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Nathanzx

Why have FSG not yet appointed key staff?

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Guest Numero Veinticinco
£30m/£220m down is 14% per annum.

 

14% is 14% - handsome.

 

And only 8 years to start seeing a return, assuming none of that money is spend. Only 8 years to wait, assuming none of it's spent, which it will be, to see their 1.5m share. I'm sure people with hundreds of millions, or billions, are really waiting on that money, mate!

 

We agree that football can be a poor investment, but need not be.Ask Mandaric, the Golds/Sullivan and Jack Petchey. The trick is capital and windfall growth,with minimal capital net investment, which FSG are seeing (they have not had to spend a penny on the club shirt and PL TV deals). Nice.

 

Above the asking price, we've seen a loss since they've been here. Splitting profits 20 ways isn't why they got into this. Well, not the only reason, which is my point.

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they have not had to spend a penny on the club shirt and PL TV deals). Nice.

 

What does that even mean?

 

You talk some utter hot air in your agenda against these owners.

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Is it not safer to have a couple of hundred million invested in something such as Liverpool than it is with banks these days. It's a safe bet to think they will leave with the same if not more money when the time comes to sell.

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Guest Numero Veinticinco
Is it not safer to have a couple of hundred million invested in something such as Liverpool than it is with banks these days. It's a safe bet to think they will leave with the same if not more money when the time comes to sell.

 

They'd get a better return from giving their money to hedge fund managers, which some of them are. Once you get a certain amount of money, it just becomes numbers. You want to do other stuff with it.

 

If you have a couple of billion, which earns you more in interest every year than you can spend, would your first thought be 'if I invest this and live in a tin shack, I could really have loads of numbers in my account', or would it be 'fuck this, let's buy some cool shit that won't really cost us anything'.

 

It's about opening doors. I'd buy all sorts of shit if I were a billionaire, and I wouldn't necessarily have to be interested in it.

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Behave yourself. I know exactly what G&H were, putting it in simple terms they were stupid businessmen. FSG are not, they're rather intelligent.

 

I didn't make them 'fucking Hitler', their intentions are the same as H&G's only this time they may just be successful, that doesn't necessarily translate to success on the pitch, it doesn't have to. Honestly get to fuck with that shite.

 

The critical difference is H&G were trying to make a profit at the expense of the club, while FSG are trying to make a profit with the club.

 

That makes all the difference. FSG's interests are aligned with ours. If we do well so do they. H&G didnt give a fuck, they were running us into the ground waiting for a wealthy buyer.

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For what other reason(s) did FSG buy Liverpool FC?

 

They've dreamed of owning us since Henry and Werner were little lads growing up on the Kop.

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The critical difference is H&G were trying to make a profit at the expense of the club, while FSG are trying to make a profit with the club.

 

That makes all the difference. FSG's interests are aligned with ours. If we do well so do they. H&G didnt give a fuck, they were running us into the ground waiting for a wealthy buyer.

 

Were they? Surely their motives are exactly the same. Increase the value of the asset and then sell?

 

Difference is that H&G didn't have the cash to back up their risky loans when the credit bubble burst and then were too greedy or thick to sell when they needed to.

 

FSGs interests are aligned to the clubs as were H&Gs. Luckily FSG appear so far to have a bit more about them.

 

They'll build the stadium when it makes commercial sense and invest in the club the value that makes commercial sense.

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Were they? Surely their motives are exactly the same. Increase the value of the asset and then sell?

 

Difference is that H&G didn't have the cash to back up their risky loans when the credit bubble burst and then were too greedy or thick to sell when they needed to.

 

FSGs interests are aligned to the clubs as were H&Gs. Luckily FSG appear so far to have a bit more about them.

 

They'll build the stadium when it makes commercial sense and invest in the club the value that makes commercial sense.

 

No I disagree. H&G did not care about increasing the value of the asset. They cared only for their direct profit. Thats what made them corporate raiders instead of legitimate owners. When they loaded the aquisition debt onto the asset and continually refinanced with worsening interest rates, they knowingly decreased the value of the asset, but they didnt care because it decreased their risk.

 

Everything I have seen from FSG suggests they are looking for sustainable growth.

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jaysus, fairly underwhelmed by what piscinin said if true

 

they do seem to talk rather a lot and then we must wait patiently for them to deliver on their promises until they say "it wasn't the right time" or "we had the best qualified people already at the club" etc etc

 

starting to worry that they might be full of shite with regard to some aspect of what is going on at the club

 

and ayre as a defacto director of football at the club is not the right decision, give the guy some job in the commercial department and leave it at that but to have him as a kind of chief executive and director of football goes 199% against what the owners have been promising us since they came in, it's like the second coming of parry

 

ayre has too much power

 

and fsg pulled down their trousers for rodgers too

 

worrying signs that they lack a bit of spine and integrity and that their grandiose plans for the club are subject to change at the whim of this or that

 

I don't think they lack a spine, it's more a lack of confidence, which stems from a lack of knowledge and experience.

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I think we are only one key staff member away.

 

Rodgers has the manager/DOF role. i.e. no DOF

Man City scouts to help recruit players and discuss targets etc with Rodgers, who has final say.

Segura has the academy. He works in keeping with what Rodgers wants too so it's a good fit.

 

Here's where it gets problematic - Ian Ayre is doing the actual negotiations and deal making from a financial perspective? I'm not sure that he is the right man for this. Ian Ayre is at his best on the commercial side. He should help to grow that.

 

We need to hire a footballing man who can mix in the upper echelons of the FA and Premier League, someone who is well respected there and who also will represent our club very well. This is where we are lightweight in comparison to other big teams. Ideally this man will also have some business acumen and can easily handle negotiating player contracts.

 

Step forward Brian Barwick. He's the man we need. A gentleman and a red too.

 

I thought Brian Barwick had been appointed in some capacity?

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Guest ShoePiss
The critical difference is H&G were trying to make a profit at the expense of the club, while FSG are trying to make a profit with the club.

 

That makes all the difference. FSG's interests are aligned with ours. If we do well so do they. H&G didnt give a fuck, they were running us into the ground waiting for a wealthy buyer.

 

They'll say they're aligned with ours but clearly it's about maximum profit rather than success. The difference between 4th/3rd place and 1st is huge financially. Winning the league doesn't even cross your mind though, you've only been here 5 minutes so I understand that.

 

FSG will sell the club in the next 7 years, I'll bet anyone that. They'll make a good return on investment and we will not have won the league in that time.

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i think they will be happy if we got 4th every year turn the commercial aspect of the club around make us attractive to a prespective buyer.we wont win the league because we simply cant afford the best players unless we follow the dortmund model and see where that would take us.i just cant see it.

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The critical difference is H&G were trying to make a profit at the expense of the club, while FSG are trying to make a profit with the club.

 

That makes all the difference. FSG's interests are aligned with ours. If we do well so do they. H&G didnt give a fuck, they were running us into the ground waiting for a wealthy buyer.

 

 

 

This is a little misleading.

 

On your first point we would all agree that leveraged buy-outs for football clubs are bad news. But G&H put more money personally into the club than any FSG investor to date.

 

FSG’s interests and ours are not aligned. They are in it for a profit. We are in it to win things. Chelsea, Man City, and Barca are losing money hand over fist. Winning things does not necessarily equate to profit. The trick is to do well enough.

 

The windfall extra income from Ayre’s shirt deal, the TV deal and the new Barclays PL deal are exactly what FSG are in it for. Millions extra in- nothing out.

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agree xeres otherwise if they really wanted success they go for it a bite, like chelsea are doing now at the moment. buying quality brings success they said there here to win but they must realise in order for that, there going to need to spend a whole lot of dosh.

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And only 8 years to start seeing a return, assuming none of that money is spend. Only 8 years to wait, assuming none of it's spent, which it will be, to see their 1.5m share. I'm sure people with hundreds of millions, or billions, are really waiting on that money, mate!

 

 

 

Above the asking price, we've seen a loss since they've been here. Splitting profits 20 ways isn't why they got into this. Well, not the only reason, which is my point.

 

huh?

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FSG’s interests and ours are not aligned. They are in it for a profit. We are in it to win things. Chelsea, Man City, and Barca are losing money hand over fist. Winning things does not necessarily equate to profit. The trick is to do well enough.

 

 

The trick for who?

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agree xeres otherwise if they really wanted success they go for it a bite, like chelsea are doing now at the moment. buying quality brings success they said there here to win but they must realise in order for that, there going to need to spend a whole lot of dosh.

 

In the broader sporting sense and specifically in baseball, they realise that perfectly, and although there have been no promises as such they have alluded to the fact that they will "do what it takes" to bring the league championship back to LFC. I see little evidence of that thus far.

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They'll say they're aligned with ours but clearly it's about maximum profit rather than success. The difference between 4th/3rd place and 1st is huge financially. Winning the league doesn't even cross your mind though, you've only been here 5 minutes so I understand that.

 

FSG will sell the club in the next 7 years, I'll bet anyone that. They'll make a good return on investment and we will not have won the league in that time.

 

I still stand by the point I made in my last post. That is, H&G were not trying to increase the value of their asset but were more interested in minimizing their risk. You can say they put more of their own money in but you need to subtract the acquisition debt they saddled the club with from that. FSG cleared 250 million of that debt, that is a substantial investment.

 

FSG are trying to increase the value of their asset. Now we can argue about whether that means 4th place or 1st place but all Im saying is its a completely different proposition from H&G. Its much better for us. Even if like you say they sell us in the next 7 years, I firmly believe we will be much better off than when they got us. We will be a more valuable asset, which is the reason why they might sell.

 

The windfall extra income from Ayre’s shirt deal, the TV deal and the new Barclays PL deal are exactly what FSG are in it for. Millions extra in- nothing out.

 

These windfalls benefit the club as well as the owners. A perfect example. And you can't claim that we haven't been allowed to spend what we earn. We've seen a host of expensive transfers since FSG came in.

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Guest ShoePiss

I'm not going to read beyond that opening sentence, I can't be arsed. You don't know what you're talking about.

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The reality is these guys need to invest in the team and get them competing in Champions League if they are to maintain the value of their asset

 

Another season like last and the brand will be in tatters globally

 

They surely must realise that

 

My guess is once we have offloaded some of the higher earners we will be spending more money

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