Jump to content
Guest San Don

LFC approach Wigan for martinez

Recommended Posts

I think they'd just be happy to maintain Liverpool's status as CL stalwarts who consistently reach QF stages and can win it every so often. They'll make money purely from being associated with that alone rather than making money directly from the club per se.

 

Yeah that's what worries me. The rules of the game depend on your goal and they define the risks you are prepared to take. If brand, it's leverage and it's synergizability (choose different words from among those pebble-dashed across Billy Hogan sound bites) are uppermost, you take a chance on Martinez. If winning is your goal, you take a chance on Capello or Benitez or LVG or AVB.

 

How many times in history have four league and european title winners being simultaneously available for a job. And we choose Martinez. Dearie me.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Rodgers has been battered on betfair today, not far off joint fav now which is strange.

 

The amount of effort that has been put into the PR on martinez on lfc.tv makes it very strange. Everyday there's some new ex-player on there touting him. A coincidence I'm sure.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There's been no chatter regarding Rodgers on twitter or anything which means the money has more substance,as it's not idiots lapping up what no marks are saying.

 

He was 7 or 8/1 with William Hill two hours ago,he's now 6/5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
There's been no chatter regarding Rodgers on twitter or anything which means the money has more substance,as it's not idiots lapping up what no marks are saying.

 

He was 7 or 8/1 with William Hill two hours ago,he's now 6/5

 

Been watching the betting through out the day and it certainly dosent appear to be just random money being placed.

 

He is now favourite with a few firms and fully expect him to be favourite across the board when the firms close there books at 10.30pm.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
It isn't in FSG's interest for the club to not be successful. Sacking Kenny shows that they will not tolerate underperformance in the league so this notion that they're consciously planning to just coast along through mediocrity is a bit off the mark for me.

 

Whether you agree with sacking Kenny or not, it does at least show that they won't tolerate under performance, and the bus load of staff from various levels who have also walked further confirms that. Thats why I'm willing to give them a chance whoever the appoint, and wait and see what the new man and the new strategy as a whole has to offer.

 

I've thought a lot about this over the past few days and I've come to the conclusion that as long as you trust that they want success as much as we as fans do, and why would they pay £300m for the club if they didn't, then we have to give them the benefit of the doubt at this point.

 

 

 

Just because they have ambition doesen't mean they have a clue what they are doing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest ShoePiss
If FSG's plans depend on qualification for the champions league,why appoint a manager whose greatest football achievement is not being relegated?

 

Especially when a champions league winner is available.

 

How are they going to explain that? There's going to be a lot of questions asked and they'll have to respond.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
That is very true, and its not a point that escapes me. He isn't "my man" by the way.

 

There are numerous other candidates who'd be better than Martinez. More qualified, more experienced, more capable. I wasn't limiting my point to Rafa.

 

Secondly, what is meant by 'trust'? Trust doesn't necessarily mean being great friends, or even agreeing. For me it should mean having faith in your manager's ability, his decisions and his philosophy. Surely these are more important. I don't see why you wouldn't have that with Rafa, or at least more so than you'd have it with Martinez.

 

The owners aren't going to 'get on' with everybody, nor are they going to agree with everybody. They know nothing about football. Thats why it makes sense to employ a manager who knows a lot, and has proven it. With Martinez we don't know how much he knows, and he certainly hasn't proven anything so far.

 

It's nothing to do with being friends. We can all easily agree on Benitez's achievements and his fantastic start to his career at Liverpool. Where it all goes wrong is people's differing perceptions of his last 18 months at the club. There is more than a bit of the 'battered wives' syndrome at play. It explains why so many fans just cannot understand why FSG haven't brought him straight back.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest ShoePiss

How quickly people forget the systematic asset stripping and undermining of a manager. Shocking. I'm looking at you stringvest.

 

Battered wives syndrome? Fuck does that even mean?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've been in shock at the King's sacking and then in disbelief about the the rumours around Martinez.

 

Now the only positive spin I can put on this baffling sequence of events is that FSG want to follow the Barca model, and also tap into South America. Living as I do in the States, it is clear that South American football has a much higher profile than in other parts of the world, though the major European leagues are clearly the most important. Maybe Martinez being Spanish and having scouted top talent from South America for a fraction of selling-on price are his major assets compared with the likes of Rodgers and AVB, and even the King staying on.

 

The problem is we have no reason to believe that Martinez can manage a team in the top four rather than the bottom four...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest ShoePiss
Going back to the same bloke that keeps knocking you about.

 

Yeah I understand that but the context is baffling, Benitez the abuser? What a joke that is.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Yeah I understand that but the context is baffling, Benitez the abuser? What a joke that is.

 

You never know what you had until it's gone.

Hard to really think (in retrospect) how was let go. I know folks say never go back, but...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Normally I prefer to not comment but the ridiculousness of some of the reactions is doing my head in. Martinez does not get considered for this job if he's shit at his job. I have been quite impressed with him especially his view of the game during the world cup last year when he was on espn

 

On Dave whelan I think he is big talking Martinez because he wants other prospective managers for the wigan job to understand that it is a springboard to the big jobs. That will help him attract the next good young manager who will work for peanuts and develop young players which will cost whelan little and keep wigan in the premier league. I think martinez work specifically with the young players is why he's being consider so highly and also the way he tries to get them to play. The dof position I think is to make sure we get good value for our targets but also we don't make big money mistakes like Stewart downing

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Normally I prefer to not comment but the ridiculousness of some of the reactions is doing my head in. Martinez does not get considered for this job if he's shit at his job. I have been quite impressed with him especially his view of the game during the world cup last year when he was on espn

 

On Dave whelan I think he is big talking Martinez because he wants other prospective managers for the wigan job to understand that it is a springboard to the big jobs. That will help him attract the next good young manager who will work for peanuts and develop young players which will cost whelan little and keep wigan in the premier league. I think martinez work specifically with the young players is why he's being consider so highly and also the way he tries to get them to play. The dof position I think is to make sure we get good value for our targets but also we don't make big money mistakes like Stewart downing

Downing was signed with a DOF in place as was Andy and Jordan.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
If FSG's plans depend on qualification for the champions league,why appoint a manager whose greatest football achievement is not being relegated?

 

Especially when a champions league winner is available.

 

The way FSG have gone about this has introduced a heck of a lot of unnecessary doubt and concern. When an organisation whether it be football or beyond appoint someone to a senior position especially when they are in effect the figurehead for that organisation you head hunt rather than enter into a recruitment process as FSG group are doing. Pivotal roles are all about confidence.

 

If FSG had just announced a couple of days after Kenny's departure here is our new sporting director and manager and this is the structure we've implemented we might not like it but at least we'd be thinking they're implementing a clearly identified plan.

 

As it is it just appears that in reality they have an idea for the structure they want to implement but little else. There needs to be decisiveness at all times when appointing someone to a role as important as manager. They could well end up undermining whoever they appoint before they've even got started.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
If FSG's plans depend on qualification for the champions league,why appoint a manager whose greatest football achievement is not being relegated?

Especially when a champions league winner is available.

 

1.Because of a hope of what he could achieve, given the chance.

2. Because to fall out with one board is bad luck, to fall out with two boards is bad management, to fall out with three successive boards is bad judgement.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1.Because of a hope of what he could achieve, given the chance.

2. Because to fall out with one board is bad luck, to fall out with two boards is bad management, to fall out with three successive boards is bad judgement.

 

If no.2 is an actual issue then why are they looking at Van Gaal for a role within the club, especially a role which requires a lot of compromising and negotiating.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1.Because of a hope of what he could achieve, given the chance.

2. Because to fall out with one board is bad luck, to fall out with two boards is bad management, to fall out with three successive boards is bad judgement.

 

 

Utter shite , biased shite at that . Benitez gives everything to the club he manages and demands the same from the board.

 

Your bias is almost as obvious as codes.

 

Valencia had a massive opportunity to become a major european force with Rafa and failed thanks to the board, our lovely americans had no interest in football and the italians ? not even worth talking about.

 

We had a truely great manager , then there were distractions and now we dont.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Utter shite , biased shite at that . Benitez gives everything to the club he manages and demands the same from the board.

 

Your bias is almost as obvious as codes.

 

Valencia had a massive opportunity to become a major european force with Rafa and failed thanks to the board, our lovely americans had no interest in football and the italians ? not even worth talking about.

 

We had a truely great manager , then there were distractions and now we dont.

 

And herein lies the problem.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Every manager will probably fall out with their board at some time, the issue from FSG's perspective is if someone has a track record for airing the disagreements publicly, which sadly Rafa has. Whether he was right or wrong will likely not come into consideration.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Perhaps I should have said comparable, the fact is Bruce outperformed Martinez with similar budgets.

 

I'm not going to fully quote the list of transfers, because to be honest I found it hard to read, which might be because I've had a day in the sun, did a lot of driving, and have now had a few beers, but Bruce and Martinez did not work on similar budgets.

 

But just going from your numbers, if I have read them right, Bruce had a net spend of about half a million, Martinez's net spend is negative £10m, how is that similar?!?

 

Your numbers are confirmed by Swiss Ramble in his blog from last year, with the numbers taken from the annual reports, although it does not include last season. The Swiss Ramble: Wigan Athletic's Unlikely Survival

 

This table shows the transfer spend, just look at the transfer income of £15m, and remind ourselves it was Martinez's first season. Yes the next season he spends more in one season than any other manager, but it is not even half of what he brought in the season before.

 

21%2BWigan%2BPlayer%2BTrading.jpg

 

I think it should also be pointed out that in Bruce's last season, his net spend was heavily affected by the January sales of Palacios and Heskey. From what I can gather Bruce's net spending the summer before that season was about £7m. At the end of Jan, after 24 games, Wigan were in 7th on 33 points. They then had a big net transfer income in January, but finished the season in 11th on 45 points. So 12 points from the 14 games before Martinez came in. Martinez did not get to spend the money that was brought in in January.

 

The next thing to look at is wages, which is the biggest single predictor of final league position. This table shows that wages dropped by almost £3m after Martinez came in.

 

18%2BWigan%2BWages%2BTurnover.jpg

 

Before anyone says its still more than Bruce got spend on wages in 2008, we need to remember its all relative, and that a new TV package for the Prem was signed from the 2009/10 season, which was 5% higher, so the other clubs were spending more on wages when Wigan were spending less. If we compare Wigan to the teams they compete against from 2009/10 to 2010/11 (taken from here Revealed: the financial health of the Premier League laid bare - Telegraph, last season's figures won't be available until next season), Wigan went from £39.4m to £39.9m, Wolves went from £30m to £38m, Blackburn from £47m to £50m, Bolton from £46m to £56m, Stoke from £45m to £47m, West Ham from £54m to £56m, Fulham from £49m to £58m.

 

So Wigan have gone backwards on wages since Bruce left, whilst everyone else has been spending more, and Martinez has had a net transfer nicome of about £10m. So whether you think Martinez is good enough or not, lets at least stop with these comparisons with Bruce as they were simply not under the same conditions.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×