LFC approach Wigan for martinez

[RedRazor]

Hes the very definition of "flavour of the month". That last few weeks of the season is what is getting him this job. There is no way he would be considered had he lost a couple of those games in that time and been relegated.

I'm not so sure. If FSG can sack Kenny for not getting a CL place what would impress them about avoiding relegation (or not)?

 

Clearly, they think he has the qualities that they think they need. But if they are truly as incompetent as I suspect them to be this is no longer a surprise.

[Il Fenomeno]

There is a difference in that Martinez tries to play good football all costs whereas Bruce doesn't even try to play football. If able to command the respect of his players, Martinez, despite all of the doubts I harbour, COULD be a formidable manager in tandem with a good defensive coach.

 

Why not get Gianfranco Zola then?

 

If narrowly avoiding relegation while trying to play good football is part of the job requirement.

 

And it says a lot about media perceptions when people keep repeating the fact Wigan play "good football". They actually don't most of the games I've watched of Wigan from last season they were pinned into their own box for most of the game, even against teams like Wolves.

 

Martinez is just the opposite of Steve Bruce, Bruce starts the season well and then collapses in the second half so people always think that he's done really poor while Martinez starts the season poorly then gets a couple of good results towards the end and those are the results everybody remembers so he's got some sort of brilliant reputation as a guy who's getting Wigan punching above their weight.

[cuppatea]

I'm not so sure. If FSG can sack Kenny for not getting a CL place what would impress them about avoiding relegation (or not)?

 

Clearly, they think he has the qualities that they think they need. But if they are truly as incompetent as I suspect them to be this is no longer a surprise.

 

Why do people keep saying Kenny was sacked for not qualifying for the Champions League, as though we missed out by a point? We were closer to the relegation zone, with our lowest ever Premier League points total.

[kalasoma]

I thought Fulham played good football this season. How much would it cost to get Jol out of his contract? It's a bit left-field, but no more crazy than courting Martinez.

[RedRazor]

Why do people keep saying Kenny was sacked for not qualifying for the Champions League, as though we missed out by a point? We were closer to the relegation zone, with our lowest ever Premier League points total.

The club only had one target - qualify for CL. It is in the financial report.

 

Whether we failed by one point or 21 points doesn't make much difference. KD missed the only target he had and paid the price.

[jackofdk]

The club only had one target - qualify for CL. It is in the financial report.

 

Whether we failed by one point or 21 points doesn't make much difference. KD missed the only target he had and paid the price.

 

I realize that it isn't easy at this moment when the internet is launching into overdrive over their every move, but to be kind of fair to the yankees, Kenny didn't just miss out on fourth - his team delivered one of the worst league seasons in Liverpool's modern history.

[RedRazor]

I realize that it isn't easy at this moment when the internet is launching into overdrive over their every move, but to be kind of fair to the yankees, Kenny didn't just miss out on fourth - his team delivered one of the worst league seasons in Liverpool's modern history.

I don't disagree. The season fell apart after the defeat by Arsenal.

My view is that KD wrote off the league at this point to focus on the cups - on reflection a big error of judgement. Defeats by Sunderland, QPR, Wigan, West Brom, Fulham and Swansea in our final twelve games are not good enough. But I still think he should have got one more season.

[jackofdk]

I don't disagree. The season fell apart after the defeat by Arsenal.

My view is that KD wrote off the league at this point to focus on the cups - on reflection a big error of judgement. Defeats by Sunderland, QPR, Wigan, West Brom, Fulham and Swansea in our final twelve games are not good enough. But I still think he should have got one more season.

 

I agree on all counts, and I'd have given him another season to try and put it right, too. I just think it is being unfair to say that missing fourth cost him the job, when the reality is that after expensively assembling his own side, Kenny lost as many as he won in the league and finished below Everton level on points with Fulham.

[FanchesterCity]

Yes, it's ironic, but Sky can't be blamed for feeding money into the system, and clubs picking it up.

 

The direct blame lies with a booming banking industry, which is only too eager to come knocking on club's doors, with a 'hey see all that t.v. revenue'....'that's future income streams that guarantee you a nice fat juicy loan to do what you want with right now.'

 

I think you're right there. Instead of thinking "brilliant, we can secure the futures of our clubs now" they've gone and spent the future, and are starting to realise if they lose their league positions, or the money drops off in any way, they're in trouble.

 

Definitely not Sky's fault, just bad handling of the Sky money, and now clubs are being circled over by the investment vultures looking the 'rescue' clubs having a few difficulties.

 

God help a club like United if they drop out of the top 4 - could be another Rangers if that happened. *Perks up a bit*

[FanchesterCity]

The club only had one target - qualify for CL. It is in the financial report.

 

Whether we failed by one point or 21 points doesn't make much difference. KD missed the only target he had and paid the price.

 

Been saying that too. I'm totally correct.

It was the same target for Mark Hughes and Mancini.

 

The entire objective for any top club now is CL. Not winning the league, or winning a domestic trophy, and even then, you have to do fairly well in it (last 16 at least)

 

It's not just the prize money (think it's about 30 million if you win it), but all the extra TV money on top of that and sponsorship / brand etc etc

[tomyam scouse]

The club only had one target - qualify for CL. It is in the financial report.

 

Whether we failed by one point or 21 points doesn't make much difference. KD missed the only target he had and paid the price.

 

That's ridiculous. Missing an ambitious target by a shade and missing it by a mile are totally different things. It's a judgement call, not a lottery.

 

Presumably the judgement was that KK had essentially no chance of meeting the target for next year, given the performance this year.

[jackofdk]

 

That's ridiculous. Missing an ambitious target by a shade and missing it by a mile are totally different things. It's a judgement call, not a lottery.

 

Presumably the judgement was that KK had essentially no chance of meeting the target for next year, given the performance this year.

 

Exactly. And looking at how the league for deteriorated for his 18 months at the club despite massive spending, it isn't too hard to see why they chose to let him go. How they go about the decision to replace him is far more concerning than the decision of firing him.

[SCOUSE TAPAS]

I think there is still a few twists left in the search for a new manager yet.

 

The interview with Gerrard on ssn were they say to him about Martinez and he replies, this is the first I have heard about it and I would wait for the club announcement first.

 

The only person who is talking about Martinez is his chairman.

 

That in its self is another strange thing he has been going on about Martinez and us to ssn and I cant believe the club have not stopped him blurting on and on about it.

[FanchesterCity]

I think there is still a few twists left in the search for a new manager yet.

 

The interview with Gerrard on ssn were they say to him about Martinez and he replies, this is the first I have heard about it and I would wait for the club announcement first.

 

The only person who is talking about Martinez is his chairman.

 

That in its self is another strange thing he has been going on about Martinez and us to ssn and I cant believe the club have not stopped him blurting on and on about it.

 

They should have signed an NDA with Wigan before any of this. Perhaps they just assumed Whelan would behave like a gentleman. How wrong they were.

 

Ironic that Whelan will already have a replacement lined up, and it goes right under the radar with very little leakage, other than the press guessing on Bruce.

[stringvest]

Why the hell would Wigan sign an NDA?

 

Madness I tell thee.

[RedRazor]

That's ridiculous. Missing an ambitious target by a shade and missing it by a mile are totally different things. It's a judgement call, not a lottery.

 

Presumably the judgement was that KK had essentially no chance of meeting the target for next year, given the performance this year.

I disagree.

 

Do you continue to focus all your resources on flogging a dead horse and ignore the possibility to three trips to Wembley just so that you can say "look - I only finished a couple of points off the pace" or do you make a judgement call after the Arsenal defeat and say "well at least I can bring some silverware home".

 

Did such a conversation ever take place with FSG? Was it just poor judgement on KDs behalf? You are certainly right that when they weighed it in the balance they decided Kenny was not going to take us to where they wanted to be. I think they were too hasty. They should have marked his card in no uncertain terms and told him to deliver a CL spot next year or walk.

[FanchesterCity]

I disagree.

 

Do you continue to focus all your resources on flogging a dead horse and ignore the possibility to three trips to Wembley just so that you can say "look - I only finished a couple of points off the pace" or do you make a judgement call after the Arsenal defeat and say "well at least I can bring some silverware home".

 

Did such a conversation ever take place with FSG? Was it just poor judgement on KDs behalf? You are certainly right that when they weighed it in the balance they decided Kenny was not going to take us to where they wanted to be. I think they were too hasty. They should have marked his card in no uncertain terms and told him to deliver a CL spot next year or walk.

 

Had Kenny 'clearly' compromised the league for a cup run, then they'd have had obvious grounds for concern - but I don't think he did (until it was already clear the top 4 wasn't possible anyway)... A trophy is a trophy and it's good for the team and fans to salvage something from a poor season.

 

But, as you've pointed out, the goal remained. CL. At the end of the season, that was criteria he was being measured on (along with other non-game related matters).

 

I suspect they looked at the table and said "it was a long way short, giving us little confidence things were moving in the right direction", but what probably finished him off was his media skills (or lack of). After the Suarez debacle, and a couple of interviews where Kenny just didn't come out well, I think it just all stacked up to having to let him go.

 

Every manager in the country has done some awful after match interviews, but when you're not winning, or they aren't interspersed with some good ones, it really doesn't help.

 

Personally, I don't think it should matter - his job is (was) on the field, not media relations, but in this day and age, they have to have it all. They want suit and tie, clean cut, and eloquent, along with politically correct.

 

I think that tipped the balance and did for him.

[WhiskeyJar]

General Question guys:

 

Had we finished 1 point behind the top four, reached the FA Cup Final and having already won the Carling Cup, does anyone think that Kenny would not be here right now?

 

Here is another one:

 

Had someone ask us at the start of the season, would King Kenny still be at Liverpool if we finished where we did, would anyone think that his job would be safe?

 

Two very different pictures.

[FanchesterCity]

Why the hell would Wigan sign an NDA?

 

Madness I tell thee.

 

Well yes, that's a fair point. It's all really about Liverpool wanting to keep it quiet not Wigan, but if Whelan wants his compensation and as some are suggesting, quite fancies offloading Martinez anyway then they might have.

 

I suppose though, in the end, Whelan could hold all the cards. If you want to speak with my man, then I'll milk the situation for every penny... and boy has he!

 

But still, if a business is really concerned about privacy, you need an NDA, or you're open to this situation.

 

It's almost laughable how Whelan says "I shouldn't praise my man because I want to keep him, but he's the best ever!". It's like saying "I'm not a wife beater, I know when to stop hitting her"

[FanchesterCity]

General Question guys:

 

Had we finished 1 point behind the top four, reached the FA Cup Final and having already won the Carling Cup, does anyone think that Kenny would not be here right now?

 

Here is another one:

 

Had someone ask us at the start of the season, would King Kenny still be at Liverpool if we finished where we did, would anyone think that his job would be safe?

 

Two very different pictures.

 

Question 1: I think he'd still be manager. Proving he's moved massively in the right direction and you could reasonably expect to do better again this coming season. FSG would then have attempted to work on Kenny's media skills.

 

Question 2: Not sure. I think many would be a bit surprised at the lack of progress. If you add 'and spend a lot of money, and hardly win at home' then it looks worse. I'm not sure it's a definite "sack him", just a bit of a shock that he didn't do better.

[silverlining]

I think you're right there. Instead of thinking "brilliant, we can secure the futures of our clubs now" they've gone and spent the future, and are starting to realise if they lose their league positions, or the money drops off in any way, they're in trouble.

 

Definitely not Sky's fault, just bad handling of the Sky money, and now clubs are being circled over by the investment vultures looking the 'rescue' clubs having a few difficulties.

 

God help a club like United if they drop out of the top 4 - could be another Rangers if that happened. *Perks up a bit*

 

United are more of a proper club than the artifice the Arabs have created at Shitty. Tranmere Rovers would be Champions in three years if they had a billion pounds of investment from some oil-rich twats from the desert funding them

 

So go and fuck yourself you weird, smug cunt

[FrenchEyeGlass]

If Kenny had got anywhere near the top four (within a few points) and hadn't spent tens of millions on players who have, for the most part, produced nothing (Downing, Adam, Carroll, Henderson) he would still be here. Even if he hadn't won the CC or the FA Cup, but had a better transfer record and gotten towards the top four, he would be here.

 

They didn't trust him anymore, which is a call they're allowed to make. Sacking Kenny, though against the wishes of many of our fans (including me), cannot be said to be a terrible decision. There is definite logic behind it, as there was in support of him staying.

 

Its the hiring of an unproven, untested, unsuccessful nobody in Kenny's place which is a terrible decision. Martinez may come here and do incredibly well - in fact, I wouldn't be surprised. But the reason it is a terrible decision is because its a massive, massive gamble. And they really don't need to be making such a gamble right now, when there is a certain European Cup winning manager available who has a record of success at our club (that is, relative to their definition of success).

 

Who knows. Fear is the overriding feeling. Not because of the manager, but because I have a feeling we will have very very little to spend.

[FanchesterCity]

United are more of a proper club than the artifice the Arabs have created at Shitty. Tranmere Rovers would be Champions in three years if they had a billion pounds of investment from some oil-rich twats from the desert funding them

 

So go and fuck yourself you weird, smug cunt

 

You're missing the whole bloody point as usual.

 

It's not about 'this club' or 'that club' it's about the game in general and how owners actions are having absolutely massive implications all over the place, and a lot it is leading clubs up a dead where in another 10 years time we are in danger of seeing some massive clubs ruined. That's your club, my club everyone's club.

 

Are you THAT blind you can't see the potential for that?

 

Shout and scream and slag off anything and everything that's not to your liking, but it's just looking like the noisy screaming kid in Tesco upset that's not getting his bag of sweets. Onlookers just shaking their heads.

 

Thank God you're not representing the true face of LFC.

[WhiskeyJar]

If Kenny had got anywhere near the top four (within a few points) and hadn't spent tens of millions on players who have, for the most part, produced nothing (Downing, Adam, Carroll, Henderson) he would still be here. Even if he hadn't won the CC or the FA Cup, but had a better transfer record and gotten towards the top four, he would be here.

 

They didn't trust him anymore, which is a call they're allowed to make. Sacking Kenny, though against the wishes of many of our fans (including me), cannot be said to be a terrible decision. There is definite logic behind it, as there was in support of him staying.

 

Its the hiring of an unproven, untested, unsuccessful nobody in Kenny's place which is a terrible decision. Martinez may come here and do incredibly well - in fact, I wouldn't be surprised. But the reason it is a terrible decision is because its a massive, massive gamble. And they really don't need to be making such a gamble right now, when there is a certain European Cup winning manager available who has a record of success at our club (that is, relative to their definition of success).

 

Who knows. Fear is the overriding feeling. Not because of the manager, but because I have a feeling we will have very very little to spend.

 

I agree with most of that. Kenny did not meet this season Objective, get in the top 4 which is why he got the sack. If he was closer then he might of earned his stay of execution with the addition of the performance the team had in the Cups.

 

The reality is though, the more years we are out of the Champions League, the harder it is to get in. We are looking now for a manager that suits FSG standards and that's fine. In fact I do actually like Martinez and should he be appointed LFC Manager I will support him all the way.

 

I like the man, the way he talks, the way he sets his team and his overall general ethos regarding football. If our fans delete the whole Hodgson era from their memories then they would have been against this appointment a whole lot less (if it goes through).

 

Are there other more successful managers out there, more established? Of course. More Premier League experience? Maybe not.

 

Martinez has a lot going for him, but I see him as a less of a gamble then most of our fans.

[Horus]

You're missing the whole bloody point as usual.

 

It's not about 'this club' or 'that club' it's about the game in general and how owners actions are having absolutely massive implications all over the place, and a lot it is leading clubs up a dead where in another 10 years time we are in danger of seeing some massive clubs ruined. That's your club, my club everyone's club.

 

Are you THAT blind you can't see the potential for that?

 

Shout and scream and slag off anything and everything that's not to your liking, but it's just looking like the noisy screaming kid in Tesco upset that's not getting his bag of sweets. Onlookers just shaking their heads.

 

Thank God you're not representing the true face of LFC.

 

It's not your place to lecture us on "the true face of Liverpool," and your newly acquired faux interest in the financial health of the league, is as bogus as your sincerity. So fuck off.