Joe Allen thread

[dickie mint]

Personally, I think there's a much bigger chance of Allen being a success at 15m than Hazard at 35m. I'd take Allen, Borini and Sturridge over Hazard. I think those three would do more than the one signing.

 

There's a local reporter who, apparently, know what he's talking about when it comes to Swansea, and he says we've put an official bid in for the lad. Really hope it comes off and is one or a couple or three more signings before the season starts.

 

 

Nearly every top club in europe where after Hazard -but what do they know-ah well.

[Guest Numero Veinticinco]

You don't think a goal scoring midfielder is a bigger priority?

 

Depends on how fit Gerrard is likely to be. We certainly need back-up for him.

 

I think we need quite a few players more than we'll get.

[Markmywords]

Well, I've noticed a few people talking about "finding the next Hamann" and I do think we need another defensive midfielder, but how do we know Allen can't do it?

.

 

For the next 2 years at least Gerrad is the new Hamman.

[Guest Numero Veinticinco]

Nearly every top club in europe where after Hazard -but what do they know-ah well.

 

What does that prove? I'm not saying Hazard isn't a good player or a good prospect. I'm not saying he can't become a great player, I'm just saying that we're in a different position to other top clubs at the moment.

 

If we still had Alonso, Mascherano and Gerrard as our midfield, with Torres up top, I'd pull your arm off for Hazard. However, I'd wager Borini, Allen and Sturridge (or Callejón, or Gerard) will do us a better service than just Hazard.

 

Especially if Hazard doesn't take to this league.

[Jairzinho]

I see your point but why is that realistic? For the next five years will we be buying like a mid table club and just accept it because we have to be realistic?

 

They will improve us. But marginally. For the approximate £20-25m we'll spend on Dempsey and Allen, we would find tons better quality abroad. There is no value here.

 

Careful now, you must play Champ manager.

[Guest Numero Veinticinco]

Careful now, you must play Champ manager.

 

I really want Allen, so I'm not fussed at not looking elsewhere, but spending Dempsey money elsewhere makes sense.

[dickie mint]

we're in a different position to other top clubs at the moment.

 

 

You are right there Hank-they are miles ahead mate.

[Jairzinho]

I really want Allen, so I'm not fussed at not looking elsewhere, but spending Dempsey money elsewhere makes sense.

 

I know you are, and I also know that you're not one for buying British because they're British.

 

Personally, I'm not that arsed about Allen. We buy him, "meh". He's better than all but two of our central midfielders so I'm happy enough I guess.

 

Just sick of us getting rinsed in the transfer market. He isn't worth £15m, not yet anyway. Just because he might be in a year or two doesn't make the fee right now.

 

Spending £10m (the muted fee, no?) on Dempsey would be ridiculous and in a year or two he would be yet another player in his 30s, on big wages, and a long contract, that we're struggling to shift.

 

Just wish our scouting was a little more progressive. There's such value to be had in almost every other decent league in Europe. And before any cunt pipes up about us not having Champions League football, or being able to pay £150k p/w, we don't have to in order to sign players that would drastically improve our team. There are players that were relegated from La Liga last season that I'd be genuinely excited about if we signed them.

[Dr. J]

We'd better act quickly - once Spurs sell Modric they'll be flush and buying up anyone we want.

 

The most we can hope for is to be in competition for fourth place - just like Spurs and Newcastle. Unlike us, they've got players that other clubs want and are willing to pay for. Our buying catastrophes of the past few years have put us into a situation where we have to consider 15 million for Joe Allen and 10 for Dempsey. A series of fucked decisions have left us, well...

[silverlining]

We'd better act quickly - once Spurs sell Modric they'll be flush and buying up anyone we want.

 

The most we can hope for is to be in competition for fourth place - just like Spurs and Newcastle. Unlike us, they've got players that other clubs want and are willing to pay for. Our buying catastrophes of the past few years have put us into a situation where we have to consider 15 million for Joe Allen and 10 for Dempsey. A series of fucked decisions have left us, well...

 

I think they're more likely to go after someone like Moutinho

[JohnnyH]

I was looking on a Utd forum to see if there was any mention of the lad with the Hillsborough tattoo, and there was a thread about Joe Allan from back in February and they were all waxing lyrical about him, listing his qualities such as winning the ball back, always looking up to see where the play was and what was on, wanting the ball in tight spots and playing clever balls out of them, etc. Then, all of a sudden in mid-July his passing became aimless, his shooting very poor and he’s not worth the bother.

 

Footy fans are ace.

[silverlining]

I see your point but why is that realistic? For the next five years will we be buying like a mid table club and just accept it because we have to be realistic?

 

They will improve us. But marginally. For the approximate £20-25m we'll spend on Dempsey and Allen, we would find tons better quality abroad. There is no value here.

 

Why is that realsitic?

 

It's realistic because we were the 8th best club in the Premiership last year.

It's realistic because we haven't played in Europe's top compeition for three seasons, won't play in it this season, and won't play in it next season.

It's realistic because we can't pay the transfer fees or wages that many of our competitors can.

It's realistic because we don't have an AVB, Mourinho, Ferguson or even Benitez who can attract players to come and play for us because of their name/ reputation/ birthplace

It's realistic because the top players want to play in the top teams, with other top players

It's realistic because we wasted the last £100m we were given to spend on Carroll, Downing, Horrenderson and Adam.

It's realistic because the name "Liverpool FC" doesn't mean as much as it used to, no matter how much we kid ourselves.

[magicrat]

We'd better act quickly - once Spurs sell Modric they'll be flush and buying up anyone we want.

 

The most we can hope for is to be in competition for fourth place - just like Spurs and Newcastle. Unlike us, they've got players that other clubs want and are willing to pay for. Our buying catastrophes of the past few years have put us into a situation where we have to consider 15 million for Joe Allen and 10 for Dempsey. A series of fucked decisions have left us, well...

 

I read there was a 15 mil release clause in his contract and Rodgers has given undertakings to Swansea not to tap up their players . If true then we have to trigger the release and pay 15 mill to get him. Doubt its his current market value as it doesnt look as though there are queues forming to santch him away at that price.

[Ginny]

I think 15 million is a lot for this kid. Does anyone know what wages he will be on?

[JohnnyH]

I think 15 million is a lot for this kid. Does anyone know what wages he will be on?

 

Whatever it is it’ll be too much, and then if we pull out our owners will be cunts for not funding it.

[Guest Numero Veinticinco]

Whatever it is it’ll be too much, and then if we pull out our owners will be cunts for not funding it.

 

Exactly the way some people think. One minute the owners are clueless for having a director of football, the next they're clueless for scrapping the director of football.

 

I've even heard people blame them for allowing the signing of Carroll and Downing. Can you imagine if they didn't allow Kenny to buy them? There'd be uproar about lack of support. They can't win.

 

The mistakes they've made I can forgive. If they do something big, then that'll change.

[The Woolster]

Well, I've noticed a few people talking about "finding the next Hamann" and I do think we need another defensive midfielder, but how do we know Allen can't do it?

 

Lucas arrived - allegedly - as a "box to box" midfielder, but was so shit at it he changed his game to a pure holding player. Out of neccessity, really.

 

Didi Hamann was playing in a far more advanced role for Newcastle before Houllier signed him and moved him back.

 

We don't HAVE to buy a holding midfielder who is currently playing that role.

 

All you need is tactical discipline, the ability to tackle and pass, brains and bottle.

 

In an ideal world you'd have a bit of speed, and the ability to get forward when possible and score/ create a few, but the chances of finding a Petit, Vieira, Keane or Souness is probably asking a bit much.

 

Completely agree and have been saying the same for a while. There is no point spending some of our limited budget on a player who can do what Lucas does as well as him to replace him, because unless he is better than Lucas, he will either be on the bench, or we have 2 defensive minded players in the midfield. I can't imagine someone good enough to cover for him would come to be on our bench unless we paid him a lot, so we'd end up buying someone not good enough, in which case we may as well stick with Spearing.

 

Much better to get someone who can play alongside Lucas, linking defence and attack, but who can also cover for Lucas if he is out injured or rested. Can Allen do that is the question, I am not certain, but I think he can.

[Guest Numero Veinticinco]

Can Allen do that is the question, I am not certain, but I think he can.

 

I definitely think he can, but If we can't get him or Swansea won't play ball, then Jordy Clasie is the man.

[The Woolster]

I definitely think he can, but If we can't get him or Swansea won't play ball, then Jordy Clasie is the man.

 

I've never seen him play unfortunately, so can't give an opinion (if I had the stats I could tell you exactly how good he is...), but everything I've read about him makes me think he could be. Have seen him quoted as saying he wants more time to develop before moving to a big club, so not sure if we'd be able to get him this summer either.

[Evil_Ways]

Im not too fussed about the £15m price tag for Allen. Yeah it is alot considering he's only had one season in the prem. But to be fair, he's only had the chance to play in the prem for one season. The season before is when he really broke through in their first team. He just turned 22 this last spring.

 

I dont see many parallels with Henderson apart from both being brittish and young, and thus the price arguably being inflated. However you only have to watch Allen a few times to realise he's a much different player with different qualities. He likes responsibility and he looks to make things happen. We desperately need a central midfielder considering Gerrard's injury problems and the fact that he's best used in a more advanced role, along with the fact that Adam and Henderson havent improved us one bit since joining and Lucas is just coming back from a serious injury. From the prem i cannot think of a central midfielder we'd be better off going for, of the players we have a realistic chance of getting that is. Going for top talents abroad would be more difficult in this case i think.

[Kozel9]

Im not too fussed about the £15m price tag for Allen. Yeah it is alot considering he's only had one season in the prem. But to be fair, he's only had the chance to play in the prem for one season. The season before is when he really broke through in their first team. He just turned 22 this last spring.

 

I dont see many parallels with Henderson apart from both being brittish and young, and thus the price arguably being inflated. However you only have to watch Allen a few times to realise he's a much different player with different qualities. He likes responsibility and he looks to make things happen. We desperately need a central midfielder considering Gerrard's injury problems and the fact that he's best used in a more advanced role, along with the fact that Adam and Henderson havent improved us one bit since joining and Lucas is just coming back from a serious injury. From the prem i cannot think of a central midfielder we'd be better off going for, of the players we have a realistic chance of getting that is. Going for top talents abroad would be more difficult in this case i think.

 

If we had the same kind of cash that we had last summer, it wouldn't be that big of a deal, but since we have limited cash to spend, we need to use it on players who definately will improve our best 11, and in areas where we need the most.

 

Our midfield wasn't that bad last season. And still we have 2 players who will be like new signings in Aquilani and Lucas.

 

A midfield consisting of Gerrard, Aquilani/Henderson and Lucas with Spearing, Shelvey, and Adam as backups wouldn't be bad imo. I am sure it is not going to happen, but i wouldn't mind it if the our transfer money could be spent on at least one wing.

[Evil_Ways]

If we had the same kind of cash that we had last summer, it wouldn't be that big of a deal, but since we have limited cash to spend, we need to use it on players who definately will improve our best 11, and in areas where we need the most.

 

Our midfield wasn't that bad last season. And still we have 2 players who will be like new signings in Aquilani and Lucas.

 

A midfield consisting of Gerrard, Aquilani/Henderson and Lucas with Spearing, Shelvey, and Adam as backups wouldn't be bad imo. I am sure it is not going to happen, but i wouldn't mind it if the our transfer money could be spent on at least one wing.

 

I think Allen will definitely improve our first 11. It seems Aquilani does not want to be here and he will most likely leave. Gerrard when he's fit will most likely be used in the attacking cm role. Henderson and Adam did nothing IMO to justify their places in the team, Shelvey on the other hand did show ability, the right attitude and promise, don't think he's ready to be a regular yet though. We are most likely going to use 3 central midfielders if not in all, at least for most games. Lucas, Allen and Gerrard would represent a strong first string i think. Shelvey, Henderson, Spearing and Adam if the last two stay i believe will be decent back up to step in when any of the first three are missing. I agree though that a creative wide forward should be a priority signing, but along with a central midfielder, who seems to be Allen.

[The Woolster]

I think Allen will definitely improve our first 11. It seems Aquilani does not want to be here and he will most likely leave. Gerrard when he's fit will most likely be used in the attacking cm role. Henderson and Adam did nothing IMO to justify their places in the team, Shelvey on the other hand did show ability, the right attitude and promise, don't think he's ready to be a regular yet though. We are most likely going to use 3 central midfielders if not in all, at least for most games. Lucas, Allen and Gerrard would represent a strong first string i think. Shelvey, Henderson, Spearing and Adam if the last two stay i believe will be decent back up to step in when any of the first three are missing. I agree though that a creative wide forward should be a priority signing, but along with a central midfielder, who seems to be Allen.

 

Those are my views pretty much exactly, although its arguable that we already hev the wide forward that we need in Borini.

 

Depending on form and fitness:

 

DM: Lucas, backed up by Allen, then Spearing

CM: Allen, backed up Gerrard, Henderson or Adam

AM: Gerrard backed up by Shlevey or Cole (if he stays) or Adam or Henderson.

 

Thats good enough for me.

[WaltonRed]

offered money and jonjo on loan which was turned down

[Evil_Ways]

Those are my views pretty much exactly, although its arguable that we already hev the wide forward that we need in Borini.

 

Depending on form and fitness:

 

DM: Lucas, backed up by Allen, then Spearing

CM: Allen, backed up Gerrard, Henderson or Adam

AM: Gerrard backed up by Shlevey or Cole (if he stays) or Adam or Henderson.

 

Thats good enough for me.

 

Seems Dempsey could be the wide forward, underwhelming for me. But his record is very, very good over the last two seasons, if he could put in similar numbers for us, and the price was reasonable, it would be good business. But since Maxi and Kuyt have already left, and rumours about Cole, Aquilani, Carroll and Adam following them out the door persist i'd be surprised if we didnt bring in at least one more apart from Allen and Dempsey.