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Neil G

Go fuck yourselves FSG

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9 minutes ago, joe_fishfish said:

There's two points I'll take on board from the #FSGOUT campaign. One, yes they could have injected cash to fund Kirkby and the stadium expansion and reaped the benefit of having an increased asset value on the club, without falling foul of FFP, but that's not how they roll. Two, how is our wage bill THAT high, when the likes of transfermarkt estimate our total player wage expenditure to be far lower?

 

The fact that the #FSGOUT posters fucking hate literally everything FSG do or say just makes the whole thing much less credible though. The idea of giving FSG any credit whatsoever for anything they've ever done is not something they can comprehend.

Who are the FSG Out posters?

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2 hours ago, Anubis said:

Just popped in to say that, wherever you stand on FSG, I don't think people flag waving for a hedge fund are in a position to sneer about other poster's socialist credentials. Poor form.

 

For the avoidance of doubt, my position remains the same as it always has. While their interests and ours accord, fine. Where they don't (including transfers), hold them to account or at least vocalise it. Don't trust them, ever. Don't trust any football club owner, ever. Unless it's me.

 

Oh, and buy somebody in January, you cunts.

This.

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36 minutes ago, joe_fishfish said:

One, yes they could have injected cash to fund Kirkby and the stadium expansion and reaped the benefit of having an increased asset value on the club, without falling foul of FFP, but that's not how they roll.

This especially. There’s no excuse for this one.

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Just now, Jose Jones said:

If you have to ask, you’re one of them. 

Who are the #FSGOut posters?

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3 hours ago, dockers_strike said:

The timing might be because fans like you just bombard forums and social media with your repetitive anti FSG have spent fuck all \ have to sell to spend \ havent brought in world class squad members to sit on the bench scratching their arse in case someone gets injured.

Well it's a bit odd that he only does it for Liverpool and then blocks anyone criticising FSG. 

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2 hours ago, joe_fishfish said:

There's two points I'll take on board from the #FSGOUT campaign. One, yes they could have injected cash to fund Kirkby and the stadium expansion and reaped the benefit of having an increased asset value on the club, without falling foul of FFP, but that's not how they roll. Two, how is our wage bill THAT high, when the likes of transfermarkt estimate our total player wage expenditure to be far lower?

 

The fact that the #FSGOUT posters fucking hate literally everything FSG do or say just makes the whole thing much less credible though. The idea of giving FSG any credit whatsoever for anything they've ever done is not something they can comprehend.

We are never, ever in for the top world class players when they are available because we can't afford their wages, yet Man United are always buying them. 

 

And our wage bill is higher than theirs. How on earth people don't think that's fucked up. 

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So, winning the biggest trophies with some of the best players in the world is a model that doesn't work, but constantly finishing outside the top 4, playing shit football, changing managers every summer, and buying overpriced dross is a model that does.

 

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4 minutes ago, Daisy said:

We are never, ever in for the top world class players when they are available because we can't afford their wages, yet Man United are always buying them. 

 

And our wage bill is higher than theirs. How on earth people don't think that's fucked up. 

 

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29 minutes ago, Daisy said:

We are never, ever in for the top world class players when they are available because we can't afford their wages, yet Man United are always buying them. 

 

And our wage bill is higher than theirs. How on earth people don't think that's fucked up. 

The club has never, ever operated that way. united havent won the league for going on 9 years, they havent won the CL since 2008. How on Earth do people think united will be paying all their players bonuses like ours?

 

Fucking bizarre people rely on transfer market website for supposedly accurate info on player wages when all clubs submit audited accounts. Yeah, yeah, I know some people say you can put anything in accounts but people need to produce real evidence of malfeance by Liverpool to be taken seriously.

 

Maybe SW blocks you because you call him a shithouse cunt, FSG shill or just an outright liar?

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45 minutes ago, dockers_strike said:

The club has never, ever operated that way. united havent won the league for going on 9 years, they havent won the CL since 2008. How on Earth do people think united will be paying all their players bonuses like ours?

 

Fucking bizarre people rely on transfer market website for supposedly accurate info on player wages when all clubs submit audited accounts. Yeah, yeah, I know some people say you can put anything in accounts but people need to produce real evidence of malfeance by Liverpool to be taken seriously.

 

Maybe SW blocks you because you call him a shithouse cunt, FSG shill or just an outright liar?

 

You don't have to rely on transfer market. We simply cannot afford to go for top players because their wages are too high.

 

Yet our wage  bill is higher than a club who can afford it. Explain it

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The club does not have to provide a breakdown of its wages to the public. It could contain anything being paid to any employee of the club. 

 

The only conclusion you can take is that if the money is not going to the players then it's going somewhere else. 

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50 minutes ago, dockers_strike said:

The club has never, ever operated that way. united havent won the league for going on 9 years, they havent won the CL since 2008. How on Earth do people think united will be paying all their players bonuses like ours?

 

Fucking bizarre people rely on transfer market website for supposedly accurate info on player wages when all clubs submit audited accounts. Yeah, yeah, I know some people say you can put anything in accounts but people need to produce real evidence of malfeance by Liverpool to be taken seriously.

 

Maybe SW blocks you because you call him a shithouse cunt, FSG shill or just an outright liar?

He blocked huge numbers of people and did a seperate post about blocking them to make his point. Again not something he's ever done with another club

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Straight off the bat the problem with Transfermarkt is that it only shows wages for 25-30 players for each club whereas the accounts show the wages for all staff. Klopps wages alone probably add 10-15 million a year base to what random website's have.

 

Transfermarkt get's it's data from Spotrac and while Spotrac doesn't explicitly say where they get their football data from a quick look at the sources and affiliates page, for other sports, suggests it's an aggregate from a random collection of twitter accounts and newspapers. 

 

Infact Most of the information for these wage tables seem to be scraped from news reports at the time a player signs (or signs a new contract) and can vary player to player source to source.

 

A sportek table from 2019 quotes, for example,"All details of premier league club wage bills taken from trusted sources such as (Mirror UK, Football Fancast, BBC, Forbes Magazine, Soccer Blogger, and TSM Sports)."

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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28 minutes ago, Daisy said:

 

You don't have to rely on transfer market. We simply cannot afford to go for top players because their wages are too high.

 

Yet our wage  bill is higher than a club who can afford it. Explain it

We can 'afford' it, it's whether it's prudent to do so (or if there's a will to do it), though it's not just a consideration for one player in isolation.

 

If your best player is on £200,000 a week it set's a marker for where the rest of the players fit within the hierarchy, if you keep upping that ceiling exponentially then every new contract positions itself within that gap and drags up the wage floor behind it, it's partly why the club so heavily incentivises contracts for new signings.

 

You can see it on a league wide level in most American sports where agents will delay making a decision until the best few players have 'set the market'. Quarterback (and the top few players in a given position) has a slightly different wrinkle to it where the next player up seems to set the floor and every player after that wants slightly more.

 

 

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30 minutes ago, TD_LFC said:

Straight off the bat the problem with Transfermarkt is that it only shows wages for 25-30 players for each club whereas the accounts show the wages for all staff. Klopps wages alone probably add 10-15 million a year base to what random website's have.

 

Transfermarkt get's it's data from Spotrac and while Spotrac doesn't explicitly say where they get their football data from a quick look at the sources and affiliates page, for other sports, suggests it's an aggregate from a random collection of twitter accounts and newspapers. 

 

Infact Most of the information for these wage tables seem to be scraped from news reports at the time a player signs (or signs a new contract) and can vary player to player source to source.

 

A sportek table from 2019 quotes, for example,"All details of premier league club wage bills taken from trusted sources such as (Mirror UK, Football Fancast, BBC, Forbes Magazine, Soccer Blogger, and TSM Sports)."

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I guess the test would be to see how wildly inaccurate Spotrac / Transfermarkt are when doing the same comparison for other clubs. My gut feeling is that as a percentage, it's more inaccurate for us than for others, because the likes of Man Utd and Chelsea paying ~£40m a year less than us despite having larger squads and historically much higher wages is difficult to explain.

 

That said though, it could be than Spotrac / Transfermarkt are just as clueless for other clubs as they are for us. I don't know, I haven't done the analysis.

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24 minutes ago, TD_LFC said:

We can 'afford' it, it's whether it's prudent to do so (or if there's a will to do it), though it's not just a consideration for one player in isolation.

 

If your best player is on £200,000 a week it set's a marker for where the rest of the players fit within the hierarchy, if you keep upping that ceiling exponentially then every new contract positions itself within that gap and drags up the wage floor behind it, it's partly why the club so heavily incentivises contracts for new signings.

 

You can see it on a league wide level in most American sports where agents will delay making a decision until the best few players have 'set the market'. Quarterback (and the top few players in a given position) has a slightly different wrinkle to it where the next player up seems to set the floor and every player after that wants slightly more.

 

 

Man United pay several players ridiculously high wages yet their wage bill is lower than ours. 

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united's latest 3 months interim accounts show they paid wages of £85m in that period due to CL qualification. If that's extrapolated over 12 months, their annual wage bill is £340m which is higher than Liverpool's.

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2 minutes ago, TD_LFC said:

And ours is likely to decrease.

Precisely. And united's wage bill increased because of CL qualification not winning it. Therefore their final wage bill could be substantially higher.

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Their biggest problem is it's not sustainable to be smarter than everybody else in sport, especially when you're also not the richest. Besides the PR stuff they get wrong, this is what they fall foul to; they own two entities, Liverpool and the Red Sox, whose fans see them as the biggest teams in their sport, but they're not run as complete juggernauts, they're mostly run as efficient operations. Unfortunately, in sport, that's not what will win most often.

 

The easiest prediction ever is we'll tail off when Klopp leaves and yet people think they're geniuses for pointing this out when we won't have one of the best managers ever and we're going up against complete behemoths, some who don't even play by the rules.

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1 minute ago, 3 Stacks said:

Their biggest problem is it's not sustainable to be smarter than everybody else in sport, especially when you're also not the richest. Besides the PR stuff they get wrong, this is what they fall foul to; they own two entities, Liverpool and the Red Sox, whose fans see as the biggest teams in their sport, but they're not run as complete juggernauts, they're mostly run as efficient operations. Unfortunately, in sport, that's not what will win most often.

 

The easiest prediction ever is we'll tail off when Klopp leaves and yet people think they're geniuses for pointing this out when we won't have one of the best managers ever and we're going up against complete behemoths, some who don't even play by the rules.

The red sox have consistently been amongst the highest spenders in baseball.

 

They've needed something of a reset in the past couple of years because the previous GM stripped the farm clean in pursuit of star signings on big contracts and to get below the luxury tax.

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25 minutes ago, dockers_strike said:

united's latest 3 months interim accounts show they paid wages of £85m in that period due to CL qualification. If that's extrapolated over 12 months, their annual wage bill is £340m which is higher than Liverpool's.

And since then they have added 3 huge earners - Sancho, Varane and Ronaldo. 

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We are an elite sports club first and foremost. I'm not saying we are anywhere near it but there has to be a point when if the fans have a choice between always running a tight financial ship and on field success they will be conflicted. We seem so incredibly reliant on player sales to generate recruitment revenue what happens when we haven't been as smart in the window. Do we stagnate because we believe in the books always being balanced first or do we say the team needs investment in order to improve. 

 

Next summer as clichéd as its become is huge. wanting ambitious owners doesn't mean you want oligarchs or oil clubs. If I see them investing in the side with out the desperation to recruit the money back by hook or crook in the same window I may feel more comfortable in the fact we are just not some meat packing factory or retail chain to them. They are probably going to make a billion quid or more on us and its not all down to their smarts, it's the clubs profile and the league it's in too. Occasionally they'll have to take a risk now and then.  It's not obscene to expect owners to occasionally dip into their pockets if its needed, its completely normal. Again that's if it's needed, if the manager feels it's needed.

 

I dread to think how fucked we'd be if we didn't qualify for the champions league or when Klopp goes. 

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