LFC approach Wigan for martinez

[KopOut]

Martinez is ideal for a club like Wigan, who would have to punch very much above their weight to go top four in the league. Small club, small ambition; happy to deliver the odd knockout blow to the odd big club, with a loyal set of 20-30,000 spectators.

 

The man will have a Wigan mentality. It appears that, far from wanting to push Liverpool back up the richter scale of football, our new owners want a happy, profiteering mediocrity. Correct me if I'm wrong.

[Coro]

Correct me if I'm wrong.

 

I'm sure someone will try to. They'll say 'give them time' but this same person probably wanted Dalglish gone after one full season. Plenty of our 'support' gave enough ammo to Ayre & FSG to give Dalglish the shove, these suits are dependent on this type of punter.

 

One of AVB or Martinez will accept the role, they wont get much time or much backing and in all likelihood we'll step deeper into mediocrity. There's always hope, that's the killer with football, it's illogical but it keeps drawing us back, it's this that the likes of FSG also depend upon.

 

Maybe one of these young coaches can achieve something special here against some odds. There's not the same despondency as the was back in 2010, so who knows.

[Jose Jones]

Saying that FSG want us to be mediocre is stupid and ridiculous.

There is much more reward for them in terms of revenue if we are good, winning things and in the Champions League every season. They will also get a nice easy ride from the fans and the press. It makes doing business easier in terms of buying players and attracting sponsors.

 

They may very probably have fucked up by sacking Kenny, and appear to be flailing about like useless twats. But if we are poor it will be through incompetence, not through design.

[Unrighteous]

There is no money to be made with mediocre.

[withnail71]

He seems a really nice bloke, he's no where near the top of my list but he'll get my absolute support, I'm not going to whine like a tart and be happy every time we drop points because it means he's closer to the door. The man I want has just been sacked so fuck it. IF he gets it I'm treating it like a vacation let the little experiment begin and without much hope and see if it surprises us.

This.

[Coro]

They can make plenty of money from the strength of the clubs name over in Asia, for example. They cant do that so much with the Red Sox. Huge sponsorship deals, naming rights, the works.

 

Wanting us to be mediocre, yeah that is silly but i don't think anyone is truly saying that, are they.

 

Treating football as secondary, that looks the reality and will lead us only into mediocrity.

[Torvald Utne]

Anyone, please! I can't take another day of speculation.

[Tyler Durden]

It's all well and good seeing how the 'experiment' pans out but if it doesn't then we will be set to lose our best players in 12 months time. I don't hold much hope on it working going on how this has been conducted so far.

 

Who exactly is doing the interviewing because no one I see has the credentials to be making football related decisions.

[Coro]

Everyone who has not been at the club for more than 4 years and failed to win the league in the process are better.

 

I'm sorry but 2 out of 26 trophies does not impress me.

 

Next.

 

Mad to think Benitez, from 2001 - 2007, won 2 La Liga's, 1 UEFA Cup, 1 European Cup & 1 FA Cup whilst finishing a runner up in Athens and still some people wanted him gone after that final FFS!

 

Guess he was due a lean spell.

[cuppatea]

I'm sure someone will try to. They'll say 'give them time' but this same person probably wanted Dalglish gone after one full season. Plenty of our 'support' gave enough ammo to Ayre & FSG to give Dalglish the shove, these suits are dependent on this type of punter.

 

One of AVB or Martinez will accept the role, they wont get much time or much backing and in all likelihood we'll step deeper into mediocrity. There's always hope, that's the killer with football, it's illogical but it keeps drawing us back, it's this that the likes of FSG also depend upon.

 

Maybe one of these young coaches can achieve something special here against some odds. There's not the same despondency as the was back in 2010, so who knows.

 

The ammunition for Kenny's sacking came from him overseeing our worst league campaign in decades, not from the fans who, considering how horrendously bad we were in the league, remained extremely supportive of him throughout the season.

 

I was gutted when I heard the news about Kenny's sacking but let's not understate how shit we were. Go back and read the "where will we finish?" threads from last summer; there were far more fans tipping us to win the title than finish outside the top 4. To finish 8th would have been unthinkable after ridding ourselves of H&G, Hodgson, investing significantly in the squad, having the fans and players united behind a popular manager, with the form we showed at the back end of the previous season, having no European football to distract us etc.

 

A league campaign that was supposed to see us return to near the top of the table instead ended with us scrapping with Fulham for 8th place. Kenny is literally the only person alive who could have fallen so far short of what was expected and still maintained fan support. If the owners were happy to settle for mediocrity it would have been far easier to leave an under-performing but still extremely popular club legend in charge of the team than incur the wrath of the fans by sacking him and appointing a young, somewhat unproven manager in his place.

[Turkish Delight]

I was told on cup final day by someone I didn't know that Martinez would be our manager next season. I thought he was talking shite so ignored it at the time but I wonder now whether he knew something.

 

My thoughts for what it's worth is that I think it would a better appointment than Hodgson but only because I like Martinez's style of play better and I don't know that he's an utter cunt of a man. That's not to say I think he would be a good appointment.

 

I'd liken it to a gamble by the owners on a 33/1 outsider at the races where it's been ridden previously by shit jockeys and you don't know whether it's capable of better than it's shown to date. If it comes in you not only get the spoils but the satisfaction of feeling you know better than everybody else. Most of the time you just end up looking back at the end of the race thinking why the fuck did I back that.

[Antynwa]

I remember on the coach back someone said he was being lined up.

 

Interesting.

[ngogswilly]

Its looking almost nailed on now.

 

Deep down I have a glimmer of hope he might surprise us all, hes definitely no Hodgson, he plays decent football, he doesn't seem to be an absolute fucking asshole of a man like Hodgson and hes young, hungry and doesn't feel entitled to a big job like old Roy did.

 

But the logical part of my brain is saying he'll basically be the final nail in the midtable coffin and a year from now we'll have finished 6/7th, Skrtel,Agger,Suarez and a few others will be off and that will be it for us. FSG will have completely fucked us.

 

But who knows, only time will tell.

 

Whatever happens, we need some firepower going into next season. If FSG hire a new manager and give him peanuts to spend, well they would be aswell fucking off back to American and forgetting ever having any success with us.

 

The manager needs money to spend. No two ways about it.

[LFCJim]

I was told on cup final day by someone I didn't know that Martinez would be our manager next season. I thought he was talking shite so ignored it at the time but I wonder now whether he knew something.

 

My thoughts for what it's worth is that I think it would a better appointment than Hodgson but only because I like Martinez's style of play better and I don't know that he's an utter cunt of a man. That's not to say I think he would be a good appointment.

 

I'd liken it to a gamble by the owners on a 33/1 outsider at the races where it's been ridden previously by shit jockeys and you don't know whether it's capable of better than it's shown to date. If it comes in you not only get the spoils but the satisfaction of feeling you know better than everybody else. Most of the time you just end up looking back at the end of the race thinking why the fuck did I back that.

 

Spot on analogy! I'd laugh if it wasn't so serious.

[Unrighteous]

Mad to think Benitez, from 2001 - 2007, won 2 La Liga's, 1 UEFA Cup, 1 European Cup & 1 FA Cup whilst finishing a runner up in Athens and still some people wanted him gone after that final FFS!

 

Guess he was due a lean spell.

 

Coincidence? Or clever choice of word?

[Horus]

Its looking almost nailed on now.

 

Deep down I have a glimmer of hope he might surprise us all, hes definitely no Hodgson, he plays decent football, he doesn't seem to be an absolute fucking asshole of a man like Hodgson and hes young, hungry and doesn't feel entitled to a big job like old Roy did.

 

But the logical part of my brain is saying he'll basically be the final nail in the midtable coffin and a year from now we'll have finished 6/7th, Skrtel,Agger,Suarez and a few others will be off and that will be it for us. FSG will have completely fucked us.

 

But who knows, only time will tell.

 

Whatever happens, we need some firepower going into next season. If FSG hire a new manager and give him peanuts to spend, well they would be aswell fucking off back to American and forgetting ever having any success with us.

 

The manager needs money to spend. No two ways about it.

 

The really disappointing thing, that I knew would be the case, is the fact that whoever is in place, we are scraping around for funds to provide.

 

Nothing good will come from FSG's ownership. Private equity is geared to exploitation of business, not investment.

 

Even Cecil knew that this lot weren't going to be any good.

[Anny Road]

I'd have a look at his signings for an indication of whether or not we are in for him. I haven't can't be arsed but if he has a history of signing bargain players and improving them or moving them on for profit I suspect he is their man. They do not want any more 80m pound turds floating about.

[cuppatea]

I was told on cup final day by someone I didn't know that Martinez would be our manager next season. I thought he was talking shite so ignored it at the time but I wonder now whether he knew something.

 

My thoughts for what it's worth is that I think it would a better appointment than Hodgson but only because I like Martinez's style of play better and I don't know that he's an utter cunt of a man. That's not to say I think he would be a good appointment.

 

I'd liken it to a gamble by the owners on a 33/1 outsider at the races where it's been ridden previously by shit jockeys and you don't know whether it's capable of better than it's shown to date. If it comes in you not only get the spoils but the satisfaction of feeling you know better than everybody else. Most of the time you just end up looking back at the end of the race thinking why the fuck did I back that.

 

If the owners are at all competent (big if for some, I suppose) then it doesn't just come down to pure guesswork. They have a wealth of information available to them and direct access to all of the candidates which should allow them to make an informed decision about who is and who isn't suitable for the job.

 

It's actually quite common on the continent for big clubs to take a punt on relatively unproven managers but our fans seem to think we're above that. Allegri had won fuck all and never managed in Europe before Milan gave him a chance and he delivered their first league title in 7 years. Benitez's managerial record was awful before Valencia gambled on him and he was hugely successful for them. Guardiola had never managed before Barca, Mourinho had barely any experience before Porto etc.

[Whelan]

It is a gamble, there can be no denying appointing a manager like Martinez is a huge gamble. Saying that all appointments are gambles, young appointments more so. Lets not forget this isn't necessarily about his history, nor is it about his skills as a manager it is about how he fits in within the proposed coaching structure, Rafa would not fit in so why appoint him?

 

Take a little time to look through all the leagues in Europe and look at their managers, there is no set criteria, some have been appointed on the back of mediocrity others through impressing at their previous club. Hodgson was supposed to be above all, a safe pair of hands, he couldn't even manage that, Souness was supposed to maintain our position he couldn't even get close.

 

There is lots to like about Martinez, he plays football on the ground and with better players will play better football, he is adaptable as moving to 3 centre backs proved, he has balls (something a lot of our players didn't have last season) in maintaining that style, don't forget during that run in he played United and Newcastle at home and won, Arsenal and us away and won, and was a scandalous decision away from getting something from Chelsea away.

 

What if his skills as a coach are more appreciated and effective at a club like ours with better players and a better set up? Logic suggest he will be better and if that happens then we will benefit and not Aston Villa or Sunderland.

 

It is looking increasingly likely that he will be our manager, and we are in danger of dragging another manager down with our fixation with the past. I am not happy with the way that Rafa has been treated, particularly by Ayre who seems more devious day by day, but even his biggest supporters (which I consider myself to be) have to concede that within a coaching set up like the one the club wants to implement he will not be ideal.

 

The Hodgson appointment was made for non footballing reasons and, all those who were involved and supported the decision should hang their heads, and that includes Purslow, Ayre and Gerrard and Carragher, it was a shit house decision aimed at selling the club. This is a brave (could be foolhardy) decision that is about setting in place a long term plan for the club.

 

There is so much shit being written about the club at the moment (step forward Brian Reade!), that if we don't stop and listen we may as well fuck next season off, because we are going to hound out a manager mid season and it will be us who are to blame. At the moment nobody knows how this will work out, and a healthy dose of scepticism is fine, but at least give the new structure a chance to work out. It isn't an engineering project you can't simulate how the model will work, it involves people and needs to given time to see how it works, and where it can be improved.

[Brownie]

I don't want Martinez but the attitude from many is disgraceful. We complain about the stick Rafa got but then slag someone off before he's even been given a chance?

[Faustus]

I won't exactly be doing cartwheels if Martinez does get the job and he would have been nowehere near my shortlist if I was making the decision, but I'll be getting behind him.

 

It's the very least he deserves from us as Liverpool supporters.

[TheDrowningMan]

It is a gamble, there can be no denying appointing a manager like Martinez is a huge gamble. Saying that all appointments are gambles, young appointments more so. Lets not forget this isn't necessarily about his history, nor is it about his skills as a manager it is about how he fits in within the proposed coaching structure, Rafa would not fit in so why appoint him?

 

Take a little time to look through all the leagues in Europe and look at their managers, there is no set criteria, some have been appointed on the back of mediocrity others through impressing at their previous club. Hodgson was supposed to be above all, a safe pair of hands, he couldn't even manage that, Souness was supposed to maintain our position he couldn't even get close.

 

There is lots to like about Martinez, he plays football on the ground and with better players will play better football, he is adaptable as moving to 3 centre backs proved, he has balls (something a lot of our players didn't have last season) in maintaining that style, don't forget during that run in he played United and Newcastle at home and won, Arsenal and us away and won, and was a scandalous decision away from getting something from Chelsea away.

 

What if his skills as a coach are more appreciated and effective at a club like ours with better players and a better set up? Logic suggest he will be better and if that happens then we will benefit and not Aston Villa or Sunderland.

 

It is looking increasingly likely that he will be our manager, and we are in danger of dragging another manager down with our fixation with the past. I am not happy with the way that Rafa has been treated, particularly by Ayre who seems more devious day by day, but even his biggest supporters (which I consider myself to be) have to concede that within a coaching set up like the one the club wants to implement he will not be ideal.

 

The Hodgson appointment was made for non footballing reasons and, all those who were involved and supported the decision should hang their heads, and that includes Purslow, Ayre and Gerrard and Carragher, it was a shit house decision aimed at selling the club. This is a brave (could be foolhardy) decision that is about setting in place a long term plan for the club.

 

There is so much shit being written about the club at the moment (step forward Brian Reade!), that if we don't stop and listen we may as well fuck next season off, because we are going to hound out a manager mid season and it will be us who are to blame. At the moment nobody knows how this will work out, and a healthy dose of scepticism is fine, but at least give the new structure a chance to work out. It isn't an engineering project you can't simulate how the model will work, it involves people and needs to given time to see how it works, and where it can be improved.

 

To be honest, I was just coming back to state that I'm somewhat conflicted, purely because of you look at top European clubs, they don't hesitate to appoint managers without much of a track record; two current examples are Allegri at Milan was a nothing player and had ever managed a big club, yet has proven a revelation there. Klopp was an average player, had a mediocre stint managing Mainz and from then jumped to Dortmund. Benitez has been mentioned, and Valencia had just been in a couple of CL finals.

 

So I wonder, and I'm definitely, unequivocally guilty of this, are we just falling into an 'English' trap of 'high profile or bust'? Is my thinking on this no more modern and progressive than the sort of football drummed into the heads of generations of English youngsters by Don Howe, Trevor Brooking and co?

 

I can't help but believe Martinez is going to be a complete dud, but I can't say with any great certainty that it isn't simply because I have a dated, anachronistic viewpoint of how a top English club should appoint its manager.

[RedPaul]

I, like almost all Liverpool supporters will get behind whomever FSG choose, whatever reservations I may have. I don't actually see many people 'slagging' Martinez off at all, it's much more just a general concern that he appears to be a rather large gamble which could go either way. He certainly comes across as a nice chap who does play good passing football and maybe he can step that up to the top level and become a managerial great, that's the hope anyway. Like someone said before, football is all about hope.

[Babb'sBurstNad]

Well said Whelan.

 

I still feel that Kenny would have turned things around, but i don't think he was aided by the structure behind the scenes. He had no strong figures to thrash out key decisions with or help the club find a true direction.

 

This whole Martinez situation hinges to some extent on righting the wrongs of that power vaccuum i.e. who takes on the big roles at the club and who's advising FSG. If they wheel out Martinez with heavyweight appointments and someone like Txiki standing alongside him, singing his praises then i reckon we'd all feel a bit better about it.

 

Right now, the worry is they're listening to non-football people who are unqualified to make an adequate assessment of any potential manager. Lack of faith in the process itself is what has created this doubt, no matter how you look at it, having managers come out and turn down interviews doesn't look good.

[AussieRed]

It is a gamble, there can be no denying appointing a manager like Martinez is a huge gamble. Saying that all appointments are gambles, young appointments more so. Lets not forget this isn't necessarily about his history, nor is it about his skills as a manager it is about how he fits in within the proposed coaching structure, Rafa would not fit in so why appoint him?

 

Take a little time to look through all the leagues in Europe and look at their managers, there is no set criteria, some have been appointed on the back of mediocrity others through impressing at their previous club. Hodgson was supposed to be above all, a safe pair of hands, he couldn't even manage that, Souness was supposed to maintain our position he couldn't even get close.

 

There is lots to like about Martinez, he plays football on the ground and with better players will play better football, he is adaptable as moving to 3 centre backs proved, he has balls (something a lot of our players didn't have last season) in maintaining that style, don't forget during that run in he played United and Newcastle at home and won, Arsenal and us away and won, and was a scandalous decision away from getting something from Chelsea away.

 

What if his skills as a coach are more appreciated and effective at a club like ours with better players and a better set up? Logic suggest he will be better and if that happens then we will benefit and not Aston Villa or Sunderland.

 

It is looking increasingly likely that he will be our manager, and we are in danger of dragging another manager down with our fixation with the past. I am not happy with the way that Rafa has been treated, particularly by Ayre who seems more devious day by day, but even his biggest supporters (which I consider myself to be) have to concede that within a coaching set up like the one the club wants to implement he will not be ideal.

 

The Hodgson appointment was made for non footballing reasons and, all those who were involved and supported the decision should hang their heads, and that includes Purslow, Ayre and Gerrard and Carragher, it was a shit house decision aimed at selling the club. This is a brave (could be foolhardy) decision that is about setting in place a long term plan for the club.

 

There is so much shit being written about the club at the moment (step forward Brian Reade!), that if we don't stop and listen we may as well fuck next season off, because we are going to hound out a manager mid season and it will be us who are to blame. At the moment nobody knows how this will work out, and a healthy dose of scepticism is fine, but at least give the new structure a chance to work out. It isn't an engineering project you can't simulate how the model will work, it involves people and needs to given time to see how it works, and where it can be improved.

 

Agreed. Makes far more sense than the hysterical screeching and wild conspiracy theories that some are carrying on about. You'd think a large portion of our support wear tin foil on their head and look for code words in the Sunday paper.

 

FSG got rid of Kenny due to poor performance. That was the main reason. They may have been premature (we'll never know), but they think a different structure and direction will provide us greater success. Why would they wan't mediocrity. If that's what they wanted theis last season would have been perfect for them.