Go fuck yourselves FSG

[3 Stacks]

25 minutes ago, an tha said:

Fair do's but when you say things like "Were we meant to sell all of Jones, Milner, Ox and Keita because people don't rate them" that does not come across the same as the perfectly reasonable argument you make above.

 

Anyway, ta for clearing up.

 

Hopefully the overhaul in midfield happens and soon.

 

 

Yeah, because I was getting annoyed in the summer at people twisting the argument. The midfield is our worst area but people were acting like you could replace all of them at the same time and that we had no options. Meanwhile, we have 8 players, which is a lot, and it's hard to add to that in numbers. 

 

It would have been a relatively simple fix on paper; last summer you don't renew Gini, as we did, and you replace one of Ox or Keita, and then this summer, you replace Milner. Along with Thiago before and the addition of Elliott, that would have been a nice succession plan of 4 changes in midfield over 3 summers. Pretty realistic. Except we couldn't do that for whatever reason, probably that no one wants Ox or Keita, and now it feels like we actually have to do an almost complete overhaul of midfield all next summer. 

[TheHowieLama]

We are in a really bad position when it comes to flops. Truthfully, we are one step below the top clubs in the market, but will still pay a fair whack for "proven" players and then have to pay them a "big" club wage.

 

If one, or God forbid, a couple do not pan out it decimates our meagre transfer kitty and because of the wages they are on and the fees we have paid they are near unflushable.

[Harry Squatter]

[Jairzinho]

1 hour ago, TheHowieLama said:

Cannae sell what no one wants.

[TheHowieLama]

11 minutes ago, Harry Squatter said:

Looking at that you would expect something in the way of results from Norwich tbh.

[VERBAL DIARRHEA]

We have done brilliantly to do what we have done despite the cheats from the Shitihad, imagine what we could/can do if backed by this fucking lot, it’s so frustrating.

[TheHowieLama]

7 minutes ago, Jairzinho said:

Medieval Knieval

[VladimirIlyich]

3 hours ago, m0e said:

Aye.

 

We also need to bin off Mane. He's no longer good enough for a starting role in a side wanting to win the major trophies.

 

[SlugTrail]

1 minute ago, VladimirIlyich said:

 

I have been thinking the same about Mane, he still runs around and harries the oppo defenders alot but he doesn't bully.them any more, he trips over his own feet quite alot during games now as well and to top it off his touch has completely deserted him.

[an tha]

2 hours ago, 3 Stacks said:

Yeah, because I was getting annoyed in the summer at people twisting the argument. The midfield is our worst area but people were acting like you could replace all of them at the same time and that we had no options. Meanwhile, we have 8 players, which is a lot, and it's hard to add to that in numbers. 

 

It would have been a relatively simple fix on paper; last summer you don't renew Gini, as we did, and you replace one of Ox or Keita, and then this summer, you replace Milner. Along with Thiago before and the addition of Elliott, that would have been a nice succession plan of 4 changes in midfield over 3 summers. Pretty realistic. Except we couldn't do that for whatever reason, probably that no one wants Ox or Keita, and now it feels like we actually have to do an almost complete overhaul of midfield all next summer. 

This is why i have been advocating doing something in Jan if possible and then some more in summer.....its just not a good idea to try and do it all in one window.

 

Ideally we'd have started this summer just gone, but as you say we didn't.

 

I do wonder if the money that Newcastle will throw around in Jan and the resulting chain reaction that causes as clubs receive money will see us get involved.

[TheHowieLama]

Newcastle will not spend more than 40 or 50 mil this window.

[VladimirIlyich]

9 minutes ago, SlugTrail said:

I have been thinking the same about Mane, he still runs around and harries the oppo defenders alot but he doesn't bully.them any more, he trips over his own feet quite alot during games now as well and to top it off his touch has completely deserted him.

Maybe he has slipped a bit but the heroics Mane,Salah and Firmino performed were impossible to keep up and its now showing. Jota has been brilliant but our problem is not scoring goals,its a lack of a supply line to those forwards.

[m0e]

1 hour ago, VladimirIlyich said:

 

 

We had a big discussion on here about it, where my position was that I've never known a footballer in his peak years to recover from such a sustained regression in form.

 

I was happy we kept him and gave him another chance.

 

But sadly, it looks like I'm probably right.

 

He's been half the player he was for nearly a year now.

[SlugTrail]

1 hour ago, VladimirIlyich said:

Maybe he has slipped a bit but the heroics Mane,Salah and Firmino performed were impossible to keep up and its now showing. Jota has been brilliant but our problem is not scoring goals,its a lack of a supply line to those forwards.

Its really not, we managed 21 shots last night, only 4 of them were on target and 2 of them were from the penalty. At this level its fine margins that are the difference between great and exceptional, I just think Mane has slipped down to great since he had covid. 

 

The question now is if he can regain those fine margins to take him back to that level.

[Barrington Womble]

17 minutes ago, SlugTrail said:

Its really not, we managed 21 shots last night, only 4 of them were on target and 2 of them were from the penalty. At this level its fine margins that are the difference between great and exceptional, I just think Mane has slipped down to great since he had covid. 

 

The question now is if he can regain those fine margins to take him back to that level.

I don't believe the pen or the follow up counted, as they put up a caption shortly after when the keeper scooped that one out of the goal Nesr the post and that was our 1st on target which was after the pen. 

[Barrington Womble]

26 minutes ago, m0e said:

 

We had a big discussion on here about it, where my position was that I've never known a footballer in his peak years to recover from such a sustained regression in form.

 

I was happy we kept him and gave him another chance.

 

But sadly, it looks like I'm probably right.

 

He's been half the player he was for nearly a year now.

I think he's shown periods this season where he started looking towards his best. He's deffo slipped through this latest period of the season again, especially with his finishing. I think the reality is as it's been for years, we need divock out and replace him with someone who can challenge to get in the team. There are days when you just know mane won't do it and we never have the option to take him off. 

 

2 hours ago, SlugTrail said:

I have been thinking the same about Mane, he still runs around and harries the oppo defenders alot but he doesn't bully.them any more, he trips over his own feet quite alot during games now as well and to top it off his touch has completely deserted him.

I've thought he's always had that bad touch in him, to the point that I've suspected it was almost deliberate to draw the defender in and then have him off. The difference now is he doesn't seem to have the defender off anymore. 

[SlugTrail]

1 minute ago, Barrington Womble said:

I don't believe the pen or the follow up counted, as they put up a caption shortly after when the keeper scooped that one out of the goal Nesr the post and that was our 1st on target which was after the pen. 

Well my point still stands, we create enough to pretty much every game we play so creating chances is not the problem. Finishing them is though. With Mane having been out of sorts for 15 months  Firmino over 2 years and even Salah not firing on all cylinders thats where our problems lie.

 

This is all down to the fact we don't rotate the forwards enough due to lack of numbers and/or quality backups.

[Barrington Womble]

53 minutes ago, SlugTrail said:

Well my point still stands, we create enough to pretty much every game we play so creating chances is not the problem. Finishing them is though. With Mane having been out of sorts for 15 months  Firmino over 2 years and even Salah not firing on all cylinders thats where our problems lie.

 

This is all down to the fact we don't rotate the forwards enough due to lack of numbers and/or quality backups.

Personally I think a team that's scored 50 goals in 19 league matches, 17 in 6 CL matches (a supposed group of death at that) and sets a record for the most consecutive games scored for the club, goalscoring is not near the top of our issues. 

[Freddo]

Goalscoring isn't an issue for this side at all. 

It's the midfield. We need to stop having to rely on Keita and Ox. Milner also isn't getting any younger. 

We need a bit more creativity from the midfield and a bit more running power which we lost when gini left. 

[m0e]

3 hours ago, Barrington Womble said:

I think he's shown periods this season where he started looking towards his best. 

Mate, he was being put into an all time Liverpool 11 ahead of John fucking Barnes.

 

And that was a worthy discussion.

 

He's done.

[Jairzinho]

9 in 21 so far this season. So will probably finish the season with about 20 goals. From wide left. He's not the player he was two or three seasons ago, but I'm not convinced he's "done".

 

The problem with selling Mane is that it would be good to know if Firmino is worth keeping, whether or not Salah will sign a new a deal, whether we're going to bin Minamino and Origi, what we're going to do with the balance of the midfield, whether FSG would back Klopp if he wanted to spend really big, etc, etc. They're all dependent on each other. 

 

 

[3 Stacks]

Ideally we wouldn't extend Mane and Firmino, but we may have to for one of them or risk getting nothing for both. I always thought the best scenario would be; extend Salah, Sell Mane and let Firmino leave for free, which there's a chance literally none of that happens. Even so, even if Mane wasn't "done", it's hard to believe we'll get adequate value paying him a big salary in his 30's. And same for Firmino. 

[aRdja]

1 hour ago, Jairzinho said:

The problem with selling Mane is that it would be good to know if Firmino is worth keeping

We’ve known for a couple of seasons that Firmino’s cooked. He has never fully recovered from the injury he suffered before the CL final in 2019. Even at his best though, he was a level below our very best strikers e.g., Suarez, Fowler, Torres, Sturridge IMO. 

[Barrington Womble]

7 hours ago, m0e said:

Mate, he was being put into an all time Liverpool 11 ahead of John fucking Barnes.

 

And that was a worthy discussion.

 

He's done.

I don't think that was a discussion I'd have entertained! I do agree he's not at the level he was and he's unlikely to get back to that player. But he's not useless and is still better than most left sided attackers across the league. I would certainly look to put pressure on his position. We should have done it last summer while he still had 2 years left, which would have given us the option to sell this year. I think not doing that probably leaves us needing to extend his contract this summer. 

6 hours ago, Jairzinho said:

9 in 21 so far this season. So will probably finish the season with about 20 goals. From wide left. He's not the player he was two or three seasons ago, but I'm not convinced he's "done".

 

The problem with selling Mane is that it would be good to know if Firmino is worth keeping, whether or not Salah will sign a new a deal, whether we're going to bin Minamino and Origi, what we're going to do with the balance of the midfield, whether FSG would back Klopp if he wanted to spend really big, etc, etc. They're all dependent on each other. 

 

 

Firmino. Honestly, I know he has the odd good game, but when did he last string together 3 or 4 top performances on the run. Or was consistently at a high level for a couple of months. For me firmino is way more done than mane, but I feel we've probably replaced him (not perfectly like for like) with Jota. 

[Daisy]

Our wide forward positions require so much energy. They are midfielders and attacks in one. You can't be having two 30 year old playing there every single week. Salah looks completely fucked now as well