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Neil G

Go fuck yourselves FSG

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8 minutes ago, 3 Stacks said:

We do. Loads of people were saying the worry was we'd have a similar situation in midfield that we'd have at centre back last season, which was a ridiculous concern.

 

Not letting go of and replacing the players who haven't performed in midfield, like Keita or Ox, or who are cooked like Milner is the problem.

It is a similar situation, having to get by with inferior players in key positions, Kabak, Williams, Phillips - numbers, but not good enough (though Phillips really stepped up and did a great job of course).

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1 hour ago, No2 said:

What's that got to do with what I said? My point was he's old skool, he's loyal to a fault. Moreno, Lalanna, Can, Sturridge all allowed stay well beyond their sell by date because they had a contract, even Clyne wasn't paid off or kicked out. Ferguson or Guardiola would freeze out a player not performing, pimp them out to other clubs, Klopp will try and get performances from Bobby until the last day of his contract unless he asks to leave. This talk of replacing Ox, Keita, Bobby, Manè and the likes is fanciful,  he will never sell one "his" players that is working hard and not acting the bollox regardless of performance level. That's why not 1 ex player has ever bitched about him and Ferguson and Pep would need 4 hands to count their ex players that hate their guts.

 

Edit, just remembered the Karius incident, apparently he was all set to stick by him until players complained about his video in LA. Karius still remains the only regular starter he ever binned.

 

I wasn't commenting on what you said; It was just an observation from the list. I think Klopp losing his best players for Dortmund may have hurt us in the long run. He puts an unnecessary value on keeping the group together. Some of these players are finished. Some of them were never anything to begin with. I'm reticent to blame Klopp for it though, because the owners will not release funds to freshen up the squad, and we demand too much to sell. He's kind of forced into this situation. 

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2 minutes ago, Moo said:

"...that didn't want to leave" is key.  I'm sure Lovren for example didn't want to leave but he knew he had to if he wanted first team football.  He won't be the only one.

And have Oxlade Chamberlain and Keita got 50 starts even?  If not then by your measure they are fair game, so why are they still here?  Because no one wants them at a price that would be acceptable to the club.

Lovren is the perfect example, he was a liability but he was only replaced when he decided he needed game time we couldn't give him.. it wasn't Klopps choice to sell him.

 

Ox and Naby haven't played anything like as much as they would have wanted to but that doesn't change the fact Klopp won't replace them unless they want to leave. They are established first team players with CL semi final starts. The facts are clear, he hasn't tried to sell a single player that didn't want to leave, 95% of us want Ox and Naby to be replaced but it they don't want to go then they won't. 

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6 minutes ago, No2 said:

Lovren is the perfect example, he was a liability but he was only replaced when he decided he needed game time we couldn't give him.. it wasn't Klopps choice to sell him.

 

Ox and Naby haven't played anything like as much as they would have wanted to but that doesn't change the fact Klopp won't replace them unless they want to leave. They are established first team players with CL semi final starts. The facts are clear, he hasn't tried to sell a single player that didn't want to leave, 95% of us want Ox and Naby to be replaced but it they don't want to go then they won't. 

 

I can understand him showing loyalty to the likes of Bobby, Henderson and Milner because they were big players for him and were always reliable in the past. I can't understand any world where you'd show loyalty to Mignolet, Karius or Moreno, though. They were perpetually shit and cost us trophies. Naby Keita and Ox don't deserve his loyalty; that's the bottom line. 

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2 minutes ago, Boss said:

 

I wasn't commenting on what you said; It was just an observation from the list. I think Klopp losing his best players for Dortmund may have hurt us in the long run. He puts an unnecessary value on keeping the group together. Some of these players are finished. Some of them were never anything, to begin with. I'm reticent to blame Klopp for it though, because the owners will not release funds to freshen up the squad, and we demand too much to sell. He's kind of forced into this situation. 

I'm going to predict that Sadio and Bobby walk out the door for free and Mo signs up for another 4 years. Milner will leave for free in the summer and Gomez will ask to leave. Unless Naby, Ox or Thiago ask to leave then that will be the only changes in midfield next summer. All of the above will be because that's what Klopp wants, he won't be forced into anything.

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Just now, No2 said:

I'm going to predict that Sadio and Bobby walk out the door for free and Mo signs up for another 4 years. Milner will leave for free in the summer and Gomez will ask to leave. Unless Naby, Ox or Thiago ask to leave then that will be the only changes in midfield next summer. All of the above will be because that's what Klopp wants, he won't be forced into anything.

 

I don't know what'll happen with Bobby, Sadio and Gomez. What I do know is every time there's been a contract impasse under Klopp the player has left for free. So naturally, I'm going to assume the same is true for Mo. 

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2 minutes ago, Boss said:

 

I can understand him showing loyalty to the likes of Bobby, Henderson and Milner because they were big players for him and were always reliable in the past. I can't understand any world where you'd show loyalty to Mignolet, Karius or Moreno, though. They were perpetually shit and cost us trophies. Naby Keita and Ox don't deserve his loyalty; that's the bottom line. 

I think its pretty simple, give your all for Klopp and you have his loyalty. I think he would take as an slight on himself if he can't get performances from Keita and Ox. He will definitely blame himself more than he will blame the player.

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Just now, Boss said:

 

I don't know what'll happen with Bobby, Sadio and Gomez. What I do know is every time there's been a contract impasse under Klopp the player has left for free. So naturally, I'm going to assume the same is true for Mo. 

It's happened once.

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1 minute ago, Boss said:

Twice. Can and Gini.

Can wanted to leave and set it out clearly very early on. I don't think Klopp was overly bothered by his decision. 

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56 minutes ago, Boss said:

 

I don't know what'll happen with Bobby, Sadio and Gomez. What I do know is every time there's been a contract impasse under Klopp the player has left for free. So naturally, I'm going to assume the same is true for Mo. 

Both Milner and Henderson had contract impasses which eventually were resolved w/renewals, so your logic is off.

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19 minutes ago, Rotpeter said:

Both Milner and Henderson had contract impasses which eventually were resolved w/renewals, so your logic is off.

Not sure that there was much of an impasse with Milner and Henderson,more of a dotting of the is and ts. Giving both new contracts was a mistake unless Klopp knew he couldn't sign anybody else of similar quality,which may have been the case. With Salah it's pretty obvious that we can't sign anybody of his quality even if we wanted to,and particularly based on the way FSG do business. 

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17 hours ago, Harry Squatter said:

The writing was on the wall after we won the Champions League. The peak amount of TV and CL revenue, only challengers to Man City domestically. The best manager in the world in the most attractive and lucrative league with no Spanish teams to compete with in the transfer market. But we sign a free agent keeper who was shit and two teenagers. 

I think the writing was on the wall way before that. 

11 hours ago, Moo said:

But some of the players you mention are not regular starters.  No way Klopp wouldn't want to sell bit-part and/or injury prone players if the price was right (for the club) and bring in better ones.  But there's hardly a market for them.  

You bring in better players and suddenly the writing is on the wall for one or two and it's them who realise it's time to go, Klopp doesn't have to force them out, the evolution of a team dictates that. Unfortunately we do not appear to be in a position to bring new players in without clearing out the old ones first.

The reason we hold on to fringe players for too long is because we want top dollar for them. We made some compromise this last window with Wilson, shaq and grujic - but that was because prices in that end of the market had gone down and it was keep them or compromise. Nobody was paying the previously asked prices. 

11 hours ago, Boss said:

 

I don't know what'll happen with Bobby, Sadio and Gomez. What I do know is every time there's been a contract impasse under Klopp the player has left for free. So naturally, I'm going to assume the same is true for Mo. 

I don't think the contract has anything to do with klopp, it's those cunts in Boston. Even Steven Gerrard left to play a year in America because they wouldn't entertain giving him the additional year (which btw he offered to do both years on pay as you play).

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9 minutes ago, Barrington Womble said:

I think the writing was on the wall way before that. 

The reason we hold on to fringe players for too long is because we want top dollar for them. We made some compromise this last window with Wilson, shaq and grujic - but that was because prices in that end of the market had gone down and it was keep them or compromise. Nobody was paying the previously asked prices. 

I don't think the contract has anything to do with klopp, it's those cunts in Boston. Even Steven Gerrard left to play a year in America because they wouldn't entertain giving him the additional year (which btw he offered to do both years on pay as you play).

I think they'd always made excuses never to spend. Then we win the CL and have the maximum amount of TV revenue and prize money but they just couldn't be arsed. They had no excuses and sat on their hands.

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1 minute ago, Harry Squatter said:

I think they'd always made excuses never to spend. Then we win the CL and have the maximum amount of TV revenue and prize money but they just couldn't be arsed. They had no excuses and sat on their hands.

Yes, they made excuses, but they were always flimsy. And they did have excuses that year, they signed a bunch of new contracts and sent out klopp with the line "we have to pay our bills"

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13 hours ago, VladimirIlyich said:

Not sure that there was much of an impasse with Milner and Henderson,more of a dotting of the is and ts. Giving both new contracts was a mistake unless Klopp knew he couldn't sign anybody else of similar quality,which may have been the case. With Salah it's pretty obvious that we can't sign anybody of his quality even if we wanted to,and particularly based on the way FSG do business. 

Your characterization is way different than the reports/briefings I read at the time.

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8 hours ago, Rotpeter said:

Your characterization is way different than the reports/briefings I read at the time.

I never felt we had any chance of losing Henderson or Milner and Milner wouldnt have been much of a loss anyway. I dont feel anybody really wanted Henderson enough to make a bid either and I think he knew that as club captain he'd have been taking a step backwards. I dont believe City or Chelsea wanted him so everybody else is a step down.

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It's patently obvious that we are not going to resign Salah on a new contract. There is no way the discourse runs this long if we were going to.

 

We've been hoping he settles for our under-market offer (probably 300K a week plus bonuses) despite him asking for a pretty fair at-market offer (probably 400k a week). We're hoping lack of interest from the likes of Real et al makes him think it's best just to stay. Pretty dumb bargaining position because it completely discounts the likelihood that Mo could perform like a monster in the interim, which he has been. If I was Mo and this January passes with no contract, I'd run out my time and sign for PSG/Real/Bayern next year with a big fuck off sign-on bonus. With Klopp's departure on the horizon, I'm surprised he's even willing to commit his future.

 

There's only one positive reason it drags this long, and that's if they want to keep the announcement shtum until Jan end so people don't moan about lack of transfers. But in all honesty, I think that idea is hopeful too. 

 

Look at what happened with Mookie Betts if you want to know how much FSG care about fan feeling. Mo is a Liverpool legend and we'd be in uproar if he left, but they truly won't give a fuck about any of that. They know we are a captured market. Regardless of what they do for our on the pitch aspirations, we'll never stop being fans of the club and hence we're guaranteed dollar signs.

 

Klopp values club harmony, and I'm largely thankful for that. But I can't help but feel that he'd have a better squad and chance of winning things if he had thrown a few shots across the bow towards the owners over the past two years. 

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1 hour ago, Bobby Hundreds said:

I think he will sign its all about the timing for maximum PR to cover otherwise minimum expenditure. Not signing him shows a staggering lack of ambition.

Like a new signing.

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On 14/01/2022 at 20:21, Boss said:

 

Out of all of them, only Solanke has gone on to be a better player than he was here.


Harry Wilson has 8 goals and 10 assists so far this season in the Championship.

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