FSG do not want someone dictating football matters to them even though they've got fuck all knowledge.

Why do you think they went for Rodgers when there was a hatful of experienced tactical managers available at the time. So they can tell him when to shit and he won't argue the toss, same with Hodgson under cancer and AIDS.

They don't want someone with football nous in the boardroom telling them when the sun is up. They got burnt with Commoli and have shit out of the idea.

In the long term its going to cost us. Big.

Would a Dein or a technical director have allowed the Allen transfer or at the very least haggled down the price, they'd either have squashed it or got the price down.

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A return to greatness may only be possible after FSG- not during their tenure. The club needs investment in the side now, over and beyond what we generate, to compete at the top, and the FSG model does not allow for that. Our long term success depends on a larger, all modern stadium ( not a half in half bodge job), FSG’s model again does not provide for that.

 

Those who point to Dortmund’s success are right to do so. It is a Board run by Germans steeped in knowledge of the country, the club and the game.

 

FSG have been our saviours, for which I will always be grateful, they won’t lead us into Rangersesque meltdown either, but success at the top requires cash and knowledge in spades. Bith continue to be AWOL under FSG.

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If FSG really wanted money ball football, they would have gotten Rafa back. Simple as

 

Look at all the money generated from all Rafa's players. Alonso, Mascherano, Torres. Besides Suarez, the only other players worth anything if sold are Reina, Skrtel, Agger and Lucas.

 

Everyone knows that Gerrard and Carra probably won't be worth much these days. We know that most of Dalglish's buys besides Suarez won't be worth half what we paid for. I am also certain Allen and Borini at most can be sold at the same price we paid for them.

 

Even if they get Rafa back now, it will take years rebuilding again, now that we've lost the majority of his good players. Even the players that could be relied on to save our skin in tough games, like Kuyt, Maxi and Benayoun are gone.

 

Sad, but the last time we could have turned things around was when Dalglish first got in. We should have kept Mereiles and kept using Maxi and Kuyt with Suarez and built on that pass and move style. Dalglish's buys last season were a disaster, buy British indeed.

 

Alonso, Torres, Mascherano, a prime Gerrard, Reina, Skrtel, Agger.... I don't think we will see the likes of their quality again. I am happy we somehow got Suarez, but with additions like Allen and Borini to play the great Swansea way, we won't be seeing him in red for long.

 

I knew it was a mistake the moment we got a manager that the press agrees with. Its Hodgson all over again, with all the tiki taka hype (as if he created the style). Fuck we played possession football under Rafa too you know, and we too struggled with lots of possession but not the goals, until we got Torres. Its the same story all over again, but with inferior players.

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Hire someone who can show our entire front line how to hit the back of the net. It sounds far too simple, but I remember we used to do that a lot in the 80s, and we won things. Ian Rush and Robbie Fowler are working for the club in some capacity - I think that capacity should be as goal-scoring coach.

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The main problem is we started falling behind under Moores when the financial boom and the commercial side of football took off. We have been severely and still are crippled to some extent since Gillett and Hicks. Think they, the owners, have been looking at clubs like Dortmund and Arsenal for that matter in some regards. They have appointed a young promising manager with progressive ideas. They have overhauled the commercial side of the club, now it's a matter of Rodgers getting it right on the pitch and getting back into the CL. That is the first step to getting back to where we were footballing wise just 4-5 years ago. This is clearly the toughest league to break into the top 4. Certainly when you have clubs like City and Chelsea with a bottomless pit of cash and then you have established CL clubs like Utd and Arsenal to compete with.

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