Brendan Rodgers, a statistical overview of Swansea 11/12.

[lifetime fan]

Its no problem to make a valid assumption of something football related by just looking at stats as long as you actually have a bit of football knowledge and knows how to fit the stats into a context.

 

The end.

 

I wish it were.

[KOP123]

i agree, it's the fitting the stats into context and more importantly, knowing how to interprit them properly which is my point

[DooooodekNo5]

Its no problem to make a valid assumption of something football related by just looking at stats as long as you actually have a bit of football knowledge and knows how to fit the stats into a context.

 

The end.

 

Fuck me that would be nice but you're only saying that to save yourself being further embarassed by what KOP123 has to say ,why cut him off like that ? why no attempt to engage in discussion with him ? bizarre considering you are well known on here to be in love with stats and base your opinions on them.

 

Anyway here we have it a genuine trained stat man saying football stats in the main dont mean much at all, stick that up your arse and smoke it Code you boring attention seeking wanker.

[Unrighteous]

The stats, Code, are actually pretty great for Swansea. Look at their payroll, and investment in the squad.

 

You state that 'home points' aren't the problem here at Liverpool. They seriously were last season... Home points pretty much sunk our ship didn't they? Can you put up our home and away results last year, so we can compare? I see some big scalps in their home wins. Liverpool, Arsenal, Man City, etc.

[Yoda]

fair enough, i would probably have taken the piss myself in your position given what i said, but you must agree if FSG are speaking to the likes of tompkins, and the dickhead does'nt know what he is talking about, it cant be a good thing for the club, surley

 

He can probably spell quantifiable though

[Hand Shandy]

Its no problem to make a valid assumption of something football related by just looking at stats as long as you actually have a bit of football knowledge and knows how to fit the stats into a context.

 

The end.

 

It's the football knowledge bit that let's you down...

[M_B]

How much did he spend to achieve 11th (and 5 points less than us) in the league? I suspect that will be the statistic FSG looked at.

[xerxes]

Different club, different players, different resources.

 

It's the exact same thing as the Martinez and Wigan conceded x amount of goals theory. It doesn't mean because Swansea's or Wigan's defence conceded this or did that, then Skrtel and Agger or whoever is playing at Liverpool will do the same.

 

It makes no sense, the man worked miracles with the resources available.

 

Compare his stats to Klopp's before Dortmund, Rafa's before Valencia, Ferguson's before Man Utd and Wenger's before Arsenal.

 

I agree with all of that.

 

The bigger queston mark for me is that it was Martinez who established Swansea's style of play - not Rodgers.

 

My view is that Martinez has stronger credentials than Rodgers.

 

But who knows what Rodgers can do with our underperforming superstars? And i wonder whether kenny would have kept Wigan or Swansea up?

[Kennys_spell]

LOTS OF STATS

 

I pulled one off to that - I only got to "Home draws" and couldn't hold back.

 

can't wait to read the second half of it.

[stringvest]

 

Fuck me that would be nice but you're only saying that to save yourself being further embarassed by what KOP123 has to say ,why cut him off like that ? why no attempt to engage in discussion with him ? bizarre considering you are well known on here to be in love with stats and base your opinions on them.

 

Anyway here we have it a genuine trained stat man saying football stats in the main dont mean much at all, stick that up your arse and smoke it Code you boring attention seeking wanker.

 

There is no need for that. Code had said he wasn't interpreting the stats as he didn't have time in the op, do I've no idea why you choose to jump down his throat. Actually we all know why, but code brings more to the site than you do, so why not cut out the bile and the abuse?

 

There are plenty of others on here who bring half brained analysis of stats when in suits them. Have a go at them, because most of them know fuck all about football.

[Mike84]

For someone who hates rafa, you do like ya facts.

[Kennys_spell]

i very really post, but on this issue i am an authority. I have a degree in maths and statistics, and although now a i am a freelance I.T consultant now , previously i was a professional statistician.

I wont bore you with statisical thoery, but basically there are two types of variables in statistics, quantifyable variables, such as the average ground a player covers per game, and non-quantifyiable variables, such as a players ability to read the game, a metric is it impossible to put a numerical scale against.

The most dangerous thing i have ever incounted in my career is to give a statistic to a non-statistician in order for them to make a business decision on. Non-statisticians THINK they know how to inteprtrit stats, in reality they dont.

a simple example would be a stat on the distance a central midfielder covers in a game, one could cover 12k, another 8k, placing that statistic in front of a non-statistician the ametueur would say it's a non-brainer, go with the 12k guy.

A trained statistician would say, hang on, what are the non -quantifiable variables around this issue, does the 8k player play on a smaller home ground pitch ? does the 8k players manager instruction him to sit deep and hold even though he has a great engine ? if the 8k player plays abroad, does he play in a hot climate which would reduce the distance he covers? etc, because the stats say he covers more ground, stats can never cater for non-quantiftable vaiables like didi hamman stopping an attack at source by simply steeping 5 yards to his right, eye-balling the oppsoition mid-fielder and saying donet even think about in son i've got it covered, where as a lee cattermole would have great stats because he runs round like an idiot because he cant read the game very well!

it really pisses me off when i see the likes of tompkins potificanting on statistics when the idiot has not got the first clue how to interpert them properly, again an example of the most dangerous scenario possible, letting non-statisticians form conclusions on statistics they simply dont know how to interprit properly

 

Throughout my life I've heard of this phenomenon but never actually thought I'd see it in real life - the opening of a can of worms!

 

*Ticks off another item on "bucket list".

[Redder Lurtz]

This took a bit too much time and I was going to comment on most things to see if I could find a conclusion, but for now let me just add that its fuckin ridiculous that we sacked dalglish to appoint Rodgers.

 

 

You do realise it was the PLAYERS who contributed more significantly to those statistsics than anyone else don't you? ie the resource the manager had at his disposal. ie a lower standard of player than we have at Liverpool.

 

It's good of you to put this together but in the context of the Liverpool squad this is 100% fucking meaningless. I'm sure a Swansea fanzine site would be interested though.

[Guest TK-421]

I got a 'U' for my maths a level and completely failed at stats.

 

However, under Rodgers i can confirm that we are royally screwed.

[Kennys_spell]

Its no problem to make a valid assumption of something football related by just looking at stats as long as you actually have a bit of football knowledge and knows how to fit the stats into a context.

 

The end.

 

Can anyone see the glaring gap in what is required to make this statement valid?

 

HINT: "have a bit of football knowledge"

[Kennys_spell]

I got a 'U' for my maths a level and completely failed at stats.

 

However, under Rodgers i can confirm that we are royally screwed.

 

I went to Blessed Ambrose Barlow (it's the deaf school now) and spent more time in Woolworths in Tuebrook trying to nick the broken biscuits than I did in school.

 

Blessed Ambrose Barlow didn't have posh stuff like "Maths" and "Statistics".

[Redder Lurtz]

I got a 'U' for my maths a level and completely failed at stats.

 

However, under Rodgers i can confirm that we are royally screwed.

 

Well I hate to remind you of this but you're in a small minority 10% of site members who think that. You've got quite a big voice on here though so the perception will be that statistically more people that 10% agree with you.

 

I think I'll be staying the fuck away from here until we start signing some players. As if the negativity on here isn't enough I even had one member texting me last night to tell me how pissed off they were with this appointment.

 

We're fucking Liverpool supporters aren't we? And aren't most of you socialists? What happened to giving a bloke a crack of the whip, an opportunity to have a go and prove his worth, before jumping all over his fucking back and proclaiming how "royally screwed" we are. Fucking pathetic.

 

Maybe it won't work out for him but right now he's our manager, he's just signed and I'm going to support the bloke with cautious optimism. Give the bloke a fucking chance will you, you miserable bunch of cunts.

[cuppatea]

Jesus Christ, fans really are stupid enough to believe that by appointing a manager we will become whatever team they were previously managing. That's why everyone was wanking themselves into a frenzy at the idea of us getting Guardiola, not because they rated his ability or thought his situation at Barca was applicable here but because they genuinely believed that if we brought him in, we would be like Barcelona, just like they think if we hire Rodgers we will become Swansea. It's fucking comical.

[Kennys_spell]

Code had said he wasn't interpreting the stats as he didn't have time in the op.

 

Did you get that from his OP? I got that he typed that many stats that he got bored and couldn't bothered.

[piscinin]

i am in 100% agreement with you mate, stats might work in sports like baseball or cricket, it never will in football, like you said, what we need is football people who actually know what they are doing

 

that's a bit of a sweeping generalization, no? There's a big difference between someone assuming you can judge a CM by the distance they cover and establishing a zonal marking scheme for corners.

[piscinin]

You do realise it was the PLAYERS who contributed more significantly to those statistsics than anyone else don't you? ie the resource the manager had at his disposal. ie a lower standard of player than we have at Liverpool.

 

So we should have sacked the players and not hodgson. I see where we went wrong now!

[Code]

The stats, Code, are actually pretty great for Swansea. Look at their payroll, and investment in the squad.

 

You state that 'home points' aren't the problem here at Liverpool. They seriously were last season... Home points pretty much sunk our ship didn't they? Can you put up our home and away results last year, so we can compare? I see some big scalps in their home wins. Liverpool, Arsenal, Man City, etc.

 

I'm not going to break them down as most of us should be aware of our results at home.

 

Our home results absolutely killed us last season, but we did not get our first loss before Arsenal at home in March.

We ended up with 9 draws and 4 losses though, but if we had looked at it in a more historical perspective lets say the last 12 years we would look at last season as breaking the pattern and something that probably would not happen again next season.

 

Liverpool home stats 00/12:

11/12: 19 6 9 4 24-16 27p

10/11: 19 12 4 3 37-14 40p

09/10: 19 13 3 3 43-15 42p

08/09: 19 12 7 0 41-13 43p

07/08: 19 12 6 1 43-13 42p

06/07: 19 14 4 1 39-7 46p

05/06: 19 15 3 1 32-8 48p

04/05: 19 12 4 3 31-15 40p

03/04: 19 10 4 5 29-15 34p

02/03: 19 9 8 2 30-16 35p

01/02: 19 12 5 2 33-14 41p

00/01: 19 13 4 2 40-14 43p

[Redder Lurtz]

So we should have sacked the players and not hodgson. I see where we went wrong now!

 

Paul Konchesky. Christian Poulsen. An unwillingness to play players to their strengths, an inherent damage limitation mindset from Hodgson. They are some of the reasons we sacked Hodgson.

 

Rodgers' team played passing attacking football. It might, just might, follow that the same ethic with better players would produce better results over the course of a season than Swansea's.

 

I'm prepared to wait and see if that happens but if you want to jump on the outraged bandwagon you fill your boots mate.

[MichaelThomas]

Different club, different players, different resources.

 

It's the exact same thing as the Martinez and Wigan conceded x amount of goals theory. It doesn't mean because Swansea's or Wigan's defence conceded this or did that, then Skrtel and Agger or whoever is playing at Liverpool will do the same.

 

It makes no sense, the man worked miracles with the resources available.

 

Compare his stats to Klopp's before Dortmund, Rafa's before Valencia, Ferguson's before Man Utd and Wenger's before Arsenal.

 

Would this be the same Ferguson who dominated Scottish football with Aberdeen and beat Real Madrid in a European final? Or the same Wenger who won the French league with Monaco and kept them toe-to-toe with Marseille when Marseille were bribing and doping like mad?

 

Yeah, I can see how Rodgers fits that mould.

[Kennys_spell]

that's a bit of a sweeping generalization, no? There's a big difference between someone assuming you can judge a CM by the distance they cover and establishing a zonal marking scheme for corners.

 

Statistically that's 86.4% correct.

 

I can't show my workings because I did it in my head - I'm dead clever like that!