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LFC approach Wigan for martinez


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As it became increasingly obvious over the past few days that Roberto Martinez is going to be our next manager, I have been trying to work out what qualities have attracted FSG to him as he certainly would not be my preferred candidate.

 

It has repeatedly been pointed out that Wigan have only narrowly avoided the drop for the past three seasons and Martinez has finished lower in the league than his predecessors - understandably this hasn't instilled a lot of confidence in our supporters about his ability to successfully take up the hotseat at a much higher profile club.

 

However, I was surprised to learn that during Martinez's three year tenure at Wigan they have taken in almost £10.5m more than they have paid out in transfer fees. Personally I think this paints his achievements in a more flattering light - despite having repeatedly lost his most valuable players (resulting in a significant net profit on transfers), Martinez has managed to keep the team's performance consistent. Doing a lot more with less if you like. This wasn't the norm under Bruce or Jewell.

 

Despite spending more than £35m net last season we only managed to finish 9 points ahead of Wigan. I hate the way the media constantly drone on about Moneyball when they talk about our owners but I do think they are adopting a business / analytical approach to the appointment of our next manager.

 

In terms of points per pound spent, Martinez has consistently achieved a return that would rival almost anyone in the division. Most people now realise that FSG are not going to pump vast sums of money into LFC and "efficiency" appears to be their sacred cow. Martinez, in fairness to him, has shown that he can deliver a certain return even without the benefit of investment.

 

Traditionally the biggest clubs in England have sought to appoint managers with a track record of success / silverware. However, the advent of the Premier League / Champions League has meant that trophies are increasingly being won by a small pool of elite clubs who enjoy the largest revenue streams. I suspect that FSG have attempted to objectively 'value' the achievements of managers at smallers clubs and have focused on the returns that they have generated from the resources at their disposal. The logic is presumably to establish which managers have achieved 'success' through managerial skill rather than financial might. On this basis, Martinez has delivered excellent returns.

 

In terms of other factors that might make Martinez attractive to our owners, he is a bit of a media darling and FSG may feel this would help repair our tarnished image, he is presumably on a relatively modest salary at Wigan and FSG have previously indicated their desire to reduce our wage bill, the concept of working under a DOF will not be so alien to somebody from Spain, his teams are frequently praised for the "attractive" brand of football they play and his side's performances generally improve in the latter half of the season which arguably suggests that his coaching delivers results once the new players have had an opportunity to absorb his methods and bed in.

 

Time will tell whether he will be a success and it is a very big gamble on the owner's part. I am particularly anxious about his total lack of European experience but I guess he will have to learn as he goes. I am prepared to give him a fair crack.

 

Good post,

 

And I think the man has merits. Don't get me wrong I don't think hes a bad manager. But I see people point out all his potential qualities and ignore the fact that his team got absolutely massacred 2/3 times this season. And even when they weren't getting massacred they were far from brilliant until the last 3rd of the season.

Granted hes been balancing the books the whole time, selling good players and having to look for budget replacements.

 

Now thing is I'm thinking along with a few others I can see, that this is a quality FSG like in him, hes done a decent job with Wigan on a tight budget buying good young players like McCarthy, Moses etc...

 

Which is fine for Wigan...but if we're going to start doing things that way coupled with this new structure which basically takes the whole DOF and a coach relationship to new unchartered realms, it basically screams either epic disaster or incredible new way of doing things.

 

It may turn out to be the best thing ever, but if it fails I think the consequences could be seriously fucking dire.

 

But ultimately I think its going to come down to how much money we pump in, people don't like to hear it at times and would rather focus on other things.

 

But very few teams break into the top parts of a league without spending a decent bit of cash, theres always exceptions but not many in the Premier League. Basically we don't need to spend an obscene amount, but we can't be expected to be making a profit on player transactions ever summer. It just simply won't work. I'd bet my labrador on it!

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As it became increasingly obvious over the past few days that Roberto Martinez is going to be our next manager, I have been trying to work out what qualities have attracted FSG to him as he certainly would not be my preferred candidate.

 

It has repeatedly been pointed out that Wigan have only narrowly avoided the drop for the past three seasons and Martinez has finished lower in the league than his predecessors - understandably this hasn't instilled a lot of confidence in our supporters about his ability to successfully take up the hotseat at a much higher profile club.

 

However, I was surprised to learn that during Martinez's three year tenure at Wigan they have taken in almost £10.5m more than they have paid out in transfer fees. Personally I think this paints his achievements in a more flattering light - despite having repeatedly lost his most valuable players (resulting in a significant net profit on transfers), Martinez has managed to keep the team's performance consistent. Doing a lot more with less if you like. This wasn't the norm under Bruce or Jewell.

 

Despite spending more than £35m net last season we only managed to finish 9 points ahead of Wigan. I hate the way the media constantly drone on about Moneyball when they talk about our owners but I do think they are adopting a business / analytical approach to the appointment of our next manager.

 

In terms of points per pound spent, Martinez has consistently achieved a return that would rival almost anyone in the division. Most people now realise that FSG are not going to pump vast sums of money into LFC and "efficiency" appears to be their sacred cow. Martinez, in fairness to him, has shown that he can deliver a certain return even without the benefit of investment.

 

Traditionally the biggest clubs in England have sought to appoint managers with a track record of success / silverware. However, the advent of the Premier League / Champions League has meant that trophies are increasingly being won by a small pool of elite clubs who enjoy the largest revenue streams. I suspect that FSG have attempted to objectively 'value' the achievements of managers at smallers clubs and have focused on the returns that they have generated from the resources at their disposal. The logic is presumably to establish which managers have achieved 'success' through managerial skill rather than financial might. On this basis, Martinez has delivered excellent returns.

 

In terms of other factors that might make Martinez attractive to our owners, he is a bit of a media darling and FSG may feel this would help repair our tarnished image, he is presumably on a relatively modest salary at Wigan and FSG have previously indicated their desire to reduce our wage bill, the concept of working under a DOF will not be so alien to somebody from Spain, his teams are frequently praised for the "attractive" brand of football they play and his side's performances generally improve in the latter half of the season which arguably suggests that his coaching delivers results once the new players have had an opportunity to absorb his methods and bed in.

 

Time will tell whether he will be a success and it is a very big gamble on the owner's part. I am particularly anxious about his total lack of European experience but I guess he will have to learn as he goes. I am prepared to give him a fair crack.

 

A strong reccomendation if FSG are thinking of running the club with a transfer surplus over the next few years.

 

Forgive me if I do not consider that managing to avoid relegation despite having his best players sold out from underneath him as a trait to be desired in a Liverpool manager.

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While I do have some sympathy for some of your points - the ones I can understand anyway - I don't think the bit in bold stands up.

 

Downing and Henderson aren't proof that a DOF role doesn't work; they're proof that Commolli and Kenny wasted fucking millions on shit players. If they'd spent £80m on better players than Carroll, Adam, Henderson and Downing, they'd both still be in a job.

 

Sympathy for mr vengeance?

Youd like that film.

 

And Commolli signed them players not Kenny, which was crucial to the point I made and totally irrelavantises yours.

I doubt Kenny would have blown LFCs money the way Commolli did. Thats why Commolli had to go.

Kenny lost his job for other reasons. Does that make enough sense to you?

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Of course FSG will deny it. Why say they've made him an offer when they're not expecting an answer till Tuesday.

 

Cunts to a man.

 

Yep, and if he turns it down, they really will be in a spot of bother.

 

They'll deny it all day long until he signs - and to be fair, I don't blame them.

 

 

Whelan's revelations are disrespectful and distasteful (but he's not a liar).

 

I wish he's just said "I've given permission to Liverpool, the rest is between Liverpool and Roberto, and none of my business. I only need to know his decision either way so that I can make plans for Wigan"

 

That's ALL he needed to say.

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Sympathy for mr vengeance?

Youd like that film.

 

And Commolli signed them players not Kenny, which was crucial to the point I made and totally irrelavantises yours.

I doubt Kenny would have blown LFCs money the way Commolli did. Thats why Commolli had to go.

Kenny lost his job for other reasons. Does that make enough sense to you?

 

Kenny wanted the players, loony.

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Kenny wanted the players, loony.

 

I disagree mate, they were Commolli signings. Ive said it all along, that was Damiens job.

Kenny toed the line, he was never gonna come out and say otherwise, thats the structure the yanks have.

Only someone like Commolli could sign someone like Hendo for that kind of fee. An abortion of a footballer, can you not see that?

Kenny had some input, probably in terms of he wanted a young CM who can play out wide or a young, tall strong forward, then Commolli would go out and identify a player who could meet the criteria and spunk the crown jewels on his cocking scouting abortions.

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A strong reccomendation if FSG are thinking of running the club with a transfer surplus over the next few years.

 

Forgive me if I do not consider that managing to avoid relegation despite having his best players sold out from underneath him as a trait to be desired in a Liverpool manager.

 

Don't get me wrong - I am definitely not championing the appointment of Roberto Martinez! I was just speculating on the characteristics which may have made him attractive to our owners.

 

I think his appointment would be a further clear signal that the owners have absolutely no intention of pumping significant sums into the club from their own resources. The only way we are going to be in a position to compete again is if we regain our Champions League status and that is a big ask in the current climate.

 

I do think we underachieved last season and I expect us to improve significantly. There is a chance that Spurs will lose Modric, Adebayor, Defoe and possibly others so may not be as competitive. Similarly, who knows who will be appointed at Chelsea and which players they will bring in to replace the likes of Drogba, Bosingwa and Kalou - Terry, Lampard et al will be a year older and there is no guarantee they will like the new regime. Will their recent success make them even more unwilling to accept a change of tactics? Arsenal may lose Van Persie to Man City - where would that leave them?

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If we are going in for a DoF then I reckon we are 100% going to end up with AVB. The reason I reckon this is because as we know he is a young manager with limited experience, and having a DoF will help share the responsibility of managing the club until AVB is experienced enough to manage on his own. Alex Ferguson never had 100% control of everything when he first arrived at United, he only got 100% control towards the end of the 90's and United haven't done too bad have they. You can say they never had a director of football, but they never had one in name only they did have an equivalent.

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Sympathy for mr vengeance?

Youd like that film.

 

And Commolli signed them players not Kenny, which was crucial to the point I made and totally irrelavantises yours.

I doubt Kenny would have blown LFCs money the way Commolli did. Thats why Commolli had to go.

Kenny lost his job for other reasons. Does that make enough sense to you?

 

Did you just invent that word? What does it mean? Sounds like a nasty disease

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I'm not sure it's quite a done deal yet.

 

I was anticipating a firm handshake today and an announcement, or perhaps a press conference for Monday.

 

But Tuesday smacks of 'I need to think about it'.

 

I'm getting a feeling he could turn it down.

 

When all is said and done, Martinez has had time to think about it. All he would have needed to know is:

 

Do I have control over which players come and go?

How much is in the kitty?

What are my own personal terms?

 

All that could be agreed in a day.

 

I'm inclined to believe Whelan (although I loathe his revelations)...There's a load of ifs and buts and other people in roles that might inhibit Martinez's management.

 

Prepare for another weekend of rumours!

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World Cup final: Johan Cruyff sowed seeds for revolution in Spain's fortunes - Telegraph

 

Don’t know if this has been posted before, but this article that Martinez wrote has convinced me slightly. This is exactly what Barnes was going on about the other day, this is what we need!

 

 

By Roberto Martinez, Wigan Athletic manager7:00AM BST 11 Jul 2010

 

World Cup final: Johan Cruyff sowed seeds for revolution in Spain's fortunes

Strange as it seems to say, the reason Spain will walk out at Soccer City in their first World Cup final is the defeat they suffered in their first game of the tournament.

 

Vicente Del Bosque's team, viewed by many as the best in the world, needed to lose to Switzerland to learn what was required if they were to win the competition.

 

That 1-0 loss did not prompt any radical change of style or of system, both of which are not the work of one manager or one group of players but are the result of years of preparation at all levels of Spanish football. It did not rob Spain of their confidence, or force Del Bosque to rethink his tactics.

All that changed was that a squad without great experience of these events found the psychological maturity to win games. That is the enduring trait of this Spanish team: maturity.

 

They have the maturity to keep doing the rights things, to find a way to win against whatever opposition they encounter, to trust in their way of playing.

 

That is something that has not changed for four or five years, at the very least. The patient, attractive approach has become a hallmark of Spanish sides at club and international level this decade and will last, I believe, for far longer.

 

Spain's unique, tiki-taka style did not change when Del Bosque succeeded Luis Aragones, the man who led the country to victory at Euro 2008.

He made some alterations, of course, in particular in midfield, where Xavi, Xabi Alonso and Sergio Busquets are not so attack-minded as Aragones's selections, but that is a minor adjustment designed to make Spain stronger off the ball. The pattern of play is the same.

 

That is no accident. The understanding of the style of play that Spain's players are so familiar with started when Johan Cruyff was in charge of Barcelona and has been adopted across La Liga. It is no overnight success.

It is in the genes of Spanish football.

 

Youth systems have been developed to breed the sort of players that thrive in such a style, players of great technical ability and equal tactical awareness.

 

Initially, it brought great success at youth level but could not be translated into the senior side because at Real Madrid and Barcelona, in particular, the most important players were foreign.

 

Now, they are mostly Spanish, as they have been for a number of years. La Liga has even started exporting its players, most notably to Arsenal and to Liverpool, where they were imbued with the confidence that they could beat any opponents they encountered, playing in any style, at home or abroad.

That was the final touch. Spain has a team of technical and tactical excellence, and one which has been instilled with a winning mentality.

The squad has tremendous strength in depth. A player of the remarkable talents of Cesc Fabregas does not start, a striker of the quality of Fernando Torres is not relied upon to win matches. Tonight, against Holland, is the culmination of years of work.

 

That is not to say that Del Bosque should not be given great credit for the role he has played in taking Spain to Soccer City. His composure, his calmness, even after that defeat to Switzerland, has been key. He refused to be drawn into a war of words with Aragones, who has criticised some of his decisions. He does not panic, and that is vitally important.

 

Del Bosque is, perhaps, not renowned as a tactician, but he is the master of man-management. Just as he kept a squad of Galacticos together, and in great spirits, in his time at Real Madrid, he has kept Spain's star-studded squad happy. When so many big-name players are not in the starting line-up, that is no mean feat.

 

Take the way, for example, that he has managed the Torres situation. The Liverpool striker, after a demanding season at Anfield in which he played through injury and pain, is clearly not at his best.

 

Yet when everyone expected Del Bosque to omit him, against Paraguay, his manager offered him his support and his faith. When he was expected to start, in the semi-final win against Germany, he was on the bench.

 

It was an intelligent, sensitive decision. Del Bosque identified that, had Torres started in Durban and Spain lost, the 27 year-old would have been blamed for the end of the country's World Cup campaign. Instead, he protected him, and Spain reached the final. It is a final which Torres, fully fit or not, has a role to play in.

 

That is not to say, of course, that Spain do not have weaknesses, do not have areas where Holland can hurt them. But they are overpowered by the strengths of the national side. It has taken time, and patience, but finally, all of Spain's hard work has paid off.

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I disagree mate, they were Commolli signings. Ive said it all along, that was Damiens job.

Kenny toed the line, he was never gonna come out and say otherwise, thats the structure the yanks have.

Only someone like Commolli could sign someone like Hendo for that kind of fee. An abortion of a footballer, can you not see that?

Kenny had some input, probably in terms of he wanted a young CM who can play out wide or a young, tall strong forward, then Commolli would go out and identify a player who could meet the criteria and spunk the crown jewels on his cocking scouting abortions.

 

I think you're wrong on every single count.

 

Do you honestly expect Kenny Dalglish to be TOLD who's in his team, and for him to play them week in week out when they aren't his choosing?

 

I can appreciate Kenny not wanting to bring Liverpool into disrepute, but I'm 100% certain he'd have walked if that was the situation.

 

It's far more likely that Kenny identified the players, but not the fee, and only suggested the right price. If they couldn't get that player for the price they wanted, it would be up to the guys above to sanction going higher than they'd budgeted for.

 

You're essentially claiming Kenny was a stool pigeon. That would be truly shocking if true.

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Guest ShoePiss

Monday is a bank holiday here by the way. Henry will be going to the Redsox game then drowning his sorrows on his boat after a beating by the Tigers.

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I think you're wrong on every single count.

 

Do you honestly expect Kenny Dalglish to be TOLD who's in his team, and for him to play them week in week out when they aren't his choosing?

 

I can appreciate Kenny not wanting to bring Liverpool into disrepute, but I'm 100% certain he'd have walked if that was the situation.

 

It's far more likely that Kenny identified the players, but not the fee, and only suggested the right price. If they couldn't get that player for the price they wanted, it would be up to the guys above to sanction going higher than they'd budgeted for.

 

You're essentially claiming Kenny was a stool pigeon. That would be truly shocking if true.

No, KD picked the team with what was available, thats not what I said.

KD wouldnt have walked away, hed never have had another chance, here or elsewhere.

The new structure is the same except another person to the DOF decides how much we can spend on x player.

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I'm not sure it's quite a done deal yet.

 

I was anticipating a firm handshake today and an announcement, or perhaps a press conference for Monday.

 

But Tuesday smacks of 'I need to think about it'.

 

I'm getting a feeling he could turn it down.

 

When all is said and done, Martinez has had time to think about it. All he would have needed to know is:

 

Do I have control over which players come and go?

How much is in the kitty?

What are my own personal terms?

 

All that could be agreed in a day.

 

I'm inclined to believe Whelan (although I loathe his revelations)...There's a load of ifs and buts and other people in roles that might inhibit Martinez's management.

 

Prepare for another weekend of rumours!

 

Errrrthing always happens on tuesday here

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