West Brom away on Sat

[SCOUSE TAPAS]

We are to reliant on a single person to score goals is the major problem imo.

 

With Suarez he will nearly always have a good game, but theres good games when he has his scoring boots on and good games he cant hit a barn door.

 

We need another player proven in the Premier league like Bent or maybe even Carroll is worth chancing on.

 

Suarez will score a load of goals that isnt even in doubt,the thing I dont understand is one I have mentioned before.

 

Suarez for Uruguay gets even a sniff of goal he will score.

Suarez for us could be 6 inches away from goal and puts it over the bar five out of ten times.

 

So when that Suarez is playing you need another on the pitch who can score.

We dont have that someone now.

 

Bellamy was ideal to bring on when Suarezs scoring boots werent on,they linked up well and Bellamy could score.

Maybe Borini will be the player to do this,I just feel he wont be even though it is really early days yet.

 

For me we need someone like Bent or Defoe here alongside Suarez as there both proven goalscorers no matter what people might think of them.

[DooooodekNo5]

I believe Carroll must stay but the gutless and the useless (Adam, Downing and Spearing step forward) have to be moved on.Adam clearly cannot cope with being just another player (unlike his superstar status at Blackpool) Downing and Spearing are not good enough...

 

Carrolls one of the only players we have that gives a shit , i really do believe he could come good here given the chance and we dont have to play like Stoke either.

 

He looked a different player at the end of the season the player we hoped we would see earlier , getting rid of him and getting in another unproven 10 mill forward just seems so pointless.

 

If we were to sell him to fund a Cavani (unlikely i know) type signing then that wouldn't be a bad thing but anything else is a waste of time.

[thompsonsnose]

Carrolls one of the only players we have that gives a shit , i really do believe he could come good here given the chance and we dont have to play like Stoke either.

 

He looked a different player at the end of the season the player we hoped we would see earlier , getting rid of him and getting in another unproven 10 mill forward just seems so pointless.

 

If we were to sell him to fund a Cavani (unlikely i know) type signing then that wouldn't be a bad thing but anything else is a waste of time.

 

Totally agree.

Just looking arsed puts him above most right now.

[dickie mint]

"I am a little more relaxed about the Agger/Skrts/ Carra jitters at the back, once they get used to Rodgers style that will settle down soon". Xerxes..

 

 

These are seasoned Internationals not 18 year old rookies so they shouldn't have jitters-as for Carragher you must have a Labrador with you if you cant see he's not up to it.

[piscinin]

After watching a bunch of swansea games, one of the thoughts foremost in my mind was that for a team with essentially two defensively minded midfielders their goalkeeper and center halves don't half get caught one on one a lot. No surprise Vorm was near the top of the shot stopping charts. Made me wonder will we break the defense before we fix the attack.

 

Then I see the high-line, Carragher being primed as the 3rd CH, Lucas roaming around all over the place instead of sitting, no sign of Reina sweeping and I worry.

[ngogswilly]

After watching a bunch of swansea games, one of the thoughts foremost in my mind was that for a team with essentially two defensively minded midfielders their goalkeeper and center halves don't half get caught one on one a lot. No surprise Vorm was near the top of the shot stopping charts. Made me wonder will we break the defense before we fix the attack.

 

Then I see the high-line, Carragher being primed as the 3rd CH, Lucas roaming around all over the place instead of sitting, no sign of Reina sweeping and I worry.

 

Well as we're all fond of being reminded, its a new system. Which could eventually reap huge awards.

 

But thing is, theres no getting away from the fact we have a really tough start to the season and the system will need to start clicking fast or we could be sitting in a precarious position before long.

[piscinin]

Well as we're all fond of being reminded, its a new system. Which could eventually reap huge awards.

 

But thing is, theres no getting away from the fact we have a really tough start to the season and the system will need to start clicking fast or we could be sitting in a precarious position before long.

 

There's that but the system is hardly benitezesque in outlook. Possession really is his idea of defense and if we can't sort that out then we're relying on individuals because the system is pretty ambivalent about things like cover etc. We have quite a few players that will not suit.

 

I remember Xabi saying at the beginning of 08 that we were finally playing the benitez way. Made me wonder what we'd been doing in the interim. Best guess of course is the pragmatic thing that got the most out of what we had. I then thought of Rodgers and I wonder, has he got another ways he can use until we get there. He seems pretty idealistic. Of course, soundbites about Plan A not working and changing to Plan A don't suggest he's quite the pragmatist you'd think you'd need in our scenario.

 

So let's see.

[spider-neil]

For me the problem was the midfield three. There was only one player who was doing what he is supposed in a possession based system; Joe Allen.

He pressed when we didn't have the ball and he passed quickly and accurately when we did have the ball.

 

Lucas looked off the pace, which is unterstandable to be honest, he was second to a lot of things and didn't move the ball along quickly enough but I'm pretty sure this will improve as he gets his fitness back.

 

Gerrard didn't press, at all, and was pretty much giving the ball away with every kick. I would seriously consider playing him in the front 3. He is probably the most clincial player in the entire squad (including the strikers) and he has the intelligence to link up with Suarez. I think asking Gerrard to chase the ball when we lose it just isn't going to happen and it has it happen in midfield if we are going to make a possession based style of football work.

[Barnesey]

I went to the Gomel (h) and West Brom games and am not sure what people's criticism of gerrard's role is all about. he was good first half on satdee, I thought, although he did give it away cheaply a few times in the second but, more importantly, he is clearly playing behind the front three in front of a defensive duo - Lucas and Shelvey or Allen.

 

This is just where he should be and everyone seems to agree

[xerxes]

"I am a little more relaxed about the Agger/Skrts/ Carra jitters at the back, once they get used to Rodgers style that will settle down soon". Xerxes..

 

 

These are seasoned Internationals not 18 year old rookies so they shouldn't have jitters-as for Carragher you must have a Labrador with you if you cant see he's not up to it.

 

The jitters related to uncertainty as to how they should deal with possession around the penalty area with Rodgers new style - not ability.

 

Whether Carra will fit in to the new style remains to be seen, i suspect that he will be seen occasionally, and not as a regular. His performance was by no means the worst on Saturday.

[xerxes]

For me the problem was the midfield three. There was only one player who was doing what he is supposed in a possession based system; Joe Allen.

He pressed when we didn't have the ball and he passed quickly and accurately when we did have the ball.

 

Lucas looked off the pace, which is unterstandable to be honest, he was second to a lot of things and didn't move the ball along quickly enough but I'm pretty sure this will improve as he gets his fitness back.

 

Gerrard didn't press, at all, and was pretty much giving the ball away with every kick. I would seriously consider playing him in the front 3. He is probably the most clincial player in the entire squad (including the strikers) and he has the intelligence to link up with Suarez. I think asking Gerrard to chase the ball when we lose it just isn't going to happen and it has it happen in midfield if we are going to make a possession based style of football work.

I had lunch with two of the Albion coaches before the game who were happy to set out their game plan.

 

Their 4231 formation allowed for us to have possession up to their penalty area, because they did not think that we had the firepower to take many chances, when they were in possession their midfield became a five giving them more options against our three. They also looked to exploit the gaps that Johnson always leaves going forwards.

 

Their view was that we would have been far more effective as a 44 11 with Gerrard playing off Suarez and Johnson playing wide midfield.

 

Rodger’s was unlucky to be playing against a manager who knew our side better than he does, and that will not happen again.

 

The midfield formula did not work last year and Rodgers will ned to experiment to get it right- he is not short of options. Gerrard cannot be asked to work in a midfield three and omb forward in attack when there are three in front of him. I have no criticism of Lucas/ Gerrard/Allen as an individual three, it is the overall formula which will need tweaking.

[Whelan]

Andy Caroll is shit, he has done nothing bar have a few months when he finally realised he had to at least give a shit to get into the side. 4 premiership goals all season, he isn't flexible enough, isn't fast enough and isn't intelligent enough to offer anything to a good footballing side. His strengths and attributes are not going to be utilised the way that we play, and he is probably the only saleable asset we have. Logic dictates that he goes.

 

His ability has suddenly been elevated to Messi levels by fans who don't like the manager but don't want to be seen to be critical so early, so they have focussed upon Andy Caroll and his Assangelike persecution by Rogers, and like Julian conveniently ignoring the sexual assault, which in Andy's case is the general shitness of his overall play.

 

I like the lad, I like him as a person and I think Rogers has treated him poorly, but I also saw his performances against Newcastle, and the like when he was nothing short of abysmal. He needs to go for his sake as much as ours.

[Phoenix]

I had lunch with two of the Albion coaches before the game who were happy to set out their game plan.

 

Their 4231 formation allowed for us to have possession up to their penalty area, because they did not think that we had the firepower to take many chances, when they were in possession their midfield became a five giving them more options against our three. They also looked to exploit the gaps that Johnson always leaves going forwards.

 

Their view was that we would have been far more effective as a 44 11 with Gerrard playing off Suarez and Johnson playing wide midfield.

 

Rodger’s was unlucky to be playing against a manager who knew our side better than he does, and that will not happen again.

 

The midfield formula did not work last year and Rodgers will ned to experiment to get it right- he is not short of options. Gerrard cannot be asked to work in a midfield three and omb forward in attack when there are three in front of him. I have no criticism of Lucas/ Gerrard/Allen as an individual three, it is the overall formula which will need tweaking.

 

Johnson is a full back and always will be.

[Whelan]

And another thing that is annoying me is this call for a natural goal scorer, I certainly agree that we need to score but FFS Suarez missed one from 3 yards and failed to get a free header on target from inside the six yard area! He needs to start putting the simple chances away, and the two best goalscorers in world football are wide players (Messi and Ronaldo), we should be looking at 3 forwards all scoring close to 20 each, rather than one scoring 30.

[xerxes]

Johnson is a full back and always will be.

 

Johnson plays at full back, but is not good enough to play there at the highest level- which is why Chelsea let him go and he went to Portsmouth to play full back.

 

He happens to be about the best footballer in our side though and is ideally suited to a wing back/wide midfield role with a specialist defender sitting behind him.

 

I can gauarantee you that we will receive no offers from any other top four pl or Euro elite clubs to buy him to play full back. He would be outstanding in a German 352.

[xerxes]

And another thing that is annoying me is this call for a natural goal scorer, I certainly agree that we need to score but FFS Suarez missed one from 3 yards and failed to get a free header on target from inside the six yard area! He needs to start putting the simple chances away, and the two best goalscorers in world football are wide players (Messi and Ronaldo), we should be looking at 3 forwards all scoring close to 20 each, rather than one scoring 30.

 

I agree, and midfield has to deliver more.

 

Suarez goal tally was dented by his suspension last season, but his pro rata record after his return was unimpressive. He is exciting and talented and may score more with someone alongside him who can take the pressure off him a little. every time he is within shooting range he tends to shoot rather than looking for better options because recently, there have been none.

[stringvest]

 

There's that but the system is hardly benitezesque in outlook. Possession really is his idea of defense and if we can't sort that out then we're relying on individuals because the system is pretty ambivalent about things like cover etc. We have quite a few players that will not suit.

 

I remember Xabi saying at the beginning of 08 that we were finally playing the benitez way. Made me wonder what we'd been doing in the interim. Best guess of course is the pragmatic thing that got the most out of what we had. I then thought of Rodgers and I wonder, has he got another ways he can use until we get there. He seems pretty idealistic. Of course, soundbites about Plan A not working and changing to Plan A don't suggest he's quite the pragmatist you'd think you'd need in our scenario.

 

So let's see.

 

Personally I'm pleased that the system does not reflect something that Benitez would deploy, but that's by the by. Benitez Usually managed the team to deliver less than the sum of its parts, and that's something we can do without. Hardly ever did he get the most of what we had. So rarely, in fact, that we all can name the occasions by rote, as they're held up as evidence of tactical genius. I am not denigrating Benitez's achievements here, as winning a Champions League and an FA Cup mark him out as an important manager in Liverpool's history, and should be respected.

 

You may have missed the games where we failed to offer any alternative to a failed plan A, and the resultant wailing and gnashing of teeth in frustration at Benitez's inability to change things around to affect a game, but they were there, and there were lots of them.

 

I am sure Rodgers is canny enough to recognise weaknesses and address them, but it is a learning process and while he is going to have to make compromises with his preferred style, it hardly requires Steven Hawking to pick up on it. I've supported the club for long enough to realise patience is a virtue, and a credible critique of a managers outlook cannot be made on the back of one game, or even 10. Lucas is no world beater, but I credit him with enough intelligence and skill to be able to adapt to a more dynamic role, and to do it more quickly than it took him to adapt to a defensive role.

 

I remain optimistic, though I am aware that the challenges posed by the ownership are not going to make this easy.

[xerxes]

Personally I'm pleased that the system does not reflect something that Benitez would deploy, but that's by the by. Benitez Usually managed the team to deliver less than the sum of its parts, and that's something we can do without. Hardly ever did he get the most of what we had. So rarely, in fact, that we all can name the occasions by rote, as they're held up as evidence of tactical genius. I am not denigrating Benitez's achievements here, as winning a Champions League and an FA Cup mark him out as an important manager in Liverpool's history, and should be respected.

 

You may have missed the games where we failed to offer any alternative to a failed plan A, and the resultant wailing and gnashing of teeth in frustration at Benitez's inability to change things around to affect a game, but they were there, and there were lots of them.

 

I am sure Rodgers is canny enough to recognise weaknesses and address them, but it is a learning process and while he is going to have to make compromises with his preferred style, it hardly requires Steven Hawking to pick up on it. I've supported the club for long enough to realise patience is a virtue, and a credible critique of a managers outlook cannot be made on the back of one game, or even 10. Lucas is no world beater, but I credit him with enough intelligence and skill to be able to adapt to a more dynamic role, and to do it more quickly than it took him to adapt to a defensive role.

 

I remain optimistic, though I am aware that the challenges posed by the ownership are not going to make this easy.

 

A welcome, balanced, sensible appraisal of the situation.

 

I anticipate a horrible run of results over the next few weeks and then gradual improvement, certainly to improve on the second half of last season.

[Whelan]

It is the law of the sod that a year that we are going to be slow starters we get a bitch of a start! The only bonus is that hopefully we can then go on a run, although confidence is going to be key. A couple of good signings could instill that as well, hopefully in order I would like to see an attacker/wide player, forward if Caroll leaves, defensive midfielder and a centre half. Apparently Godin is available for £7m, send Coates on loan to Athetlic for a year, and see if that is possible, but it all depends upon Caroll leaving.

[dickie mint]

The jitters related to uncertainty as to how they should deal with possession around the penalty area with Rodgers new style - not ability.

 

Whether Carra will fit in to the new style remains to be seen, i suspect that he will be seen occasionally, and not as a regular. His performance was by no means the worst on Saturday.

 

 

Sorry mate know wonder these seasoned Pro's had the jitters playing this new revolutionary style os Football called passing and keeping possesion,its odd no other manager has ever thought of it before now.

[piscinin]

Personally I'm pleased that the system does not reflect something that Benitez would deploy, but that's by the by. Benitez Usually managed the team to deliver less than the sum of its parts, and that's something we can do without. Hardly ever did he get the most of what we had. So rarely, in fact, that we all can name the occasions by rote, as they're held up as evidence of tactical genius. I am not denigrating Benitez's achievements here, as winning a Champions League and an FA Cup mark him out as an important manager in Liverpool's history, and should be respected.

 

You may have missed the games where we failed to offer any alternative to a failed plan A, and the resultant wailing and gnashing of teeth in frustration at Benitez's inability to change things around to affect a game, but they were there, and there were lots of them.

 

I am sure Rodgers is canny enough to recognise weaknesses and address them, but it is a learning process and while he is going to have to make compromises with his preferred style, it hardly requires Steven Hawking to pick up on it. I've supported the club for long enough to realise patience is a virtue, and a credible critique of a managers outlook cannot be made on the back of one game, or even 10. Lucas is no world beater, but I credit him with enough intelligence and skill to be able to adapt to a more dynamic role, and to do it more quickly than it took him to adapt to a defensive role.

 

I remain optimistic, though I am aware that the challenges posed by the ownership are not going to make this easy.

 

Like a red rag to a bull.

[Whelan]

Sorry mate know wonder these seasoned Pro's had the jitters playing this new revolutionary style os Football called passing and keeping possesion,its odd no other manager has ever thought of it before now.

 

Just because they are seasoned pro's doesn't mean they are aware of what to do and when to do it, they are still under 30 and learning a new approach and subsequently there will be teething problems, particularly within a competitive context.

 

Skrtel may naturally be inclined to hoof the ball but aware that Rogers wants possession might delay, thinking it is not what he should be doing! At the moment a few of the players are not playing on instinct and might not for a while.

[stringvest]

Like a red rag to a bull.

 

grrrr. I fell for it again.

[thompsonsnose]

Andy Caroll is shit, he has done nothing bar have a few months when he finally realised he had to at least give a shit to get into the side. 4 premiership goals all season, he isn't flexible enough, isn't fast enough and isn't intelligent enough to offer anything to a good footballing side. His strengths and attributes are not going to be utilised the way that we play, and he is probably the only saleable asset we have. Logic dictates that he goes.

 

His ability has suddenly been elevated to Messi levels by fans who don't like the manager but don't want to be seen to be critical so early, so they have focussed upon Andy Caroll and his Assangelike persecution by Rogers, and like Julian conveniently ignoring the sexual assault, which in Andy's case is the general shitness of his overall play.

 

I like the lad, I like him as a person and I think Rogers has treated him poorly, but I also saw his performances against Newcastle, and the like when he was nothing short of abysmal. He needs to go for his sake as much as ours.

 

How much?

[Whelan]

How much?

 

For Caroll?

 

Personally, as near to £20 as possible. I wouldn't settle for anything less than £17m though.