Syria

[WaltonRed]

another massacre in Syria tonight including the murder of 35 members of the one family.

 

Women and Children chased down and shot or stabbed.

 

BBC News - New 'massacre' reported in Syria's Hama province

 

How longer can the West sit back and let it happen?

[Chairman Meow]

How longer can the West sit back and let it happen?

 

When we discover they have some natural resources we want seems to be the usual tipping point.

[Paulie Dangerously]

When we discover they have some natural resources we want seems to be the usual tipping point.

 

/thread.

[Section_31]

another massacre in Syria tonight including the murder of 35 members of the one family.

 

Women and Children chased down and shot or stabbed.

 

BBC News - New 'massacre' reported in Syria's Hama province

 

How longer can the West sit back and let it happen?

 

There's other things at play here though. It's more than likely a fundamentalist group carrying out these type of attacks and the regime is taking the heat.

 

Syria's military is relatively well organised and 'professional' by Middle Eastern standards, and while I'm sure they're more than capable of stooping to this kind of low, there's absolutely nothing to be gained by it, especially when you see how much Assad values his PR. He's not some despot who poses in front of the camera with a gold-plated AK47, he wants to be seen as legitimate.

 

These so called Arab spring uprisings have allowed fundamentalist forces to play their game, as they hate these iron first type rulers as much as the West does.

 

The irony is these despots kept a lid on a lot of ethnic and religious tensions in the region, but that's gone and the place is now a powder keg.

 

Got to love the West's crocodile tears at things like this though, seeing as not so long ago the yanks were firing uranium-depleted shells into Fallujah, and their bombs have ruined more weddings than rain.

[WaltonRed]

I get what you mean by your last point Section and I feel for the people killed by the West as much as I do for these people

 

The whole region is just in a shit storm at the minute

 

With Russia and China backing assad and Irans leader having been in Beijing this week it doesnt bode well, then you have Leon Panetta today saying 'the US is running out of patience with Pakistan' the whole thing could get scary quickly

 

Just like after the 30's depression there's one thing which gets economy's going and its a fuck off war

 

we got 60 years of boom and good times out of it last time too (yanks more than us but you get the point)

[Sugar Ape]

Horrible video here on The Guardian newsfeed, wouldn't recommend opening it in work. It's at 3.32pm.

 

3.22pm: Syria: This disturbing video (warning: very graphic) was posted online yesterday. It purports to show Syrian soldiers and shabiha (pro-Assad militia) entertaining themselves amid a group of corpses. They eventually move the dead bodies into a building to burn them. The video was said to be filmed in Hammameh, Idlib. Reports suggest it may have been filmed in March. It is not known why/how the video has come to light at this time. There is a partial transcript below the video. WARNING: GRAPHIC CONTENT.

 

Syria live: UN monitors arrive in al-Qubair | World news | guardian.co.uk

[Tossed and blown]

Horrible video here on The Guardian newsfeed, wouldn't recommend opening it in work. It's at 3.32pm.

 

You got that right. Soldiers wearing nasty hi-tec traineys and one of the stiffs sporting a snide adidas tracky. Horrific scenes.

[Sugar Ape]

 

Precisely what I'm talking about, I half expected someone to show up in an Ellesse jumper!

[Lurtz]

So what's the deal here then? Is it gangs of "terrorists" carrying out these murders or is Assad lying out of his arse? Why do China and Russia back Assad but the West want him shot in the face? Is it reasonable to suggest that Assad is telling the truth and that the Arab uprisings are being used as a cover for fundamentalist nutcases trying to discredit him and gain power or is he trying to crush a potential uprising himself?

 

The way even the BBC reports this is so biased it can only be either a proven fact that Assad is lying or there's an orchestrated West-led campaign to oust Assad. I don't know who to believe any more but there must be damn good reasons China and Russia don't want to get involved in an anti Assad campaign.

[WaltonRed]

yeh he lines there pockets Lurtz, plus when the worlds newest superpower China and an old one in Russia see the West going for something they go against it in order to flex power and influence

 

assad is lying out his arse, its his militia's doing it

 

dont deny there is a western led campaign to get him plus if it was muslim terrorists doing it, it wouldnt be wise for us to back it when syria is so important to the middle east in terms of geographical position and size/power of it, if it went muslim Iran style we'd be fucked

[Lurtz]

yeh he lines there pockets Lurtz, plus when the worlds newest superpower China and an old one in Russia see the West going for something they go against it in order to flex power and influence

 

assad is lying out his arse, its his militia's doing it

 

dont deny there is a western led campaign to get him plus if it was muslim terrorists doing it, it wouldnt be wise for us to back it when syria is so important to the middle east in terms of geographical position and size/power of it, if it went muslim Iran style we'd be fucked

 

So if there is a West-led campaign to oust Assad what's the likely outcome? A muslim fundamentalist regime the way Egypt looks to be heading or something less hardline?

[WaltonRed]

the way i see it, and this isnt the way the west sees it is if the people of syria want to go hardline muslim then let them, its nothing to do with us.

 

I think the west would like democracy aslong as the person who wins serves them, the way assad did until he started killing his own people

[Stu Monty]

They are aligned with Russia and China, hence why we are hearing a lot about his.

 

Bahrain and Honduras...not so much.

[Section_31]

Attacks yesterday included a strike on 100 'Russian workers'. No doubt these contractors were of a Spetznaz variety.

[Guest Scaramanga]

Attacks yesterday included a strike on 100 'Russian workers'. No doubt these contractors were of a Spetznaz variety.

 

 

That's not as far away from the truth as you'd believe dude. There are "unofficially" British & US troops in Syria at the moment, arming rebels. A la Libya. I'll dig out the link to this if I don't fall asleep later.

 

Although fuck all to do with us, I think it's only a matter of time before UN intervention (UK & US troops). Only they might find Syria a tougher nut to crack than Libya.

[Stu Monty]

You don't even need to put your own boots and flag on the ground now. Why would you leave a footprint when you can just pay the likes of Xe/Blackwater to go and do the job for you.

 

You know on the news when they show you the forces coming home to prove that we're pulling out of somewhere? Irrelevant. Show me the money. Show me the contracts.

[Guest Scaramanga]

Here it is:

 

Leaked Memo Says US SOF in Syria | Military.com

 

Pentagon dude says there isn't, so there probably is. 3 months old so you can imagine how far down the line an "intervention" is.

[Stu Monty]

"A private intelligence gathering acency".

 

Which is cool.

 

Obviously.

[Guest Scaramanga]

So what's the deal here then? Is it gangs of "terrorists" carrying out these murders or is Assad lying out of his arse? Why do China and Russia back Assad but the West want him shot in the face? Is it reasonable to suggest that Assad is telling the truth and that the Arab uprisings are being used as a cover for fundamentalist nutcases trying to discredit him and gain power or is he trying to crush a potential uprising himself?

 

The way even the BBC reports this is so biased it can only be either a proven fact that Assad is lying or there's an orchestrated West-led campaign to oust Assad. I don't know who to believe any more but there must be damn good reasons China and Russia don't want to get involved in an anti Assad campaign.

 

I think the only way to be 100% sure is to go over and have a look for your self dude. I've seen a number of contradictory reports from numerous sources so you don't really know what to believe.

 

Russia's interests (as always) come from the fact that annual arms exports to Syria accounted for nearly $2 billion last year and probably more/less this year. That doesn't include support/update contracts which can be colossal (similar to US involvement in Egypt). They won't want their products being turned into scrap by US & UK hardware, and they won't want to lose a $2 billion trading partner.

 

China sells hardware to Syria as well, although they won't admit it, I don't know enough about Syrian geography to know if they have abundant natural resources as is the case with a few African countries the Chinese have got their mitts into.

 

Like Stu Monty said, it's all about the money, all about the contracts.

[WaltonRed]

every war ever has been about resources and money, the people element is just a means go gain public support

 

We'll have SaS in their defo.

 

I think the syrians will do as most army's do when faces with america, they abandon there leader and desert

 

they'll hate him as much as the libyans hated the colonel

[silverlining]

Is there any conflict, tragedy or atrocity anywhere in the world that some squalling, right-on mongs couldn't eventually blame "the West/ America" for?

[VladimirIlyich]

Is there any conflict, tragedy or atrocity anywhere in the world that some squalling, right-on mongs couldn't eventually blame "the West/ America" for?

 

No because they usually are.

[Guest Scaramanga]

Is there any conflict, tragedy or atrocity anywhere in the world that some squalling, right-on mongs couldn't eventually blame "the West/ America" for?

 

India v China springs to mind dude, and you'd need to be a spastic of the highest order to link that back to the West.

[silverlining]

India v China springs to mind dude, and you'd need to be a spastic of the highest order to link that back to the West.

 

I'm sure someone will have a good go

[Guest Numero Veinticinco]

Does anybody support intervention?