Domestic Cup double "still not enough" to save Kenny says Henry

[Bjornebye]

 

Adults are talking Bjornebye, do be quiet.

 

Go and post some pictures of another bird you 'love' up on the GF!

 

 

 

I can't help myself. One hand ferociously barking on here the other down my pants. It's adolescence. don't fuck with nature. and stop contradicting yourself thread by thread.

[dickie mint]

 

That wasn't your point though was it? And it is not what you are arguing now, otherwise you wouldn't be arguing for or against how they run the club, just that it is successful.

 

Interestingly, we were also one of the last clubs to have Corporate Boxes! Which suggests they became complacent and lacked long term business acumen.

 

 

No one saying you dont make money but it was a proper run club with them in charge.

By the way where you on the Kop in them days?

[Guest Numero Veinticinco]

Personally I would rather we challenged for trophies and finished in the top four, you know like Arsenal, United, Chelsea and City tend to do! Like we used to do not so long ago.

 

If you haven't won a trophy for 5 years I can totally understand winning the Littlewoods cup and focussing on the FA cup over 4th, but we have done that now, long term we need to challenge for the champions league spot and trophies.

 

Arsenal spend very modestly and sell their best players. That's why they've not pushed on and won anything. Every summer it seems like they sell their best players.

 

You get fourth, you spend the money on good players, you kick on and keep your best players. That's how you win. They've been happy to build a new stadium and pay it off. They've had a manager who has been afraid of spending.

[dickie mint]

 

 

???? exactly you thick fucker

 

 

3 hours and back the Hostel Compo.

[Kennys_spell]

There isn't a club in the world that would take 2 domestic trophies over a top 4 finish and nor should they.

 

The game has changed and you either realise that getting to the top 4 and staying there while making an assault at other trophies is the goal or you will get left behind.

 

There is a reason why the top 4 teams usually share the trophies between them and that's because they realise this.

 

Not sure I agree with that - there is a reason that we are one of the most famous clubs in the world and it isn't due to the amount of times we've finished in the top 4.

[Whelan]

I can't help myself. One hand ferociously barking on here the other down my pants. It's adolescence. don't fuck with nature. and stop contradicting yourself thread by thread.

 

Haha!

 

I am not contradicting myself at all. I think owners of the clubs have to be business minded and have to be focussed upon maximising the revenue of the club.

 

That is responsible management, what happened to us, Rangers, Portsmouth is irresponsible and essentially down to pure greed.

 

No one saying you dont make money but it was a proper run club with them in charge.

By the way where you on the Kop in them days?

 

Paddock until I was 8 then Kop!

 

It was also a lot simpler in terms of running a club though Dickie! You had far less competition from abroad, far less comercial pressures, and players were not on ridiculous contracts that needed servicing.

 

Considering United have built the largest stadium and become the most profitable club during their period of dominance and we only added on the upper tier to the Centenary and boxes in 92', I think they took their eye of the ball.

 

David Moores was what you would call a football man, and look at how much of a disaster that turned out to be.

 

It is very easy being a manager, owner and supporter of a club that is winning everything and is more or less one of the richest clubs. We are neither at the moment, and therefore I think hard decisions have to made, the long term has to be taken over the short term even if it means missing out on the odd trophy.

[xerxes]

You get fourth, you spend the money on good players, you kick on and keep your best players. That's how you win. They've been happy to build a new stadium and pay it off.

 

An incomplete analysis.

 

Fourth place/CL football undoubtedly improves income, but the extra income you have to spend to win the top prizes is uneconomic ( see Chelsea/Man City/ Barca/ Real Madrid). The fee that Spurs are asking for Modric is the equivalent of our annual matchday income.

 

That is where FSG's self-sustainability model flounders. Firstly it won't be enough to get us into a prize winning position, secondly when FFP bites it will keep us out.

[Whelan]

They've had a manager who has been afraid of spending.

 

I had the misfortune of being cornered by a Bluenose a few weeks ago, who as usual told me exactly what was wrong with my club!

 

But, we spoke about Moyes and I argued that I think he is overated, they agreed he is one dimensional and I suggested this is because no matter where they finish, how many Semi Finals he loses, or how many years he fails to challenge for a trophy he is never criticised and therefore isn't pushed to improve and look at new ideas.

 

I think this is the case with Wenger. No matter what they did, they were praised to the hilt for their football and he was never under pressure to change that. I think Arsenal's model is proof that you can certainly challenge and with a slightly different tact win trophies as well.

[Bjornebye]

 

 

3 hours and back the Hostel Compo.

 

Love this hostel stuff and the compo comments. belter. isn't compo dead?

 

you can be greengrass.

[dickie mint]

Haha!

 

I am not contradicting myself at all. I think owners of the clubs have to be business minded and have to be focussed upon maximising the revenue of the club.

 

That is responsible management, what happened to us, Rangers, Portsmouth is irresponsible and essentially down to pure greed.

 

 

 

Paddock until I was 8 then Kop!

 

It was also a lot simpler in terms of running a club though Dickie! You had far less competition from abroad, far less comercial pressures, and players were not on ridiculous contracts that needed servicing.

 

Considering United have built the largest stadium and become the most profitable club during their period of dominance and we only added on the upper tier to the Centenary and boxes in 92', I think they took their eye of the ball.

 

David Moores was what you would call a football man, and look at how much of a disaster that turned out to be.

 

It is very easy being a manager, owner and supporter of a club that is winning everything and is more or less one of the richest clubs. We are neither at the moment, and therefore I think hard decisions have to made, the long term has to be taken over the short term even if it means missing out on the odd trophy.

 

 

A good post -but investment is needed and the ground needs moving on,but questions are asked and not a lot is getting done.

 

 

 

I think they took their eye of the ball.

 

 

You are right.

[dickie mint]

 

Love this hostel stuff and the compo comments. belter. isn't compo dead?

 

you can be greengrass.

 

 

Its only a laugh lad-dont get caught watching the Olympics through Currys window in Church street.

[Whelan]

A good post -but investment is needed and the ground needs moving on,but questions are asked and not a lot is getting done.

 

 

 

I think they took their eye of the ball.

 

 

You are right.

 

I think a new stadium is out of the question, I can't say I disagree as I don't think it makes financial sense.

 

But, the development needs a light touch, they can't really state their aims without first getting access to the houses. Once this is addressed I think they will announce, that is why I think they do need a little bit of patience with this.

 

But I agree totally, we need a bigger crowd and better facilities.

[Bjornebye]

I think a new stadium is out of the question, I can't say I disagree as I don't think it makes financial sense.

 

But, the development needs a light touch, they can't really state their aims without first getting access to the houses. Once this is addressed I think they will announce, that is why I think they do need a little bit of patience with this.

 

But I agree totally, we need a bigger crowd and better facilities.

 

without a doubt. it's holding us back ....

[Gym Beglin]

Has this changed anything, by the way?

 

We all knew, or speculated, that an FA Cup win would not have saved Kenny, this is just confirmation of that.

 

Domestic cup wins = nice, but a barometer of nothing in particular in the modern game.

 

 

They've picked their own guy now, so this is the end of the excuses now, we'll see what happens.

[silverlining]

It's a lot easier to win the league if first of all you are playing CL football.

 

Top four = better players through money and stature whether people like it or not.

 

Who incidentally were the last team to win the League without finishing in the top 4 the year before?

 

Barring a miracle it's going to be a gradual progression.

 

No, you're right, too. Finishing fourth would be a sign of progression. It (usually) gets you into the CL. It's a far better indicator of how good your team is compared to domestic cup success.

 

But......but. Two domestic cups? Two more trophies? I'd be hard pushed to call that one.

 

I think we'd all agree that if we never won anything else apart from domestic cup competitions we wouldn't be happy, but it'd be a close call for next season if SOMEONE COULD BE ARSED TO DO A POLL.

 

Of course, I cheated a bit and said "5th". It also does matter where you finish. Like, y'know, 12th or something. Or relegated.

[TheHowieLama]

After knocking up a poll - someone could do a stat on the likelihood of winning two domestic cups and not finishing in the top 4.

[Skidfingers McGonical]

Spurs finished 4th last year. Their reward? Entering the uefa cup at a later date than us.

 

Anyone that thinks 4th is better than a domestic double, profits from the club or didn't attend the big games last year.

 

Spurs are only in the Europa because Chelsea won the CL.

 

We were in the hunt before Christmas for 4th, along with Spurs and many others.

 

We fell far short in achieving that. Far, far short, at least Spurs were in with a shout until the CL final, us, we had no fucking chance come February.

 

I wanted Kenny to get another season, I was angry along with many others. I have taken a step back and let the sentimentality go from my thoughts and actually agree it was the right thing to do.

 

I suggest you take a break from here as you are acting like a spoil child. And it’s also getting extremely boring to see your repetitive Rashid like behaviour in every thread every day.

[Gym Beglin]

After knocking up a poll - someone could do a stat on the likelihood of winning two domestic cups and not finishing in the top 4.

 

You could also do a similar poll whereby you could see how likely it was to get into one of the domestic cup finals yet not be in the Premier League.

[WaltonRed]

a cup win should of gotten him more time

 

a cup double should of gotten him more time and more money

 

i cant believe we're now run in a way that 4th is the only thing that matters

 

its disgusting but I suppose thats the sport we all love now a days

[bossy]

a cup win should of gotten him more time

 

a cup double should of gotten him more time and more money

 

i cant believe we're now run in a way that 4th is the only thing that matters

 

its disgusting but I suppose thats the sport we all love now a days

 

I can't agree with you because you've written 'gotten'.

 

And of instead of have.

[Timão]

What does that mean? When was the last time we were run by "Football people" and who were they? Are Arsenal run by "Football people" - what have they won for the last 7/8 seasons?

 

John Smith And Peter Robinson - You must remember them.

 

Stop being so fucking condescending. We all remember them, but they did leave 25 years ago. Moores styled himself a football person and look how well that worked out.

 

Kenny spent more money than any Liverpool manager ever did. He finished miles behind - in fact we went backwards in league terms. Did you seriously think that a League Cup and an FA Cup final would save him, bearing in mind the terrible league form we showed in the second half of the season?

 

Football has moved on and whilst for most of us trophies are still what we dream of and what we go for, the game is not like that anymore. It's sad, I hate it, but there you go.

 

We, as a club, are inherently conservative, we like our values, we value our past and we like to keep hold of it. But we need to move with the times if we are not to be left behind permanently. The challenge is to do this whilst preserving what is best about LFC. Whether Henry is the man to do that is open to question, but Moores certainly wasn't and about H&G we do not even need to talk.

 

FSG assumed an enormous task and a terrible mess when they took over, I suspect it will take years to sort it out, if ever. We have got to give them a chance, accepting that they are not your traditonal Liverpool owners but be clear about one thing: Whoever owns us, LFC will never again be like it was under Smith and Robinson.

[Ranxerox]

You get fourth, you spend the money on good players, you kick on and keep your best players. That's how you win.

 

Gee Hank maybe you should call John and Tom and let them know about your formula because at this rate they're never going to get the club anywhere near 4th.

[WaltonRed]

Sorry Bossy and you are spot on I should of been clearer in my use of the queens english!

[xerxes]

i cant believe we're now run in a way that 4th is the only thing that matters.

 

its disgusting but I suppose thats the sport we all love now a days

 

The League Cup winners prize money is less than Gerrards weekly wage. This is the modern world.