Go fuck yourselves FSG

[Moo]

3 minutes ago, TD_LFC said:

Always stuns me how people will find the shittiest sources to try and justify a view point despite everyone telling them it's the opposite. Man City's published accounts has there wage bill at 351 million, and we know that because of the way city group is set up a lot of the staff costs are centralised and charged as consultancy fee's to Man City that don't go into the wage total so the 351 million is likely to be higher if it was accounted for in it's entirety by City. But sure because a random website says otherwise...

 

Michael Gove might have been right you know.

Do Man Utd have the same practices?

For years we've been told about, and laughed at, the wages they're paying average players.  And how we can't compete with them on this score right up to Sancho, and yet...

[Moo]

2 minutes ago, TD_LFC said:

Directors costs are accounted for in the filed accounts and come in at 2.1m with the highest paid director on 1.3 million.

Are these "costs" in place of, or as well as, wages? Is that clear?

[TD_LFC]

Just now, Moo said:

Do Man Utd have the same practices?

For years we've been told about, and laughed at, the wages they're paying average players.  And how we can't compete with them on this score right up to Sancho, and yet...

Utd pay individuals massive wages and will have a small group of players on more than any of our players (De Gea for example) but would assume that the disparity in wages is greater from player to player amongst Utd's squad. We have a far more settled team with more players on 2nd and 3rd contracts so I would guess the disparity is less. 

[TD_LFC]

3 minutes ago, Moo said:

Are these "costs" in place of, or as well as, wages? Is that clear?

It's wages, or 'remuneration' if you want to use the same term as in the accounts, it also includes pension contributions.

[Daisy]

Swiss Ramble is a cock as well. Just confirms FSG model doesn't work. 

[Moo]

7 minutes ago, TD_LFC said:

Utd pay individuals massive wages and will have a small group of players on more than any of our players (De Gea for example) but would assume that the disparity in wages is greater from player to player amongst Utd's squad. We have a far more settled team with more players on 2nd and 3rd contracts so I would guess the disparity is less. 

So their best or more high profile players are on more than ours, but their average or fringe players are on less than ours? The latter part of that is a big assumption. Most of their signings are high profile, even the rubbish ones, who would expect high profile wages. 

[TD_LFC]

1 minute ago, Moo said:

So their best or more high profile players are on more than ours, but there average or fringe players are on less than ours? The latter part of that is a big assumption. Most of their signings are high profile, even the rubbish ones, who would expect high profile wages. 

It's absolutely an assumption on my part, but it's not an entirely unrealistic one.

[Moo]

7 minutes ago, TD_LFC said:

It's wages, or 'remuneration' if you want to use the same term as in the accounts, it also includes pension contributions.

So we have a full breakdown of wages somewhere?

[Moo]

Just now, TD_LFC said:

It's absolutely an assumption on my part, but it's not an entirely unrealistic one.

I think it's unrealistic.

[dockers_strike]

3 minutes ago, Moo said:

So their best or more high profile players are on more than ours, but there average or fringe players are on less than ours? The latter part of that is a big assumption. Most of their signings are high profile, even the rubbish ones, who would expect high profile wages. 

United's latest 'interim' accounts show "Employee benefit expensesEmployee benefit expenses for the three months ended 31 March 2021 were £85.2 million, an in crease of £15.7 million, or 22.6%, over the three months ended 31 March 2020. This is due to contracted increases in player salaries due to participation in the UEFA Champions League and continued investment in the first team playing squad."

 

If that cost is replicated over the full 12 months, their wage bill is in the region of £340m.

[Red74]

16 minutes ago, Scott_M said:

Very good!

 

To be fair, it’s true though. I don’t really understand all those Swiss Ramble figures but I assume they’ve backed up what has been reported for months about our accounts.

 

Then somebody pulls something, I don’t know from where, about the figures from the Swiss Ramble not matching something else they’ve read etc etc etc.

 

It’ll go round and round in circles and then those who don’t agree with Swiss Ramble will just say the accounts are fudged anyway and claim victory despite showing nothing on the contrary. 

 

Going over the smallest details of the accounts is pointless. Nobody will agree on the starting position for the figures, I’d guess nobody really understands it all and it’s just a nonsense. 
 

FWIW, I trust people with more of a background in this than me. Swiss Ramble has a decent reputation & what they’ve written seems plausible. 
 

The bigger question is, despite no anti-FSG’ers asking it, if the FSG investment has grown from a c.£300m to c.£3bn asset, why isn’t more being invested in the playing staff? Given they’ve making c.£2.7bn profit, there is no reason why they couldn’t loosen their wallets.

What bothers me is the way they’re telling us we’re skint yet the wage bill after the players have been paid is astronomical. There’s nearly £200 million quid going out on admin staffs wages. 
 

I could go with it if 2/3 of our wage bill was for players but none of our rivals have got admin staff wages like ours. 

[Trojan1892]

I can’t wait for us to monitor the fuck out of Jude Bellingham and then sign someone from Hartlepool for 6 quid 

[TD_LFC]

Just now, Moo said:

So we have a full breakdown of wages somewhere?

Directors are separated from the main wage bill and the wages are broken by staff numbers, what you don't get is a breakdown of value by staff group.

 

So we know that the staff numbers/costs are broken down 

 

Administration, Commercial, and Other - 620

Players Managers and Coaches - 203

Ground and Maintenance - 57

(with a footnote of 1,955 part time match day staff)

 

and the total wage of £325.5 is broken down as

 

Wages and Salaries - £289.3m

Social Security - £34m

Pension Costs - £2.1 mill

 

Directors are then accounted for separately at note 5 with the £2.1 million I mentioned previously.

[Moo]

2 minutes ago, Red74 said:

What bothers me is the way they’re telling us we’re skint yet the wage bill after the players have been paid is astronomical. There’s nearly £200 million quid going out on admin staffs wages. 
 

I could go with it if 2/3 of our wage bill was for players but none of our rivals have got admin staff wages like ours. 

£200m going on admin staff?  Do we really have that information? On how many staff, 600 max?

[Moo]

1 minute ago, TD_LFC said:

Directors are separated from the main wage bill and the wages are broken by staff numbers, what you don't get is a breakdown of value by staff group.

 

So we know that the staff numbers/costs are broken down 

 

Administration, Commercial, and Other - 620

Players Managers and Coaches - 203

Ground and Maintenance - 57

(with a footnote of 1,955 part time match day staff)

 

and the total wage of £325.5 is broken down as

 

Wages and Salaries - £289.3m

Social Security - £34m

Pension Costs - £2.1 mill

 

Directors are then accounted for separately at note 5 with the £2.1 million I mentioned previously.

Other might carry a lot of weight there.

[TD_LFC]

Just now, Moo said:

Other might carry a lot of weight there.

Doubt the tea lady, catering staff, and kit men are on 150k a week.

 

 

[TD_LFC]

9 minutes ago, Red74 said:

There’s nearly £200 million quid going out on admin staffs wages. 

There isn't.

[Red74]

1 minute ago, TD_LFC said:

There isn't.

Well if the total wage bill is £336 million and the first team squads at £135 million then what do we have left 

[TD_LFC]

1 minute ago, Red74 said:

Well if the total wage bill is £336 million and the first team squads at £135 million then what do we have left 

You'd probably be best served not believing the table you posted as it's bullshit.

 

[Red74]

Just now, TD_LFC said:

You'd probably be best served not believing the table you posted as it's bullshit.

Fair enough. Wanna show me the right ones then so I can see where I’m going wrong 

[TD_LFC]

You won't find one, because they aren't published, which means the ones you're linking to are made up.

 

Our biggest expense will be player and Manager/coach staff payments like at all clubs.

[No2]

My understanding is we operate in a completely different way to Utd. Utd pay big money and then deduct when success isn't achieved, circa 20% if I recall correctly. We do it the other way so when you compare the 2019 season and 2021 seasons you should see mirror image of salaries between the clubs.

[TD_LFC]

2 minutes ago, Shithouse Cunts said:

 

What about the shareholder funds? seems they went from a deficit in 2014 accounts to a fund of 208,775 (presume thats mils?)

 

What exactly is a capital contribution reserve?

"Sums allocated to a capital reserve are permanently invested and cannot be used to pay dividends to shareholders. They are earmarked for specific purposes, such as long-term projects, mitigating capital losses, or any other long-term contingencies."

 

Stadium renovation, training ground etc I would guess, you might be able to throw the covid loans in there not sure.

[Barrington Womble]

1 hour ago, Moo said:

It does seem to be more and more likely that wages are the area of focus when we're wondering where all the money has gone and unless we ever get a better breakdown of that, then one can only wonder how much of it is going to directors including the ones who own us.

Directors salaries, while not listed do mention the largest earner. I've not looked at this year in detail, but last year the top director was not significant (or not on the scale of footballers wages). I might be wrong as it's a year ago or more when I checked, but I seem to remember 1.5m was the top one.

[dockers_strike]

16 minutes ago, No2 said:

My understanding is we operate in a completely different way to Utd. Utd pay big money and then deduct when success isn't achieved, circa 20% if I recall correctly. We do it the other way so when you compare the 2019 season and 2021 seasons you should see mirror image of salaries between the clubs.

United's interim financial report comments I posted earlier destroys that assumption. The increase in wages in the reported 3 months is due to 'contracted increases' in player salaries not salaries returning to previously paid levels.