Glasgow Rangers go in to liquidation

[clangers]

Terrible situation and I have genuine sympathy with Rangers fans, the mismanagement within the club is something that's difficult to comprehend.

 

Best they can hope for is starting again in the third division and hope that they can hold onto a few players. The newco's stance of transferring player contracts is questionable at best and legal opinion seems to be against them.

 

I'd suggest that any Celtic fans enjoying the demise of their rivals should think again, without any genuine competition they may well find this damages their club in the long run as well.

[WaltonRed]

I get what you mean Leburnum but to be fair you might not of attracted some of the players you did get which made the difference which is alls i'm saying mate!

[FanchesterCity]

Fanchester you've got it wrong, the new gers isnt anything other than the old gers, punished for fucking it up royally

 

in my eyes they still have their trophies, its still the same club, just a different operating name for the company

 

didnt our company name change? have we not won 18 leagues etc etc

 

Isn't that what I said?

 

Although - I'll say again, from the 'technical' point of view, they DON'T carry over the honours they previously won, or any of the 'rewards' (like CL index points etc). They get to keep any physical trophies they won, but only as pieces of metal - like keeping your grandad's war medals - they aren't 'won' by the NewCo (in the eyes of the footballing authorities).

 

To the fans (as I said) it's just a new company letter head and still the same club / team.... just like it would be if Kenny started 'Anfield FC' (if Liverpool went bust).

[Bjornebye]

they still 'won' trophies illegally. No fucking 2 ways about it and those trophies won when they were thieving should be taken away as they were not won properly! simple. It happens all round europe. Marseilles, Milan etc.

[fowler9]

are they trying to retain player contracts in order to sell them? because surely if they keep them on their old contracts and big wages whilst playing in Division One with no Europe or TV money its just going to start the same cycle all over again

[FanchesterCity]

are they trying to retain player contracts in order to sell them? because surely if they keep them on their old contracts and big wages whilst playing in Division One with no Europe or TV money its just going to start the same cycle all over again

 

My understanding is that as part of liquidation and any subsequent purchase of the assets is that TUPE covers two possible outcomes:

 

1) The liabilities / existing contracts of employees are honoured as part of the agreement.

I doubt that was agreed, because the players would be on very good contracts which wouldn't be affordable by NewCo.

NewCo COULD renegotiate the contracts, but that would require the players to agree - which is unlikely when their existing terms are better!

 

2) The liabilities / existing contracts of employees are not honoured as part of the agreement.

In this instance, the players can simply walk - they're out of a job (although could be offered new terms with NewCo)

[WaltonRed]

they still 'won' trophies illegally. No fucking 2 ways about it and those trophies won when they were thieving should be taken away as they were not won properly! simple. It happens all round europe. Marseilles, Milan etc.

 

I'm not saying they shouldnt lose those trophies won when they were on the fiddle, they should but they'd still be on a massive amount of cups and leagues

 

Marseilles never had their European Cup win took off them for the record

[FanchesterCity]

I'm not sure Rangers won anything illegally did they?

Has that actually been established? - it's news to me if it has.

 

What they possibly (and probably did) was mismanage their finances over a number of years and over spent, which resulted in success on the pitch and disaster off it... but that's not illegal.

 

If they lied to, or broke any SFA rules, then whilst not illegal, that would be a fair argument for saying "you cheated, so you lose the trophy".

 

But again, this is a brand new football club. They don't have a single trophy. They've never played a game in their history. If Newco Rangers did an advertising campaign saying "former league winners" - they'd be be in trouble.

 

Only the fans will treat them as the same old Rangers (as any fan would if it was their club).

[xerxes]

I'm not sure Rangers won anything illegally did they?

Has that actually been established? - it's news to me if it has.

 

A question designed to keep lawyers in Ferraris for years.

 

If Rangers made illegal payments to players ( contractual EBTs), and other clubs paid within the law of the land, that gave them an illegal advantage on the pitch via their ability to buy better players. Is that the same as winning illegally?

 

If Rangers pocketed statutory deductions whilst other clubs paid theirs that again gave Rangers the above advantage on the pitch, a greater disposable income.

 

My own view is that there is a difference between recklessness (Ridsdale at Leeds) and fraud, which may have occurred at Ibrox.

 

There is a further grey area as demonstrated at Pompey when club officials spend money they know the club does not have simply to line their own pockets with short term profits which they know will be wiped out by long term shortfalls.

[WaltonRed]

good luck to them with their protest tonight at ibrox

[Laburnum]

EBT's were used and declared on the annual accounts for many years. Indeed Celtic had intended using these but a new director with some better knowledge than those advising Rangers, changed that around. I am told David Murray was advised they would cause problems but ignored the advice. I don't know the whole saga. They are not illegal, just the way we were using them that is under investigation. Ask a Celtic fan they no everything there is to know and I'm not kidding. They knew the shit was hitting the fan long before we did! Anyway our problems continue and the news today is the Yorkshireman is planning to transfer Ibrox and our training ground to a different company and lease it back to us. Word is Craig Whyte is behind this still as he still has the floating charge! There one helluva lot of illegal shit going on! As said yesterday, EVERY day brings more bad news. Strong suggestions that we will not kick a ball this season growing by the day.

[Laburnum]

For anyone interested.....

 

Rangers’ takeover consortium has hived off Ibrox and Murray Park to a separate new company.

 

Sevco Scotland Limited has applied to the Registers of Scotland for the title deeds for the stadium and the training ground Murray Park, as well as the Albion car park, to be disposed to it.

 

The company, whose sole director is Charles Green, is separate from the 'newco' that was due to receive the club’s assets as previously identified by administrators Duff and Phelps.

 

According to proposals sent out to creditors owed £124m by the club, the new business entity that would hold the assets of the club was Sevco 5088 Limited, established by London law firm Field Fisher Waterhouse, which is advising Mr Green’s consortium on the takeover.

 

Sevco Scotland Limited, which was incorporated on May 29, made applications to transfer the title deeds of the property on June 15, the day after Mr Green held a media conference at Ibrox with the consortium’s 'financial adviser', Imran Ahmad, where he announced the purchase of the club’s assets had gone ahead.

 

The asset sale to a newco came after the proposed company voluntary arrangement (CVA) offer to creditors, funded by an £8.5m loan from Sevco, was rejected by HM Revenue and Customs (HMRC).

 

According to the title deeds lodge with the Registry of Scotland, the floating charge transferred to previous owner Craig Whyte is still outstanding over the Murray Park training ground in Auchenhowie Road, Milngavie. The standard security to the Scottish Sports Council over the facility, created in 2002, is also still active according to the registry.

 

Under the purchase of the club’s assets outlined by Duff and Phelps, Green’s consortium wear to put £5.5m into Rangers FC plc, before the property and other assets were transferred to the newco, Sevco 5088.

 

The relationship between the two Sevco companies is currently unclear, while Mr Green is also listed as the sole director of another business entity called RFC 2012 Limited, which was incorporated last Thursday, June 21.

[xerxes]

EBT's were used and declared on the annual accounts for many years. ........ As said yesterday, EVERY day brings more bad news. Strong suggestions that we will not kick a ball this season growing by the day.

 

No-one is challenging the legality of EBT's. The case that HMRC have is that they were exercised illegally, which is different.

 

I agree with you that with the probability of more bad news to come, and then the HMRC personal court cases to follow, the scutiny of how Rangers newco is comprised will be intense putting enormous pressure on it.

 

Clearly there will be a temptation to get up and runnning as soon as possible. But the sooner that happens, the closer the past is.

 

I am not clear about what the fans protest last night was supposed to achieve, but if ever there was an opportunity for fan ownership, here it is.

[RobbieOR]

Terrible situation and I have genuine sympathy with Rangers fans, the mismanagement within the club is something that's difficult to comprehend.

 

Best they can hope for is starting again in the third division and hope that they can hold onto a few players. The newco's stance of transferring player contracts is questionable at best and legal opinion seems to be against them.

 

I'd suggest that any Celtic fans enjoying the demise of their rivals should think again, without any genuine competition they may well find this damages their club in the long run as well.

 

Why would it harm them?

 

They could halve their wage bill and still win the league. They wouldnt be spending loads to catch up so they could try and start from scratch again themselves and be run fairly sound.

[RobbieOR]

I'm not sure Rangers won anything illegally did they?

Has that actually been established? - it's news to me if it has.

 

What they possibly (and probably did) was mismanage their finances over a number of years and over spent, which resulted in success on the pitch and disaster off it... but that's not illegal.

 

If they lied to, or broke any SFA rules, then whilst not illegal, that would be a fair argument for saying "you cheated, so you lose the trophy".

 

But again, this is a brand new football club. They don't have a single trophy. They've never played a game in their history. If Newco Rangers did an advertising campaign saying "former league winners" - they'd be be in trouble.

 

Only the fans will treat them as the same old Rangers (as any fan would if it was their club).

 

They broke the rules.

 

They were cheating.

[Jonny83]

So if Rangers do indeed not kick a ball this season, then what? I assume there'd be cascading promotions creating a space in Division 3 which in my scenario would have (rightfully) gone to the new Rangers, but if they aren't in a position to take that place, would another regional league team be elected in as Annan were a few years ago after the Gretna thing, or would the spot be left open for a year with Div 3 having one less team in the hope that the (or 'a') newco could be in position 12 months down the line? (I personally wouldn't agree with that)

 

And if the spot is filled, then that basically leaves Rangers (in any shape or form) locked out until another team hits the wall doesn't it? Scottish football badly needs a proper pyramid system.

[WaltonRed]

rob showing his celtic support ere i reckon.

 

green should not be allowed to hive off ibrox and murray park then lease them back, its all one big fucking mess

[RobbieOR]

I dont support Celtic.

 

Rangers broke the rules, they deserve to be punished. If they werent one of the Old Firm they'd have been told to get fucked months ago.

[WaltonRed]

Not even a wee bit of sympathy for them?

 

Celtic broke them too, nowt happening to them.

[RobbieOR]

Not even a wee bit of sympathy for them?

 

Celtic broke them too, nowt happening to them.

 

For the fans, yes.

 

But there are rules. You cant just throw a blind eye to these things.

[Whelan]

Marseille and Juventus were found guilty of bribing Referees and opposition players, very different from tax evasion.

[Bjornebye]

they broke the fucking rules so fuck em

 

it's shit for football but rules are rules and if it wasn't them or Celtic then we wouldn't still be talking about it in a present tense

 

last i heard they are joining div 1.

[Whelan]

We broke the Rules with Zigge, so does that mean we get the 3 trophies taken from us then?

[Bjornebye]

Not on the same scale is it you plum. this has been going on for years and is blatant as fuck. it's a shitter on the fans of course but those that run and ran the club ahve caused this. so... as i said - fuck em.

[Whelan]

Well, first point. Tax evasion is not on the same scale as fixing fucking matches is it? (you plum!), second point. If you are going to demand action, then don't base it on arbitrary opinions, otherwise you might get pulled up and start calling people plums because they questioned your opinion.