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Neil G

Go fuck yourselves FSG

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1 hour ago, CapeRed said:

Off the top of my head Darlington, Chester, Macclesfield , Bury and Aldershot folded . Leeds , Chelsea, Coventry and Rangers all sailed very close to that edge. So I think FSG being fiscally prudent is not a bad thing. I also still expect a couple more incomings. 

Rangers were liquidated.

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25 minutes ago, TheDrowningMan said:

Rangers were liquidated.

True so I guessvtechnically they went down the drain. Think HM Customs did them in didnt they?

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3 hours ago, Trumo said:

 

Actually, the stadium opened in 2002 when the club was still sponsored by Walkers Crisps. The Thai owners and their King Power brand didn't come in until 2010.


Are you from Leicester, you wanker?

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The bricks & mortar costs should never be Klopps responsibility and if his budgets reduced because of repayments for these then it’s joke. 
 

The clubs value should cover this either by direct investment from the owners or they loan it and repay it from their own assets. 

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16 minutes ago, Red74 said:

The bricks & mortar costs should never be Klopps responsibility and if his budgets reduced because of repayments for these then it’s joke. 
 

The clubs value should cover this either by direct investment from the owners or they loan it and repay it from their own assets. 

It benefits them in the long term when they want to sell and also in the near future when higher gates mean higher revenue. We have a season ticket waiting list and we always sell out cup games as people who don't normally go jump at the chance to go the match. The demand was always there even before we won the CL and the PL. 

 

The main stand was allegedly going to generate an extra £25m a season and it has been open for 5 years. It cost £110m. Covid has fucked one of those seasons but the stand will be there for decades to come. 

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8 minutes ago, Doctor Troy said:

It benefits them in the long term when they want to sell and also in the near future when higher gates mean higher revenue. We have a season ticket waiting list and we always sell out cup games as people who don't normally go jump at the chance to go the match. The demand was always there even before we won the CL and the PL. 

 

The main stand was allegedly going to generate an extra £25m a season and it has been open for 5 years. It cost £110m. Covid has fucked one of those seasons but the stand will be there for decades to come. 

Exactly. I said earlier in the thread that improving the ground won’t have a detriment to the clubs value. Failure on the pitch will from under investment in the first team. 
 

The Annie road should have been done without delay. That excuse that we’d never see full houses again and it was best to wait and see was laughable. 
 

We’re the equivalent of getting a 4 bed repossessed flat in Mayfair for £10 grand, tarting it up a little and seeing it valued at £40 mill now and letting the tenants pay for everything.

 

Best buy to let purchase ever when they got us.

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Previous ownership of the club didnt pay for the Kemlyn Road stand improvements in 1963, didnt pay for the Main Stand extension in 1970, didnt pay for the Annie Road upper tier, the now SKD Upper tier or the Kop redevelopment. The fans did via ticket sales even if Sky's money would have contributed to the Kop.

 

Makes me wonder what state Anfield would be in now, never mind the Kirkby training complex, had Peter Lim been successful in buying the club. Gilette's bankers trying to recover their losses doesnt even bear thinking about.

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6 hours ago, Barrington Womble said:

 

Most importantly I would like to understand for a company that turns over around 500m, with a wage bill a little over 320m, credit terms used for the large capital investments, where does the money go? What are we spending it on?

How much is depreciation and amortisation?
 

Wages outgoings should really be pretty straightforward. A first year auditor should be able to follow it from GL postings through to cash coming out of the bank account via statements. What do you think they might have done to inflate the salary costs Barry if I may ask?

 

 

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9 hours ago, dockers_strike said:

They actually identified Jurgen Klopp as the man they wanted to manage the club after the King. What were they to do when Jurgen said 'No thanks, not yet.'?

 

I know you're not anti FSG but come on, who were they supposed to appoint? Despite what loads think about Rodgers, but for Hendo's red card (sure, it's hard to pin the blame on him, it was just the ill fortune to happen at a very critical  stage of the race), he'd have been the first Liverpool manager to hoist the PL trophy.

 

The owners have made some poor decisions over the years. Some hold that against them and see it as an indicator for a change in ownership despite the elephant in the room: who is better?

Sacking Kenny after our first trophy in about 7 years and replacing him with a rookie with a higher opinion of himself than Dejan Lovren was a bad move for me. As for 'identifying Klopp' I identified him before FSG took over and he was still at Dortmund. He was an absolute perfect fit and you didnt have to be a genius to spot that. I am not anti FSG,I just hate that our football club is run by a group of US hedge funders and that the fact they are one of the better set of owners out there just pisses me off that football is being run by these types of people,and much worse nowadays.

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1 hour ago, VladimirIlyich said:

Sacking Kenny after our first trophy in about 7 years and replacing him with a rookie with a higher opinion of himself than Dejan Lovren was a bad move for me. As for 'identifying Klopp' I identified him before FSG took over and he was still at Dortmund. He was an absolute perfect fit and you didnt have to be a genius to spot that. I am not anti FSG,I just hate that our football club is run by a group of US hedge funders and that the fact they are one of the better set of owners out there just pisses me off that football is being run by these types of people,and much worse nowadays.


Almost every top club would have been thinking Klopp was the perfect fit for themselves.

 

FSG deserve all the credit for not sacking Rodgers when they, erm, should have sacked him. They allowed us to regress just the right amount. Cracking bit of business. Hopefully they don’t pull the trigger on Klopp until Stevie has had his couple of months holiday. 

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16 hours ago, TheHowieLama said:

So in three weeks time the stadium is a "fail."?

 

It's a fail because it should be done already. They arrived at the club with a promise to immediately resolve the stadium issue. At that time the planning laws were just changing iirc and they sat tight to see what that would mean, which I don't think was either unreasonable or wrong and gave the low cost option to stay. However they bought the club with a realistic view that they were supposed to build a new ground. That was the promise walking through the door. I seem to remember the H&G vision was around 400-500m. Obviously you'd want to look at that, but there must have been expectation the stadium project would be as expensive as buying the club or more. 

 

Then what we saw was just cherry picking. They saw the quickest return doing the main stand and while they looked at the road end, just stuck it in the bin, with a view they weren't interested in building anything that would take 17 years to repay. It's a fail, because in 2010 when they bought the club, they commited to building a fucking stadium, then they couldn't be arsed sticking 7000 seats in the road end? And what changed their mind? The model spurs have used with the bars etc to enhance revenue to make the thing more profitable. They didn't bring any vision of their own, they just said no until the spreadsheet said yes, like they do with every decision they make. Well until the fans bully them out of it. 

 

And it's not like they're doing us any favours here, this is all done on borrowed money, the club is building it itself. 

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10 hours ago, aRdja said:

How much is depreciation and amortisation?
 

Wages outgoings should really be pretty straightforward. A first year auditor should be able to follow it from GL postings through to cash coming out of the bank account via statements. What do you think they might have done to inflate the salary costs Barry if I may ask?

 

 

Amortisation is in the accounts. I haven't studied it, but iirc the Swiss ramble broke that down to it's been decreasing over recent years (marginally iirc). But then that would be expected as we (as do all clubs) amortise new signings over the period of their 1st contract, and then if they sign a 2nd, the remaining is spread over the period of the new contract - and we've not been singing many new players (just minamino and a free Adrian in the last accounts).

 

But honestly, amortisation is an accounting distraction too. Just think of the cashflow. We bring in 500m in a pandemic year. We pay 326m on wages. So let's stop there a second for some context. So once our wages are paid, we then have a figure left that would run probably the bottom 10-12 clubs in the premier League. 

 

So let's continue.  Iirc, about 9 or 10m on main stand repayments and I don't recall the training ground debt costs, but let's say maybe 5m as it's half the price of the main stand and we repay over a similar period. So 340m. We probably spend a few million on running offices and replacing and maintaining pitches at the academy, training ground and stadium. IT costs should be next to fuck all. Let's roll all that up into 10m. So there's 350m. Every penny of staff costs is built into that 326m - so not just players, stewards, ticket office, IT, press, marketing, directors. So where does the rest of the money go? We pretty much sell to buy players - over klopps time I think we average net spend of around 20m per year. That's what I'd like to understand. I know why Barcelona are skint for example, they pay 3 or 4 players around the cost of our entire wage bill ffs. I know why Man United should be skint. They spend on fees and wages, plus pay dividends and acquisitional loan repayments. I know why spurs are skint, because they're not as big as us and they've built a 1bn stadium. There's just no logical explanation as to why we're skint - and the pandemic is no excuse as we're always skint. We're either not and we're just tight, we're maybe running the club badly and haemorrhaging money or something more worrying is happening. 

 

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12 minutes ago, Barrington Womble said:

Amortisation is in the accounts. I haven't studied it, but iirc the Swiss ramble broke that down to it's been decreasing over recent years (marginally iirc). But then that would be expected as we (as do all clubs) amortise new signings over the period of their 1st contract, and then if they sign a 2nd, the remaining is spread over the period of the new contract - and we've not been singing many new players (just minamino and a free Adrian in the last accounts).

 

But honestly, amortisation is an accounting distraction too. Just think of the cashflow. We bring in 500m in a pandemic year. We pay 326m on wages. So let's stop there a second for some context. So once our wages are paid, we then have a figure left that would run probably the bottom 10-12 clubs in the premier League. 

 

So let's continue.  Iirc, about 9 or 10m on main stand repayments and I don't recall the training ground debt costs, but let's say maybe 5m as it's half the price of the main stand and we repay over a similar period. So 340m. We probably spend a few million on running offices and replacing and maintaining pitches at the academy, training ground and stadium. IT costs should be next to fuck all. Let's roll all that up into 10m. So there's 350m. Every penny of staff costs is built into that 326m - so not just players, stewards, ticket office, IT, press, marketing, directors. So where does the rest of the money go? We pretty much sell to buy players - over klopps time I think we average net spend of around 20m per year. That's what I'd like to understand. I know why Barcelona are skint for example, they pay 3 or 4 players around the cost of our entire wage bill ffs. I know why Man United should be skint. They spend on fees and wages, plus pay dividends and acquisitional loan repayments. I know why spurs are skint, because they're not as big as us and they've built a 1bn stadium. There's just no logical explanation as to why we're skint - and the pandemic is no excuse as we're always skint. We're either not and we're just tight, we're maybe running the club badly and haemorrhaging money or something more worrying is happening. 

 

It’s pretty simple Baz.

We’re saving up for M’Bappe.

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On 27/07/2021 at 09:29, aRdja said:

I see, so you think the numbers are right, but you don’t believe the stories posted by LFC journalists around that. I have no issues with that. It’s the suggestion that they’re fiddling with the numbers, inflating salary costs, hand-in-hand with the auditors, only so that internet fans don’t get angry when we don’t buy the players they want is what I find laughable and QAnon-esque.
 

Like you Barry, if it was up to me I’d rather if the club was a multibillionaire’s vanity project, not unlike City, who could just keep buying expensive flops until they find the right player. However I’m in my 30s and without a doubt, the best time I’ve had as a Liverpool supporter has been under their ownership. I don’t recall another Liverpool team having at least seven of the absolute very best players in for world in the squad (Salah, Mane, Alisson, Virgil, Trent, Robbo, and Thiago) so no, I don’t hate FSG as much as you do. If they can keep it up, I’m happy for them to stay.

I think you meant  to say the best time supporting Liverpool in your life has been under Klopps management. 

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1 hour ago, Barrington Womble said:

Amortisation is in the accounts. I haven't studied it, but iirc the Swiss ramble broke that down to it's been decreasing over recent years (marginally iirc). But then that would be expected as we (as do all clubs) amortise new signings over the period of their 1st contract, and then if they sign a 2nd, the remaining is spread over the period of the new contract - and we've not been singing many new players (just minamino and a free Adrian in the last accounts).

 

But honestly, amortisation is an accounting distraction too. Just think of the cashflow. We bring in 500m in a pandemic year. We pay 326m on wages. So let's stop there a second for some context. So once our wages are paid, we then have a figure left that would run probably the bottom 10-12 clubs in the premier League. 

 

So let's continue.  Iirc, about 9 or 10m on main stand repayments and I don't recall the training ground debt costs, but let's say maybe 5m as it's half the price of the main stand and we repay over a similar period. So 340m. We probably spend a few million on running offices and replacing and maintaining pitches at the academy, training ground and stadium. IT costs should be next to fuck all. Let's roll all that up into 10m. So there's 350m. Every penny of staff costs is built into that 326m - so not just players, stewards, ticket office, IT, press, marketing, directors. So where does the rest of the money go? We pretty much sell to buy players - over klopps time I think we average net spend of around 20m per year. That's what I'd like to understand. I know why Barcelona are skint for example, they pay 3 or 4 players around the cost of our entire wage bill ffs. I know why Man United should be skint. They spend on fees and wages, plus pay dividends and acquisitional loan repayments. I know why spurs are skint, because they're not as big as us and they've built a 1bn stadium. There's just no logical explanation as to why we're skint - and the pandemic is no excuse as we're always skint. We're either not and we're just tight, we're maybe running the club badly and haemorrhaging money or something more worrying is happening. 

 

 

Accounts show

£63 million cost of sales

£496 million administrative expensives

 

Take the cost of sales as anything to do with match day costs and distribution costs for kits and merchandise and sponsorship/marketing deals. 

 

The wage total of £325 million is in the admin costs. 

 

So there's an additional £171 million in admin expenses where the public accounts show no detail on where its going. 

 

The auditors just have to agree the figure, the club could be using it for anything. 

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Ha ha this thread, honestly. You go from talking about accounts and lack of spend to the threat of folding simply because we want to see a few new overdue faces come in.

 

You couldn't make it up.

 

I mean ffs its not difficult to see why we don't spend, FSG protect their profit margin at all costs. Thats why the stadium is using Club cash, thats why we sell to buy. Its all about that bottom line for when they decide to cash in their chips.


Every decision they have ever made has FSG at the heart of it first and foremost. Super League, Tickets, Squad building, naming rights and on and on.

 

I mean for goodness sake has every one forgotten what they did to Jurgen last season? Utter disgrace.

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10 minutes ago, BeefStroganoff said:

 

I mean for goodness sake has every one forgotten what they did to Jurgen last season? Utter disgrace.

Apparently I have.  What did they do?

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11 minutes ago, BeefStroganoff said:

Super League? Eve of the Leeds match? Bus? Thrown? Under? Centre backs? Please help? Desperate?


Yes you are. 

The anger around the Super League is the biggest red herring off all time. 

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As for complaining about the pace the ground as been upgraded, Jesus.
 

I know as football supporters we naturally want things done yesterday, but they’ve taken their time as done it right. 
 

Complaining about this is literally clutching at straws. 

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