Go fuck yourselves FSG

[Barrington Womble]

2 hours ago, aRdja said:

I think I’m gonna go with a “wait and see” approach this season, just to be safe. If we lose against Chelsea this weekend, then I reserve the right to call them shithouse cunts. I will reassess my position at the end of every game.

I wouldn't worry about that too much. And let's be honest, who doesn't think next summer will be big? We're keeping our powder dry for something. 

[Moo]

3 hours ago, FrenchEyeGlass said:

It's been a while so I would just like to take a moment to call FSG a bunch of cunts.

 

Before the creampie eating cuckolds swarm upon me I can't be bothered to have any discourse about published accounts, wage bills or "sustainability".

This is the Go fuck yourselves FSG thread so no explanation required.

Bunch of cheap bastards.

[VladimirIlyich]

It's almost as if they are prepared for Klopp to leave around the same time as the new contracts being given to our top players more or less run out. On one hand this is great,but on the other it puts more pressure on themselves to hire the right manager post Klopp. We need to enjoy these calm waters because it could get very choppy in a few seasons time.

[aRdja]

1 hour ago, Barrington Womble said:

I wouldn't worry about that too much. And let's be honest, who doesn't think next summer will be big? We're keeping our powder dry for something. 

I don’t want to call them shithouse cunts prematurely, just in case they pull another Jota before the window closes like they did last year. This way it’s a win win scenario. 

[BeefStroganoff]

23 minutes ago, VladimirIlyich said:

It's almost as if they are prepared for Klopp to leave around the same time as the new contracts being given to our top players more or less run out. On one hand this is great,but on the other it puts more pressure on themselves to hire the right manager post Klopp. We need to enjoy these calm waters because it could get very choppy in a few seasons time.

They are finished when he leaves. They will probably leave a mess behind.

 

I just don't see this cleverness everyone bangs on about? If they want to fund a rebuild next summer who can they sell? Unless Salah has a stellar season and they hook him on a new contract, he's the only realistic one we could flog, but we won't be getting anything over 100 million for him. The other could maybe be Trent. They are probably the two most valuable players we could sell that would demand a high price tag.

 

They should have built over the years. Replacing Origi, Milner, Adrian, Matip, Henderson and Firmino. A smart businessman would do just that.

 

It feels like the Nike deal, the trophy wins, the redbird investment have all been for nothing regards the impact on the pitch. A so called penniless club at the beginning of the 21/22 season. Laughable.

[Daisy]

Knob head inbound in 3,2,1..

[Barrington Womble]

45 minutes ago, aRdja said:

I don’t want to call them shithouse cunts prematurely, just in case they pull another Jota before the window closes like they did last year. This way it’s a win win scenario. 

i would be genuinely surprised if we don't buy someone this week despite how negative i am about these cunts who own us. it is a buyers market and we've let a few go at a price i am sure FSG would have preferred not to. i feel sure we have plenty of people on our list where the spreadsheet will say yes as lots of clubs look to shuffle what they have before the window closes and some clubs are just desperate for cash to keep their ship afloat. the only thing i think that stops it is it may be a forward we want and they will be keen to offload origi to facilitate that in terms of squad size/foreign quota. but this could be an absolutely perfect time to loan divock - his value really could not be much lower. 12 months banging in 15 goals somewhere might really raise his value for next summer and what's the downside? he's probably still worth 10m somewhere if he has a quiet season. i think if i was making decisions, i would be looking to loan div this window if there was someone we could bring the other way. 

[No2]

I think Klopps greatest strength is also is biggest weakness. His relationship and loyalty with his players stops him from being a total cunt when it's needed to replace someone like Origi. He's just not the type to make him play left back for the under 23s and eat his lunch his with the IT team. The squad would look great with anyone bar him in it.

[Barrington Womble]

5 minutes ago, No2 said:

I think Klopps greatest strength is also is biggest weakness. His relationship and loyalty with his players stops him from being a total cunt when it's needed to replace someone like Origi. He's just not the type to make him play left back for the under 23s and eat his lunch his with the IT team. The squad would look great with anyone bar him in it.

yeah, i do think there's an element of that, but it is probably what makes the rest of it work - there doesn't really seem to be double standards - which I am sure players see all the time (and vice versa). if you have a contract and you work hard, even if we want you out, you can stay.

 

but surely klopp and some of the others around him can have a conversation with divi to help him realise it is in his own career interests to find something new or at least find some game time and get his spark back to help him at Liverpool? I would have thought being a manager who can clearly manage the emotions of a dressing room and appears relatively close to the player can have that conversation? 

[Jose Jones]

23 minutes ago, Barrington Womble said:

i would be genuinely surprised if we don't buy someone this week despite how negative i am about these cunts who own us. it is a buyers market and we've let a few go at a price i am sure FSG would have preferred not to. i feel sure we have plenty of people on our list where the spreadsheet will say yes as lots of clubs look to shuffle what they have before the window closes and some clubs are just desperate for cash to keep their ship afloat. the only thing i think that stops it is it may be a forward we want and they will be keen to offload origi to facilitate that in terms of squad size/foreign quota. but this could be an absolutely perfect time to loan divock - his value really could not be much lower. 12 months banging in 15 goals somewhere might really raise his value for next summer and what's the downside? he's probably still worth 10m somewhere if he has a quiet season. i think if i was making decisions, i would be looking to loan div this window if there was someone we could bring the other way. 

You really think we’ll sign someone?

I don’t at all.

[Barrington Womble]

6 minutes ago, Jose Jones said:

You really think we’ll sign someone?

I don’t at all.

i think klopp wants a forward and I reckon they have a choice of a couple they believe they can get a deal on. i think that is why he has been giving Elliot games in midfield to put more numbers in there. but it'll need origi to go. 

[Jose Jones]

42 minutes ago, Barrington Womble said:

i think klopp wants a forward and I reckon they have a choice of a couple they believe they can get a deal on. i think that is why he has been giving Elliot games in midfield to put more numbers in there. but it'll need origi to go. 

You might be right on the first two, but I can’t see Div going anywhere, so we’ll probably never find out.

[TD_LFC]

2 hours ago, BeefStroganoff said:

They are finished when he leaves. They will probably leave a mess behind.

 

I just don't see this cleverness everyone bangs on about? If they want to fund a rebuild next summer who can they sell? Unless Salah has a stellar season and they hook him on a new contract, he's the only realistic one we could flog, but we won't be getting anything over 100 million for him. The other could maybe be Trent. They are probably the two most valuable players we could sell that would demand a high price tag.

 

They should have built over the years. Replacing Origi, Milner, Adrian, Matip, Henderson and Firmino. A smart businessman would do just that.

 

It feels like the Nike deal, the trophy wins, the redbird investment have all been for nothing regards the impact on the pitch. A so called penniless club at the beginning of the 21/22 season. Laughable.

 

Increasing revenue and reducing costs are the best ways of achieving it but it's not a sexy discussion to have because nobody is really interested in the business side of football despite it being so crucial to a clubs ability to succeed.

 

FFP and Profit and Sustainability haven't gone away (yet) even during Covid, they still exist with slightly different parameters (mainly averaging losses over the 19/20 - 20/21 seasons instead of taking each year in it's own right) so clubs still have to comply at a domestic and European level (be it legally or illegally).

 

Some clubs, like Chelsea, can gut there youth systems and sell a big player to Madrid to get around that, others can artificially inflate the the amounts they receive through sponsorships and have open investigations still pending, some take out massive panic loans to try and get back to the big table.

 

What most aren't doing is having transfers funded directly out of owners pockets and that's because there are mechanisms in place to prevent the kind of direct investment, that isn't spent on infrastructure and a clubs sustainability, that saw dodgy owners coming in promising the world and bailing leaving clubs in massive transfer/wage based debt (see Portsmouth).

 

Now there are legal ways around that, a club can apply for a voluntary agreement that gives an allowance for a club to make additional losses, over and above the threshold, provided there's is an commitment to cover those losses and the criteria for applying is met.

 

To meet those criteria a club must fulfil the break even requirements in the monitoring period that precedes the request or been subject to a significant change in ownership or control within the 12 months preceding the application.

 

Providing those conditions have been met clubs must "submit an irrevocable commitment(s) by an equity participant(s) and/or related party(ies) to make contribution for an amount at least equal to the aggregate future break-even deficits for all the reporting periods covered by the voluntary agreement. The irrevocable commitment must be evidenced by way of a legally binding agreement between the licensee and the equity participant and/or related party" AC Milan applied for a VA and were refused due to debts running into the hundreds of millions of pounds.

 

COVID has undoubtedly had an effect, and given we used our big ticket sale a few years earlier we didn't have that luxury to do it again during COVID, the Red Bird investment could never be used to fund transfers as it was never a direct investment in LFC and the Nike deal only increases our revenue it doesn't solve all the issues, the club are still expected to lose a massive amount of money in the next published accounts.

 

Despite that we've still signed Jota, Thiago and Konate in the past two years (plus whoever, if anyone, comes in during the final week) so we've not exactly stood still or brought in poor quality players they're just not 100 million pound players people want (or in enough quantity). Fingers crossed with fans back in the stadium it improves the outlook going forward and removes any excuses (genuine or otherwise).

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[BeefStroganoff]

25 minutes ago, TD_LFC said:

 

Increasing revenue and reducing costs are the best ways of achieving it but it's not a sexy discussion to have because nobody is really interested in the business side of football despite it being so crucial to a clubs ability to succeed.

 

FFP and Profit and Sustainability haven't gone away (yet) even during Covid, they still exist with slightly different parameters (mainly averaging losses over the 19/20 - 20/21 seasons instead of taking each year in it's own right) so clubs still have to comply at a domestic and European level (be it legally or illegally).

 

Some clubs, like Chelsea, can gut there youth systems and sell a big player to Madrid to get around that, others can artificially inflate the the amounts they receive through sponsorships and have open investigations still pending, some take out massive panic loans to try and get back to the big table.

 

What most aren't doing is having transfers funded directly out of owners pockets and that's because there are mechanisms in place to prevent the kind of direct investment, that isn't spent on infrastructure and a clubs sustainability, that saw dodgy owners coming in promising the world and bailing leaving clubs in massive transfer/wage based debt (see Portsmouth).

 

Now there are legal ways around that, a club can apply for a voluntary agreement that gives an allowance for a club to make additional losses, over and above the threshold, provided there's is an commitment to cover those losses and the criteria for applying is met.

 

To meet those criteria a club must fulfil the break even requirements in the monitoring period that precedes the request or been subject to a significant change in ownership or control within the 12 months preceding the application.

 

Providing those conditions have been met clubs must "submit an irrevocable commitment(s) by an equity participant(s) and/or related party(ies) to make contribution for an amount at least equal to the aggregate future break-even deficits for all the reporting periods covered by the voluntary agreement. The irrevocable commitment must be evidenced by way of a legally binding agreement between the licensee and the equity participant and/or related party" AC Milan applied for a VA and were refused due to debts running into the hundreds of millions of pounds.

 

COVID has undoubtedly had an effect, and given we used our big ticket sale a few years earlier we didn't have that luxury to do it again during COVID, the Red Bird investment could never be used to fund transfers as it was never a direct investment in LFC and the Nike deal only increases our revenue it doesn't solve all the issues, the club are still expected to lose a massive amount of money in the next published accounts.

 

Despite that we've still signed Jota, Thiago and Konate in the past two years (plus whoever, if anyone, comes in during the final week) so we've not exactly stood still or brought in poor quality players they're just not 100 million pound players people want (or in enough quantity). Fingers crossed with fans back in the stadium it improves the outlook going forward and removes any excuses (genuine or otherwise).

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I appreciate your thoughtful post, even though I still feel we are making excuses for the owners here. Covid is only a recent development yet they were still as fiscal as ever before it.

 

And it was great to read a post without resorting to insults.

[s(k)aturation]

 

A business can operate on two general levels I reckon.

 

Profitability as the No1 and exclusive priority, regardless of the quality of your product, provided it's at least "average" and sells.

 

The second is profitability, but moderated by a philosophical commitment to the quality of your product. Occasionally even involving "loss leaders" - you know, foregoing maximum profit and deferring to the maintenance of top quality product.

 

Sports businesses, given the involvement - mainly highly emotional and passionate - of paying spectators, should fall into the latter category - I think, as much as possible.  Generally measured by winning things, as often as possible.

 

Never been convinced our owners are committed to this.

 

And this idea that we're "skint" - when millions and millions of dollars in wages are involved, enough to make a small number of employees obscenely and insanely rich forever - I simply won't buy.

 

So of course, this isn't just FSG's or any owners' fault - the greed, the outrageous money commanded by employees.

 

That said, injury free this term and we could well win the League.

In which case, of course, Forza FSG !!!

 

 

[TD_LFC]

28 minutes ago, BeefStroganoff said:

I appreciate your thoughtful post, even though I still feel we are making excuses for the owners here. Covid is only a recent development yet they were still as fiscal as ever before it.

 

And it was great to read a post without resorting to insults.

Definitely an argument to be had that sticking so rigidly to the various versions of fair play is beneficial to FSG and that they could take more risks and still comply.

 

Personally I'm not overly concerned about the on pitch running of the club from them (or investment in infrastructure), for me the bigger mis-steps have been around ticket pricing and communication of things like Super League intentions rather than transfers. 

 

[Jose Jones]

Good post @s(k)aturation

You can tell when a company is going to go to shit eventually when the CEO says something like “our main objective is to create value for shareholders”.

 

If you’re a car company you’re main objective should be to make good cars that people want to buy. The shareholder value then follows naturally. Don’t put the cart before the horse. The horse might be able to push the cart in the right direction for a while, but sooner or later it won’t be able to see a corner coming and you’ll crash off the road.

FSG are obviously only in it for investment outcomes first, and we’ve known this for years. We just have to hope that they manage to employ another miracle horse when Klopp leaves. 

[aRdja]

18 minutes ago, Jose Jones said:

Good post @s(k)aturation

You can tell when a company is going to go to shit eventually when the CEO says something like “our main objective is to create value for shareholders”.

 

If you’re a car company you’re main objective should be to make good cars that people want to buy. The shareholder value then follows naturally. Don’t put the cart before the horse. The horse might be able to push the cart in the right direction for a while, but sooner or later it won’t be able to see a corner coming and you’ll crash off the road.

FSG are obviously only in it for investment outcomes first, and we’ve known this for years. We just have to hope that they manage to employ another miracle horse when Klopp leaves. 

That’s why I reckon if we’re honest, the ideal owners if your raison d’etre is to win, are the likes of Sheikh Mansour and Abramovich. They’re already mega rich elsewhere and all they care about is the glory. The amount of cash it takes to take a club from being a top 4 regular to a title contender is obscene. We got lucky that we had high value assets in Coutinho and Sterling. I know a lot of Liverpool fans look down on and make fun of Chelsea and City for being oil clubs, but if it comes down to a vote, and yours is the final and decisive one, would you swap owners with Chelsea? I doubt many would stick with FSG. 

[No2]

FSG own a business with half a billion in yearly revenue. If I own a business with that amount of money running through it then I'm asking why are looking for my personal money? There is £500m to use to run business and you're asking me to set fire to mine.

[Daisy]

Where's knob head

[Barrington Womble]

5 minutes ago, No2 said:

FSG own a business with half a billion in yearly revenue. If I own a business with that amount of money running through it then I'm asking why are looking for my personal money? There is £500m to use to run business and you're asking me to set fire to mine.

they don't have to spend their own money (although I think they should have done with the stadium). they can just relax the purse strings and if the club at times needs to extend it's revolving credit, it can. 

[No2]

6 minutes ago, Barrington Womble said:

they don't have to spend their own money (although I think they should have done with the stadium). they can just relax the purse strings and if the club at times needs to extend it's revolving credit, it can. 

There is a million posts on here asking them to put their own money in.

[BeefStroganoff]

45 minutes ago, No2 said:

There is a million posts on here asking them to put their own money in.

Theres a million questions asking where the money from all the commercial deals, the nike deal and the tv money/trophy successes have gone.

 

But all we get is "operating costs" which is not sufficient. I don't think anyone expects our owners to throw their own cash in but we EXPECT the Club to have money available to spend without throwing up training grounds, wages and bonuses about.

 

And btw those excuses have been about for at least 3-4 seasons.

[No2]

24 minutes ago, BeefStroganoff said:

Theres a million questions asking where the money from all the commercial deals, the nike deal and the tv money/trophy successes have gone.

 

But all we get is "operating costs" which is not sufficient. I don't think anyone expects our owners to throw their own cash in but we EXPECT the Club to have money available to spend without throwing up training grounds, wages and bonuses about.

 

And btw those excuses have been about for at least 3-4 seasons.

No there isn't, there are a handful of accusations from the same bed wetters that Jurgen Klopp is on the record as hating.

[BeefStroganoff]

38 minutes ago, No2 said:

No there isn't, there are a handful of accusations from the same bed wetters that Jurgen Klopp is on the record as hating.

If you say so.